honestly now, what changes do you want to see

Rob B

Active Member
#21
All the other boats travel on regular trailers wth mast racks. Again, harder to store, more expensive to ship, more expensive boats. The sail sock will never go away. There's always the Finn to satisfy your needs for a haylard and one piece mast.
 

Merrily

Administrator
#22
A halyard raised Laser sail has come and gone--the Radial M rig.

I'm really happy with the boat and don't want to see any changes in particular. I like the classes' glacial rate of changes. It keeps costs down in starting up and also saving with measuring fees, and we've got a great fun boat!
 
#23
There have been a few experimental 2 piece carbon masts made (full rig), with sail track, and simple locking device at the head, but no halyard. The system is similar to what a few classes use, with a SS ring at the head of the sail, stiff luff rope (plastic actually) that is pushed up the track.

Interesting concept, but IMHO, the existing system of luff sleeve and webbing is simple and foolproof. Besides, who is going to leave their $$$$ carbon spar standing up day after day, so having a sail that you can raise or lower without taking down the mast seems pointless.
 

Merrily

Administrator
#24
Interesting concept, but IMHO, the existing system of luff sleeve and webbing is simple and foolproof. Besides, who is going to leave their $$$$ carbon spar standing up day after day, so having a sail that you can raise or lower without taking down the mast seems pointless.
Not that I'm advocating it for the Laser, but the Europe has a protective system so you can leave the mast standing. After you lower the sail, you attach the halyard to a zippered sleave that you raise around the mast. It closely covers all but the tip of the mast, and if you wanted, the boat is small enough to capsize and cover even that exposed bit. I imagine the same would be true for a Laser on its dolly. The problem with the Europe is its expense (almost twice the price of a Laser, I believe), which is the reason that it lost out to the Laser Radial as women's single-handed dinghy in the Olympics.
 
#25
if you guys could change absolutly anything on the laser, and lets be kinda serious.... what would you change?



I know it may be nitpicky but I would like to see the change to modern adhesives to bond the hull and deck together. The one design argument to use very old technology doesn't wash with me as it does not make the boat faster and old boats for the most part are not competitive with new boats anyway. So why not make the improvement?

The other change would be an improvement on the forward edge of the top of the daggerboard trunk. a replaceable plastic insert maybe? the fact that older boats have been worn away at that point seems to me to be avoidable.

An integral bow "bumper" to protect from those rare colisions might be a nice touch and if easily and inexpensively replaced then those pesky repairs might be minimized.
 
R

Ross B

Guest
#26
I know it may be nitpicky but I would like to see the change to modern adhesives to bond the hull and deck together. The one design argument to use very old technology doesn't wash with me as it does not make the boat faster and old boats for the most part are not competitive with new boats anyway. So why not make the improvement?

The other change would be an improvement on the forward edge of the top of the daggerboard trunk. a replaceable plastic insert maybe? the fact that older boats have been worn away at that point seems to me to be avoidable.
WORD, we gotta be serious here, and be able to change with the times
and possibly use more eco-friendly resins and stuff?
 
#27
An integral bow "bumper" to protect from those rare colisions might be a nice touch and if easily and inexpensively replaced then those pesky repairs might be minimized.
what kind of material would the bumper be made out of?? would it be large and cumbersome, or be sleek and blend in?? I would prefer if lasers didnt turn into the bumper boat fiasco that is high school FJ sailing. (these FJs all have big rubber bumpers on the bow). Having the fear of a hole being punched into your boat by someone else's bow makes you a better sailor and boat handler...If you're really worried buy a beater and get good at handling before you buy a nice, competitive boat.
 
#28
If instead of the top mast collar and separate top mast bottom plug might design a one piece nylon cylinder to serve both these functions (and at a standard length to reduce bend variability). If this was then fitted inside the top of the bottom section semi permanently (just force fit like the bottom plug) it would mean that the top section could be 'double ended" (i.e. have the same top cap at both ends.

