Gym training

jeffers

Active Member
#2
Hi guys, i would like know what is the best train to do in gym for have the best performance in laser.

Thx!
Hi InfoNow,

We have been here before recently (with some quite lively debate).

The best advice I can give you is to get yourself down to a personal trainer and explain the requirements of hiking (even demonstrating so they can asess the muscle groups involved) and get them to tailor a plan for you.

My opinion, and do bear in mind I have no formal qualifications just my own experience and the advice from my own personal trainer, would be to focus on your lower back and abdominals to start with and balance this out with some cardio work and weights to build up your general fitness. Core stability is key, I do a lot of work on a gym ball as this works the core much more than using a mat (there are those who disagree but it has made a big difference to me).

This along with taking up a second sport (if you can) like field hockey or football (soccer as opposed to Amercian) to give you a good cardio work out.

Also ALWAYS stretch after you have exercised, I forgot once and boy did I know about it the next day!

I am sure others will ptich in with their own opinions!
 
#3
There is nothing like a good old fashioned wall sit to work your quads into shape.
Try and keep your knees at 90 degrees and "sit" against a wall. Work your way up to 5 minutes plus at a time and you are good to go. I also find cycling and leg extensions to help as well as the core exercises mentioned above.
 
#4
Squats:

Squats, hitting a depth below parallel (hip joint below top of knee), not half or 1/4 squats should become your very close friend. Twenty reps or so would be good. Twenty rep squats will eventually make you see Jesus, but they're good. Cores strength, as well. ANY gym program without squats is seriously flawed. Period.

Deadlift:

This lift is paramount for lower back strength (hiking, anyone?), and back strength in general. Really, it will improve your whole posterior chain, which, again, involves the hamstrings and quads. They will also improve core strength.

Cardio:

Cardio is important. You may choose to do some longer, sustained distance stuff, or HIIT (high intensity interval training) like sprints.

Core:

Core work! Besides squats, deadlifts and overhead presses, you can throw in some side bends and some weighted decline sit ups.

_________________________

I disagree with training on unstable surfaces, as this effectively reduces the amount of weight your able to use for that given exercise, essentially reducing its effect/usefulness. You can train your core by itself, no need to negatively impact another exercise's effectiveness.

Get an SMR roller to use after training and sailing. I use a piece of 4" ABS pipe. A softball works well, too, for the finer points.

Personal trainers are trying to sell you something, just like any other business. Be leery.
 
#6
It says to do that program every day. Where's the time to let your body recover? Doing something every day will bring improvement to a stand still.

Also, some people may find dips to be hell on their shoulders, so caution should be used.
 
#7
Squats:

Squats, hitting a depth below parallel (hip joint below top of knee), not half or 1/4 squats should become your very close friend. Twenty reps or so would be good. Twenty rep squats will eventually make you see Jesus, but they're good. Cores strength, as well. ANY gym program without squats is seriously flawed. Period.

Deadlift:

This lift is paramount for lower back strength (hiking, anyone?), and back strength in general. Really, it will improve your whole posterior chain, which, again, involves the hamstrings and quads. They will also improve core strength.

Cardio:

Cardio is important. You may choose to do some longer, sustained distance stuff, or HIIT (high intensity interval training) like sprints.

Core:

Core work! Besides squats, deadlifts and overhead presses, you can throw in some side bends and some weighted decline sit ups.

_________________________

I disagree with training on unstable surfaces, as this effectively reduces the amount of weight your able to use for that given exercise, essentially reducing its effect/usefulness. You can train your core by itself, no need to negatively impact another exercise's effectiveness.

Get an SMR roller to use after training and sailing. I use a piece of 4" ABS pipe. A softball works well, too, for the finer points.

Personal trainers are trying to sell you something, just like any other business. Be leery.
thanks for the good list of practical exercises. these can all become the core of your weekly workout. throw some other 'crosstraining activities' in, but always try to hit this list every week to keep the bodyparts that are being "laser abused".

what is an SMR roller? is that like those wheels with handles that you use on your knees and extend on the floor?
 
