Ideas for Improving the Top section

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Ross B

Guest
#81
lets just hope that when the cup breaks, and the top section slams though the lower section as it hits the rivet ends on the inside of the lower section of the gooseneck and vang tang, that the upper doesn't do damage to itself, or the lower, or punch through the boat

this cup/plug just seems a little shaky to me, I still think it's better to use what we have now, and wait for carbon/composite/whatever uppers where the cup/plug/collar are just molded on
 
R

Ross B

Guest
#83
I concur

what we need is a 2 piece wing mast, that connects bayonet style, with a molded in sail track instead of doing the stupid sail sock, a Finn style gooseneck, and a molded on vang tang of sorts
 
R

Ross B

Guest
#85
tell that to everyone else, they don't seem to like it!

I've had that idea for a long time now, and it's nice to see that such a forward thinking individual as yourself Saw can agree with me
 
#86
But how would it be implemented? Are you going to tell everyone that they have to go out and buy a whole new rig to remain competitive? Where is the advantage for the average sailor? What will it do to the many Laserers who just club race and really don't care about going fast? Why is anyone who really cares about going fast sailing Lasers anyway? What's wrong with the pocket luff anyway - if find it's easier to take good care of my good sails with a pocket luff than with a luff groove. What about the extra cost of a more complicated extrusion?

I'd have no problems with a tough 'glass/carbon tube but if you want to change the rest of the rig, just go and buy a Moth, Finn or OK.
 

HECS

New Member
#91
If they don't care about going fast, they won't care about getting beat.
As Reon says, there's a difference between choosing to sail a slow boat (Laser) and wanting to sail a boat slower than your competition. Even the perception that your boat is too slow is a major hindrance to stop people improving.....actually making existing boats/rigs slower would be a real problem.

I'm probably typical - I got back into Lasers after time in cats (a type of F16, which is faster for length than a Tornado), International Canoe and windsurfers, but I'm happy to lose lots of speed to sail a Laser as long as my Laser is the same speed as everyone else's.
 
#92
I don't know a Laser sailor that has not broken at least one top section. If you are serious about your racing, you (a general "you", not a specific one) too either have already broken one, or you will. When you do break one, that would be the time to buy the proposed "better" one. Or, buy the new one before the top section breaks, and sell it, or make a boom out of it. Either way, sooner or later, a Laser racer will buy a replacement top section. If a carbon one was the only choice, it would be accepted, and we'll still have the sail to complain about. The logical answer would be to offer a socket sleeve for your current top section to fit in for about $20, and go to a better sail that would last longer, even if it cost more, which it should'nt.
Amazing, that the Laser is such a great, popular boat, but with so many problems that have been around for such a long time. I think the Pro upgrades have made the sail problem worse, since it's so much easier to crank on everything.
 
R

Ross B

Guest
#93
if the bottem plug and sleeve for the top section togther cost 16.95 (8.50 and 8.45) there is not way that this supposed socket sleeve/ cup/ plug would cost $20, you probably lookin at between $30 to $50
 
#94
I don't know a Laser sailor that has not broken at least one top section.
Also, I have never sailed owned boat where I did not need to replace the mast at some point (broken, bent, stress fractured, whatever - and on a fractional rig 38' it get expensive). Of course nobody likes having to pay for a replacement mast and repairs but are Lasers particularly bad in this regard. It certainly does happen in other boats as well.

Ian
 
#95
Also, I have never sailed owned boat where I did not need to replace the mast at some point (broken, bent, stress fractured, whatever - and on a fractional rig 38' it get expensive). Of course nobody likes having to pay for a replacement mast and repairs but are Lasers particularly bad in this regard. It certainly does happen in other boats as well.

Ian
i sailed a 505 for 13 years with the same mast....... also had two 125's with the same mast for 16 years.... when i bought the laser it came with a top section and a broken top section :rolleyes:
 
#96
i sailed a 505 for 13 years with the same mast....... also had two 125's with the same mast for 16 years.... when i bought the laser it came with a top section and a broken top section :rolleyes:
I sailed 5o5s and Fireballs for @ 20 years replacing a mast approximately every other year. We sail in a shallow tidal harbour and the usual breakage was caused by sticking the mast in the sand with wind over tide the mast digs in and the hull gets blown over the top. Whilst I have sailed the lased a similar amount of time I have broken a number of booms and numerous daggerboards but never a top section - there's your luck!
 
#97
but should sticking the mast into the mud count in this argument? under normal stress conditions a 505 mast does not snap (usually) whereas a laser mast under normal conditions can snap?
 
#98
but should sticking the mast into the mud count in this argument? under normal stress conditions a 505 mast does not snap (usually) whereas a laser mast under normal conditions can snap?
Where I sail "sticking the mast into the mud" definitely counts as sailing under normal conditions. I do see your point but having had no experience of top mast failure I am surprised at how often it comes up. I have seen them fail at open meetings but not as often as booms failing. In general at windy opens I have heard of far less instances of retirment through any form of gear failure than at regattas of other classes. Generally I think the boat is pretty robust but I guess I've just been lucky with top masts. However, after this speech I best order a replacement now!
 
#99
Where I sail "sticking the mast into the mud" definitely counts as sailing under normal conditions. I do see your point but having had no experience of top mast failure I am surprised at how often it comes up. I have seen them fail at open meetings but not as often as booms failing. In general at windy opens I have heard of far less instances of retirment through any form of gear failure than at regattas of other classes. Generally I think the boat is pretty robust but I guess I've just been lucky with top masts. However, after this speech I best order a replacement now!
dont get me wrong i personally think the laser is excellent ... i have not personally had a damaged laser mast either .. i am just pointing out a different point of view... plus i think that ... people might choke me for this ... the top section is not expensive.
 
Re: Top section

Clive,
The 'cup' idea would also potentially permit both sections of the mast to be made watertight - so there is a possibly capsize/safety/rig recovery advantage as well
 
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