Heeling the boat to windward?

sailor327

New Member
I was just reading an article by paige railey in the may issue of sailing world and she said heeling your boat to windward slows you down. i always though this helped you.
 
it is slow upwind and on a beam reach

downwind and by the lee is fast (unless its planing conditions)
 
In Glen Bourke's book "Championship Laser Racing" he talks about it being fast upwind in medium wind conditions. He hooks his feet under the leeward grab rail and hikes straight legged to pull the boat over himself. I have tried it a little but it didn't feel that quick, just uncomfortable.
 
Heard the same thing for FJs and a few other boats. In medium breeze, when you can get it that flat, but not collapse the shape of the sail, it can be fast.

I've seen some people do it, and it didn't seem to do much, but people do it, so they must be doing it for something?
 
WestCoast said:
I've seen some people do it, and it didn't seem to do much, but people do it, so they must be doing it for something?

In my experience it helps you to steer (lower) without using the rudder (which slows you down). Steering by heeling the boat can be very useful
when it is not blowing very hard. It helps in maintaining the speed or momentum, because you do not "break" with your rudder.

Steering by tilting the boat is especially useful when sailing downwind in low wind conditions.
 
Heeling the boat over to windward while going upwind works very well when you have a competitor on your windward hip, as it throws your disturbed air further to windward.

As far as it being faster, in general, it's not the same as what happens with boardsailors. They are able to pull their rigs over to windward, which ends up generating some lift vertically (reducing the overall weight of the sailor and board), while at the same time heeling the board to leeward with their feet to reduce wetted surface. When you do it in a laser, the hull profile causes the boat to bear off. It's great if you are trying to head down for a short period, such as down the back of a wave or footing for tactical reasons but overall, if you try to sail a normal course it doesn't seem any faster then a boat that is sailed upright as you end up having to counteract the hull shape heading down with rudder angle to keep it going straight.
 
also, when the boat is heeled to windward there is alot of leeway because the centreboard is hardly working at all
 
earlier this year Steve Cockerill came to my club for one of those Boat Whisperer talks and he went over the affects of heeling the boat to windward. he said that when heeled to windward the shape of the hull is similar to the shape of an airofoil which gives the boat extra hight upwind. it all sounds a bit confusing to me but he showed a video of it being done and it was noticibly quick. some classes are already sailing upwind heeled to windward such as the rs300. the weight of the rig heeled to windward also helps to keep more power in the sail.

terran
 
Steve C is certainly knowledgeable, but what wind conditions was he addressing?

Wavedancer
who (at 150 lbs) has a hard time keeping his boat flat in anything above 10 mph
 
the footage i think must of been between 6-10 knot of breeze. and the rig was a radial and of a french sailer that i have forgot the name of.
 
The only time i heel to windward is upwind if someone is to windward of me then it gets the tip of your mast a little big higher or some and if im going around a mark and im pinching. If you heel it to windward just a little bit most times you can go up a little bit higher. Also downwind in light to medium winds you should heel to windward it helps ALOT.
 
I don't know from experience, but it seems that heeling to windward while going upwind would cause the boat to head up some, since the centerboard and rudder would likely be creating resistance and doing less tracking in one direction and the center of balance would move to the windward side of the boat. Also, there would be less board in the water to resist slippage, so the boat should slip more to leeward if it is heeled to windward. Can my hunch be confirmed by anyone with more knowledge about the fluid dynamics of the boat?
 
mattsterett said:
wrong, it feels and seems fast, but its not. FLAT IS FAST upwind

What about downwind? Seems lots of people heel their boat to windward just a tad when running. Is that faster? I don't know how they keep from an accidental gybe when doing that either.

Merrily
 
Merrily said:
What about downwind? Seems lots of people heel their boat to windward just a tad when running. Is that faster? I don't know how they keep from an accidental gybe when doing that either.

Merrily


heeling the boat downwind is fast until planing conditions. IN under five knots, you have to let your sail out past 90 degrees regardless of whether your are sailing by the lee to prevent the booom from falling.
 
odinsvitskjaldr said:
I don't know from experience, but it seems that heeling to windward while going upwind would cause the boat to head up some, since the centerboard and rudder would likely be creating resistance and doing less tracking in one direction and the center of balance would move to the windward side of the boat. Also, there would be less board in the water to resist slippage, so the boat should slip more to leeward if it is heeled to windward. Can my hunch be confirmed by anyone with more knowledge about the fluid dynamics of the boat?