#8
No. You're thinking of an ab wheel, used to do roll outs.

SMR stands for self myfascial release.

This is a SMR roller (aka foam roller):



You can use a piece of PVC or ABS piping instead, though. It should be 4-6" in diameter.
 
#11
I tried to edit my spelling error, but apparently there are time limits on editing here, so that wasn't possible.

What do you do with it?
Roll on it, relieving muscle tension. Effects are noticeable immediately.

The link posted above is pretty good.

The roller is good for the back (upper and erectors) and legs to a certain extent, but I find that the softball is better for some areas (glutes and hamstrings). Less surface area = more pressure = better.

The IT band stuff would be of particular notice to Laser sailors, I would imagine, due to the usage of the hips during hiking.
 
#12
Squats, hitting a depth below parallel (hip joint below top of knee)
I would be extremely cautious taking this advice if you are new to weight training in a gym. Squats done incorrectly, even with a fit strong person can do considerable damage to your knee.
Deep squats done by an unfit or previously sedentary person with unbalanced leg muscles and/ or weak or damaged knees can be a recipe for disaster.

Getting fit for sailing will become a secondary consideration if you cause damage to yourself. Your main consideration will be, how soon can I recover from my knee reconstruction and will I be able to live the same active life I was once able too.
 
#13
I would be extremely cautious taking this advice if you are new to weight training in a gym. Squats done incorrectly, even with a fit strong person can do considerable damage to your knee.
Deep squats done by an unfit or previously sedentary person with unbalanced leg muscles and/ or weak or damaged knees can be a recipe for disaster.

Getting fit for sailing will become a secondary consideration if you cause damage to yourself. Your main consideration will be, how soon can I recover from my knee reconstruction and will I be able to live the same active life I was once able too.
Please don't spread misinformation like this.

Please.

Real squats (what you refer to as deep), are actually great for your knees. It's half, or quarter squats, where you do not go to full depth, that will hurt your knees. Stopping all that weight abruptly will hurt your knees.

Real, good squats are great for your knees.

Deep squats, when learned and performed properly, are great for anyone, even beginners.

If you are, indeed, recommending squatting any way other than to full depth (not even full depth necessarily, simply parallel or below), than your second paragraph would actually be more fitting to your first.

Due to Mark Rippetoe being such a highly regarded authority on BEGINNER strength training and (and athletic training in general), I thought I would find some applicable quotes from him on the subject. He actually posts and answers a ton of questions online. His books, Starting Strength First and Second Editions, are incredible.

Anyway (I've edited where necessary, as his language isn't always the best suited for a place like this):

This one pretty well sums it up -

Anyone who says that full squats are "bad for the knees" has, with that statement, demonstrated conclusively that they are not entitled to an opinion about the matter. People who know nothing about a topic, especially a very technical one that requires specific training, knowledge, and experience, are not due an opinion about that topic and are better served by being quiet when it is asked about or discussed. For example, when brain surgery, or string theory, or the NFL draft, or women's dress sizes, or white wine is being discussed, I remain quiet, odd though that may seem. But seldom is this the case when orthopedic surgeons, athletic trainers, physical therapists, or nurses are asked about full squats.
There is simply no other exercise, and certainly no machine, that produces the level of central nervous system activity, improved balance and coordination, skeletal loading and bone density enhancement, muscular stimulation and growth, connective tissue stress and strength, psychological demand and toughness, and overall systemic conditioning than the correctly performed full squat.
"Yes, if you squat wrong it f***s things up. If you squat correctly, those same f***ed-up things will unf*** themselves."
The full squat is a perfectly natural position for the leg to occupy. That's why there's a joint in the middle of it, and why humans have been occupying this position, both unloaded and loaded, for millions of years. Much longer, in fact, than quasi-intellectual morons have been telling us that it's "bad" for the knees.
(in reference to a bicyclist who seemed to be saying that riding was similar to squats since they both made your legs hurt):
Yes they both hurt, but so do burning your hand and burying your bulldog. The differences are actually quite significant.
The trouble with cyclists is that their training establishment keeps reinforcing the silly bull**** that all recreational athletes want to believe: at some point, all serious athletes go outside their sport-specific work to improve, and recreational athletes just want to play their sport and wear the clothes.
That's about it, I guess.
 