Advantages of this would be no fasteners to waken or corrode, Could end for end the topmast and rotate it to even out wear - and although you might have to buy another one of these 'cylinder' things for your Radial bottom section - once fitted hopefully it would improve the fit with the topmast.

Currently it is a great annoyance when switching from the Standard rig to the Radial in that you have to add or remove tape to get a good fit. Otherwise a bottom top section plug that is a neat fit in my Radial bottom section is impossible to get into my Standard bottom section. Sanding it down to fit the Standard means it is way too loose in the Radial.
 
#29
I am a 66 year old former Star (5347) owner that has been sailing since 1949. I feel that Harken blocks should be allowed for the main sheet and that a better two part block system for the travler needs to be allowed. The "tape" system used now on the travler blocks to keep them together is not really a first rate way to go. My proposal would be a small expense and would help us older sailers who lack the strength that we once had. The main sheet blocks on the Laser are out of date. This proposed change would not impact speed, only help older sailers keep going.

We own two boats 144123 & 135213
 
#30
Fundimentally I would not allow any changes, however I would allow the ability to source and replace various components from anywhere as long as those components did not have the potential to effect performance. For example as long as people are not adding extra falls on the mainsheet or controls who cares if the blocks ar Ronstan, Harken, Holt or anything else. If someone damages a mast section they should be able to go down to the nearest aluminium supplier and buy a replacement as long as its the correct spec ( length, diameter, wall thickness) and the fittings installed are the same.

Sails, foils, hull, and placement and style of fittings need to be tightly controlled, as they are. As well as the fundimentals of how the boat is rigged.

The beauty of the Laser is that you can take a 20 year old boat and this years boat and race and it's the sailor that makes the difference. As far as I am concerned it you want to start changing the design go get yourself into a Development Class not One Design.

And by the way if you are one of the people complaining about the cost of sails, when you start buying custom built exotic cloth sails for your new development class boat, you will probably wish you were still sailing Lasers.
 
#31
Fundimentally I would not allow any changes, however I would allow the ability to source and replace various components from anywhere as long as those .....
I think I would broadly go along with some of that - but maybe that's just because I'm unaware of some of the implications. I'm very keen that the Laser stay a strict One-Design, but it needs to be kept in some sort of balance. In practice I would think some expert advice would be necessary regarding what fittings could be "relaxed" and which not. For example, I could see problems allowing people to source their own alu tube for masts. Firstly, the bend characteristics could have a massive impact on performance (subject to crew weight, etc.). Also, when somebody buys a 2nd hand boat its nice to know that the mast is of a "known standard". However, that is a different matter to the manufacturer of blocks, etc.


Ian
 
R

Ross B

Guest
#32
yea, sourcing masts could be bad


but I see no problem with using what ever kind of traveler fair leads you want
 
#33
Point taken, however I was thinking more about the situation of when you are at an event and you bend or break something and it's not a matter of cost but avalability that is the factor to go out racing again and be within class rules. I have seen the situation of going to a regatta, breaking something and essentially being unable to continue, it is disheartening.

Hulls can be patched, foils for the most part repaired, you can often put a damaged sail back together with sail tape and be within the rules. but you can't fix a broken mast or serverly bent one, or boom for that matter.

This is where and why I would like to see some more flexability.
 
#34
Bigger rudder for a better balance between the foils would be good...

Although I don't see how this could be implimented, with some users on the original and others on the new, I guess it wouldn't work with hindsight...
 
#35
Bigger rudder for a better balance between the foils would be good...

Although I don't see how this could be implimented, with some users on the original and others on the new, I guess it wouldn't work with hindsight...
Well..The rudder is behind you. About the only way to see it is hindsight.

Speaking of hindsight.

if you don't hurry up and sign up for teh laser masters NA Champs you will begin June with bad hindsight.

Go here>>>
http://www.2007mastersna.com/
 
R

Ross B

Guest
#36
back on topic...

a bigger rudder has been discussed at length before, it might be around here somewhere

the views on it are pretty mixed, I think its fine as is, but show me a prototype, and my view could change
 
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