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Forum organization

Would you like to see Sunfish Talk broken into two sections: 'Sailing' and 'Repairs'?

  • Yes

    Votes: 16 53.3%
  • No

    Votes: 14 46.7%

  • Total voters
    30

NightSailor

Captain
I think we need to break out the forum into different discussion areas.

Sugested areas would be:

Sunfish Repair

Older Sunfishes--Pre-1970

Racing Sunfishes

Group gatherings


"Sunfish Talk" is too broad a category.
 

DanB

Crabber
I think we need to break out the forum into different discussion areas.

“We” – didn’t you just get off the bus day before yesterday, Spanky? Kick back, pop open a beer and take in the sights for awhile. If you look around a little you’ll see Bradley - Forum webmaster - is already in the middle of reorganizing the whole board. What’s not evident is the job encompasses Sunfish and Laser - no small task for one person who can't find good help ;), works mainly alone, and does it all for free.

- so while your relaxing with your beer, flip through a copy of The Sunfish Bible. Your general knowledge looks good, but your Sunfish specific knowledge is a tad lacking. The past couple of days have just been a small smattering of early season newbies. Don’t burn yourself out early, in another month or so things are likely to really start hopping.

Sugested areas would be:

Sunfish Repair

Older Sunfishes--Pre-1970

Your plumber’s crack is showing -:eek:- the divisions are, 1952 to 1960, 1960 to 1972, 1972 to 1986, and 1986 to present, with the most significant change since the transition from wood to fiberglass coming between 1971 and 1972.


Racing Sunfishes

Group gatherings


"Sunfish Talk" is too broad a category.
 

NightSailor

Captain
I think we need to break out the forum into different discussion areas.

“We” – didn’t you just get off the bus day before yesterday, Spanky? Kick back, pop open a beer and take in the sights for awhile. If you look around a little you’ll see Bradley - Forum webmaster - is already in the middle of reorganizing the whole board. What’s not evident is the job encompasses Sunfish and Laser - no small task for one person who can't find good help ;), works mainly alone, and does it all for free.

- so while your relaxing with your beer, flip through a copy of The Sunfish Bible. Your general knowledge looks good, but your Sunfish specific knowledge is a tad lacking. The past couple of days have just been a small smattering of early season newbies. Don’t burn yourself out early, in another month or so things are likely to really start hopping.

Sugested areas would be:

Sunfish Repair

Older Sunfishes--Pre-1970

Your plumber’s crack is showing -:eek:- the divisions are, 1952 to 1960, 1960 to 1972, 1972 to 1986, and 1986 to present, with the most significant change since the transition from wood to fiberglass coming between 1971 and 1972.


Racing Sunfishes

Group gatherings


"Sunfish Talk" is too broad a category.


My name isn't Spanky, and I don't drink beer. What I do, is sail, professionally, 100-150 days a year, world-wide.

This form is poorly organized. I'm offering a polite suggestion to improve it.

Look at forums like MacRumors which have intelligently defined branches. And guess what, they don't shoot the messenger when someone suggests splitting discussions into sub-topics. What do they do? They put up a poll and give the matter some thought.

I have no plumbers crack. I chose 1971 because that is as good as a place as any to split the discussion related to years. Pick another division if you like. However, too many divisions don't make sense. Just as two divisions for all Sunfish Talk makes no sense.

I don't expect there to be much discussion of wooden Sunfishes--do you? An empty Forum area serves no purpose. If you want to discuss the various divisions of Sunfish production start your own thread.

Think about this logically--2000 threads in Sunfish Discussion only serves to bury and kill topics.

You on the other hand, choose to attack the messenger. It shows immaturity, and an inability to put together a cogent argument.

The Laser Forum is even worse--and yes I noticed that also. It has over 4000 topics under discussions. This is not a tree structure. The tree has fallen over from all the weight on one side.

My overall impression is this could be a great Forum. The software is good. The participation is low, and I think it could be improved, and increase traffic by breaking the discussion areas down into more areas.

It should not be all that difficult to create new topic areas, and port over discussions.
 

lava

Member
My .o2$, This form has been a great source of info. Nightsailor, you may be an experanced sailor, but your tact is lacking. If you have a true wish too improve the sight, make a privet suggestion to the webmaster. I've been a member for 18 mo. people are always friendly and helpful, we should sail in waves not.....
Just my .02$, Mike
 

NightSailor

Captain
My .o2$, This form has been a great source of info. Nightsailor, you may be an experanced sailor, but your tact is lacking. If you have a true wish too improve the sight, make a privet suggestion to the webmaster. I've been a member for 18 mo. people are always friendly and helpful, we should sail in waves not.....
Just my .02$, Mike

Read it over again Mike. I was not name calling, someone else was calling me names. I made a suggestion. It makes sense. If I wanted to be rude, I'd make comments like spelling "Site" and "Private", but I don't care about that. This is the sort of response I'm getting for pointing out the obvious. I have not read one constructive comment to my suggestion yet.

I don't think it should be private, I think this is a topic that bears discussion and examination--or perhaps a poll.

Why do I have to hunt up the webmaster? Why has he not stepped in to comment? Perhaps he wants to stir up debate on this topic. Perhaps he has already responded through a sock puppet.

If I were running this board, my objective would be to increase participation. I would make changes that would achieve that objective. I would want everyone to participate in discussions about changes. I can do that without name calling. I can do better than that, I can stay on topic.