jeffers

Active Member
#14
Hi again InfoNow,

As you can see a lot of people have various opinions on training/getting fit.

Persoanlly I stand by my first comment which is to see a (good) personal trainer/gym instructor. If you are a gym member already then pop down, you local gym may have people there who are only to happy to help. These people (in my opinion) are better than freelance Personal Trainers as they are paid by the gym and have nothing to gain by giving you bad advice or asking for repeated performances.

The local gym I I use is operated by our district council (I am in the UK). They have several persoanl trainers/fitness instructors whatever you care to call them. They are all qualified and know their stuff. I have the same person who oversee's my programme and I book in to see them every 6-12 weeks for a progress report (or I can book in at any time should I want to).

If you are not doing anything with regards to fitness aside from sailing take it easy when you start and find your limits before starting to push them (the PT/FI will probably tell you this anyway).
 
#15
Jeffers,

You seem like you are happy with your personal trainer, but for what it's worth, I see the "qualified" staff at the gym I use giving out substantially sub par advice, day in and day out.

A lot of gym staff/PTs will simply give someone what they want, not what they need. Again, this is good for business. Using all the latest machines! Stability balls and all that jazz! People like this. People don't know the difference to say otherwise. How exciting is saying: "Hey. Come to the gym. We have barbells to make you stronger." It doesn't really matter if your PTs are employed/paid by the gym. If they're not bringing in any new clients, what's going to happen? Business.

Nah, they'll preach about "functional" strength, which seems to be the new, big catch phrase, and sport specific strength because it sounds good. What is functional strength? Is there such thing as non functional strength? Not really. What is sport specific strength? Is "swimming" or "wrestling strength" any different than "sailing strength"? No, because strength is the ability of someone to exert force on physical objects using muscles. That's applicable in any form.

I could sign up for a PT course with zero real experience, pay my ~$400 and BAM, I'm now a PT, working at a gym. I'm qualified and know my stuff. I have the paper to prove it. Hypothetically, if I were my own client and knew all the facts and background, who would I rather listen to? The new, qualified and certified PT me, or someone with 15 years of training and results, but no expensive sheet of paper?

It seems like a simple answer.

Over the past year, this stuff has become a passion to me. I read and learn everything I can possibly cram into my head. In this day in age, it's possible to ask questions over the internet and get answers from some of the best in the business. Simply, easily and cheaply (read: free). It would be similar to e-mailing Wayne Gretzky with a hockey question. I've done this few times (the training one, not Gretzky) and have received incredible responses. I also participate extensively in a forum dedicated to the subject. I watch seminars on YouTube. These things, combined with my own reading, have helped incredibly, and put me on the right track. I can't think of any other way I would have got there.
 

jeffers

Active Member
#16
Shatty,

We have been here before, no point going over old ground! You have you methods which work for you. I have mine. The PTs at my local gym are nothing to do with generating new members, they are there to provide as much or as little help as you want.

I guess I am lucky I have found a good gym, I accept that there are some bad gyms out there but would not like to speculate!

Cheers,

Paul
 
#17
Completely agree and I wasn't trying to. I hope you didn't think that whole post was referring specifically to you. That was only the first sentence.

The rest was just a personal experience tidbit.

And if you have found a gym with good personal trainers/staff, then consider yourself VERY lucky haha.
 