As a kid in lessons we were shown the effects of heeling, first with just the daggerboard and rudder/tiller (no rig in the boat). Tie the tiller to the trav cleat so the rudder is straight, get towed for a little forward speed and then released and steer the boat with just heel. The asym shape of the heeled hull will always turn in the opposite direction of the heel, so if you heel to leeward, the boat heads up, and to windward, the boat heads down.

You can feel the effects while sailing upwind was well. Let the boat heel to leeward and you get a lot more windward helm, ie you have to pull the tiller harder (and add more rudder angle) to keep the boat from heading up and sailing straight. Sail perfectly flat, and the weather helm almost dissapears. Heel to windward and you have to add a small amount of push to the tiller to get negative rudder angle to keep going straight.
 
upwind, as said above, FLAT IS FAST. tho when heeled to windward u can point higher but it is slow,
 
my point ecaclty! if your tryin to squeez through a mark without tacking heel a little to windward its a little slower but then you odnt have to tack 2 times. like 49208 was saying i did this thing in high school sailing the other day... it was on a 420 but in general same idea... i tied the end of the mainsheet around the tiller and extention and then sailed normal.. it teaches you to antisipate*(bad speller!) the puffs and to let the sail out over heading up. its hard because since its just a line you can only pull to head down not push to head up so ya.. try it
 
sailor327 said:
I was just reading an article by paige railey in the may issue of sailing world and she said heeling your boat to windward slows you down. i always though this helped you.

Why would you think that healing to windward would help?!? That is the dumbest thing I have ever heard!! Anyone who sails a laser knows that flat is fast! DUH!!
icon13.gif
 
Merrily said:
What about downwind? Seems lots of people heel their boat to windward just a tad when running. Is that faster? I don't know how they keep from an accidental gybe when doing that either.

Merrily

Yes, heeling to windward down wind is fast but not nearly as fast as staying flat and sailing to the lee!
 
Fastbreak your just stupid... of course heeling to windward upwind is not a good thing but since this thread is about heeling to windward i was thinking of any possible reason you would need to. You cant say youv never cut a mark just a little to close and had to pinch through.. heeling to windward a little on almost anyboat lets you pinch up a little bit more. most people dont like to tack 2 more times. you might but usualy theres other boats around so it makes it harder.... ya
 
Fastbreak - i'll think u'll find ur prejudices against me because i sail a raidial are unfounded.

if you took anytime at all to read the other posts you would notice this topic started of by talking about 'paige railey' and it may have escaped your attention but she too is a radial sailor, and would quite easily wipe the floor with you despite the fact you sail with a larger sail and so would Steve Cockrill owner of Roostersailing.com he is a radial sailor, go and ask him what he knows
 
144679 said:
Fastbreak - i'll think u'll find ur prejudices against me because i sail a raidial are unfounded.

if you took anytime at all to read the other posts you would notice this topic started of by talking about 'paige railey' and it may have escaped your attention but she too is a radial sailor, and would quite easily wipe the floor with you despite the fact you sail with a larger sail and so would Steve Cockrill owner of Roostersailing.com he is a radial sailor, go and ask him what he knows


this is a very valid coment and this is a very user freindly website except when we get people like fastbreak who bad mouth other people.
 
ya dude i your getin a little cocky. its not like your in the olympics or some or just because your bigger... im 14 thats why i sail a radial.
 
fastbreak_1 said:
Yes, heeling to windward down wind is fast but not nearly as fast as staying flat and sailing to the lee!

Until you are planing or surfing you should still be heeling to windward while sailing by the lee.
 
sailordude said:
ya dude i your getin a little cocky. its not like your in the olympics or some or just because your bigger... im 14 thats why i sail a radial.

Hey sailordude, don't let it get you down. Fastbreak visited once and hasn't been back. Seems like he just likes to stir things up. This, after all, was someone who talked about "sailing to the lee."

Sail and be happy,
Merrily
 
haha ya i know it just makes me mad when he says im dumb and he thinks hes good... he just didnt read my post very well
 
im glad hes gone. this is actually the one forum i have ever been to that everyone is nice to eachother and helps eachother out.
 

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