#19
I would be extremely cautious taking this advice if you are new to weight training in a gym. Squats done incorrectly, even with a fit strong person can do considerable damage to your knee.
Deep squats done by an unfit or previously sedentary person with unbalanced leg muscles and/ or weak or damaged knees can be a recipe for disaster.

Getting fit for sailing will become a secondary consideration if you cause damage to yourself. Your main consideration will be, how soon can I recover from my knee reconstruction and will I be able to live the same active life I was once able too.
Hi.

At the follwing link, below, to one of Michael Blackburns, PhD, fittness-blog-sides: Read at "No.:8" his words in the "()":

->"q.e.d." to what Sean is talking about...

http://sportstrainingblog.com/sailing/sailing-fitness-10-things-you-must-do

Ciao
LooserLu
 
#20
2. Recover Well. Use ice and cold water recovery practices. Remember that you don’t get fitter from training until you get a chance to rest and let the body rebound. You can recover faster for your next training session using recovery strategies like via cold water immersion.
Some people recommend making the bath really cold - 12-15 deg C (54-59 F), but I like it straight out of the tap (about 18 deg C/64 F). I sit in the half-full bath, cooling my back and legs, for 5-8 mins. That usually has me shivering so it feels like it’s enough. While getting in is hard, afterwards you really feel a difference by way of reduced soreness and faster recovery. Here’s how a runner does it.

I would also add adequate food intake and sleep.

Contrast showers feel incredible and I would highly recommend them to everyone. To take it one step further, quite a few pro athletes whose performance in training is adversely affected by the time it takes them to recover use ice baths as a recovery method:





3. Develop Your Back. Take particular care of your back. Sailors suffer injuries to their backs more than any other part of the body. Try to include exercises for your lower back and deep abdominal muscles everyday. There are specific exercises in my book and here is a video series of lower back exercises and here is a good series of abdominal exercises .

I really can't believe he only includes mild body weight exercises for lower back "developing" your back. Once you've adapted to using your own body weight, don't you kinda have to add weight to keep "developing", Micheal? No deadlifts, no reverse hyperextensions, no rows...

4. Have Stable Shoulders. Take particular care of your shoulders. After backs, shoulders are sailors’ next most injured body part. Sailing often requires sudden, strong movements of the arms over a large range of motion and these can trouble the shoulder joints. Serious sailors should include shoulder stabilization exercises as part of their strength training routine.

External rotations are great, and shoulder dislocations are excellent for mobility.

5. Hip Flexors. Alongside working on your abdominal muscles, work on your hip flexors. Most of the time when you’re Sailing, the hip flexors are in a shortened position so you need to correct that at the end of the day with some stretches . Hip flexor stretches can help improve your posture, help the muscles recover and participate in reducing lower back issues.

The 90/90 stretch is also great and this is where the IT band rolling from that link will pay huge dividends.

7. Whey Protein. If you need to gain weight, supplement your diet with commercial whey protein powders combined with a quality size-building weight training program (it won’t work by itself). Here’s some more info on whey protein by a good company that sells the stuff. There’s weight training information for Sailing in my book.

I think this is misleading. Supplementing with whey will not make you gain weight. Eating more calories than you burn will. Many top professionals recommend about one gram of protein per pound of body weight. This, however, is one of those subjects that a lot of people can't seem to agree on, though the aforementioned amount is generally thought to be a good starting point.

I general, I think he's putting too much emphasis on the use of supplemental protein.

8. Be Scientific. Keep quality records of your fitness. The aim here is to find out what works through trial and error (hopefully not so much error). Body weight is the first thing you should keep track of over the long term. After that, think of tests you can apply to yourself to measure your fitness for Sailing. (You might start with the home fitness tests in my book (but don’t do the wall sit - it can hurt the knees).
I have a master spreadsheet with 10 years of my results from time trials in cycling, rowing machine, pool running, and even surf ski paddling. It’s great to be able to look back and see the improvements.

Anyone who steps foot in a gym should not do so without a log book.
My thoughts in red.
 
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