Don't you think it make sense to separate areas for repairs and racing for example? That would cut the number of threads down in half. I think it needs even more separation. Separation would create more new topics. It would grow interest, if anything. I'd like to see a racing area, and be able to ask these folks some specific questions.

Do you think 2000 topics in one area is too much? I do. 4000? I do.

What ideas do you have for new topic areas?

I'd like to see a Connecticut Sunfish area, but there may not be enough people for that, perhaps a New England topic area.

If you have something constructive to offer, then lets hear it. Unlike everyone else, I promise not to shoot back
.
 

beldar boathead

Well-Known Member
Worlds Qualifying

I assume NightSailor was wondering about Worlds Qualification. Strange that it is hard (impossible??) to find on sunfishclass.org. Perhaps the class office cannot find it either!?

In any event, the winners of each regional championship qualify for the following year's worlds, I believe the top 3 at the midwinters, top 7 at the NAs, and then perhaps the woman's NA champion as well and maybe one or two others.

I think the Sunfish regatta schedule is pretty well organized - I am sure there are local clubs that don't publicize their events too well - maybe even by choice. Hopefully you can find a few events to squeeze into your free days between all the professional sailing.

BB
 

NightSailor

Captain
Re: Worlds Qualifying

I assume NightSailor was wondering about Worlds Qualification. Strange that it is hard (impossible??) to find on sunfishclass.org. Perhaps the class office cannot find it either!?

In any event, the winners of each regional championship qualify for the following year's worlds, I believe the top 3 at the midwinters, top 7 at the NAs, and then perhaps the woman's NA champion as well and maybe one or two others.

I think the Sunfish regatta schedule is pretty well organized - I am sure there are local clubs that don't publicize their events too well - maybe even by choice. Hopefully you can find a few events to squeeze into your free days between all the professional sailing.

BB

I'm more curious than anything. I don't expect to have time for this.

Interesting. So how many from area regional's can qualify for the the NA's? And are there any requirements to qualify for Regionals?

If you can point me to any relevant links I'd appreciate it. I looked in quite a few PDF, which I have to download to open efficiently. It is a silly amount of work for simple information. It is the sort of thing everyone who races in the class would know. Strange it is not in print that I could find.
 

NightSailor

Captain
New England Sunfish Regional Website

I assume NightSailor was wondering about Worlds Qualification. Strange that it is hard (impossible??) to find on sunfishclass.org. Perhaps the class office cannot find it either!?

BB
Here for your amusement, the New England Sunfish Regional Website, with all sorts of good information for people in my area.

I think the smart thing to do is get myself a Porty Waterdog. This website will be a big help.

This is no joke, try the link yourself.


 

fbjru

Member
It may be hard to find because there is no qualifications for Regionals and NA's. One needs only be a member of the Sunfish Class. Among other places this information can be found under eligibility in these regattas NORs.
 

fbjru

Member
The link on the sunfish class website sent me here:

http://www.sunfishclass.org/~newengland/blog/

No problems.

You should probably tread lightly on this forum. It is difficult to respect a newcomer who has hardly been around a month and is already complaining and making suggestions like he is the expert.
If you have a question, search the forum, the yahoo group, and the website. If you still havnt found your answer kindly ask your question and graciously accept the advice of those who have been around the block.

Just curios how long have you been sailing sunfish and in what boats do you have experience?
 

NightSailor

Captain
More on Sunfish Lack of Organization

No information except Dog Food at the New England Sunfish website. So I tried the New York web site, which is pretty close to me here in Connecticut.

I looked for a race that was within a few hours drive at a time when I might be able to attend. I though a nice local race might be fun. I found it right near the top of the list.

I picked the Lake Placid race on June 7th under Upcoming Regatta.



Then I tried the link for more information like where to stay, Notice of Race, and Sailing Instructions. Here is what I found. Nothing....



Then I noticed that race was for 2008. Everything is exactly one year out of date at the New York Sunfish Website. It is all confusing as heck, but I give them credit for having a working website--even if it is confusing and useless.

Yacht Clubs have their schedules put together by now. Since the Sunfish class has frostbiting and winter events, I'd think it would be kept up to date pretty much all the time. Instead it is hit or miss. I honestly rate the organization very low, and I'm not talking about this forum now, but the Sunfish Class itself. I rate the class itself at the Regional level to be dead last among all of the sailing classes in the world. I've never seen anything so poorly run. If you are honest you will agree with me--I've shown you the proof. So when I ask a few questions of the Class organization, and they blow me off, what should I think?

It is all one big joke. I wish I could laugh. The ISCA needs to be embarrassed into fixing itself. Can you imagine how great the class would be if the made it easy for someone new coming along to get into racing? The boats are cheap. The costs are low, except new people who are not associated with a yacht club that sponsors races, never find out what they need to know.

Why would I join a class, if I had to pay and then spend all my time doing the work organizing things to make it happen. What I'm paying for? Pay for what? Pay for nothing? It makes no sense to me. It is like selling ice to Eskimo's. I'd sign up and fix things if they would compensate me somehow, but I already know the answer to that.

I did find a pdf file with all the big events. Why don't they publish the smaller events at the same time? My dog runs around in circles--I know the feeling.

So I give up. I will have to organize my own local event if I want to go to one. I might as well make it independent of the class. It will be more fun to just go sailing with my friends, and anyone local who is interested.
 

NightSailor

Captain
The link on the sunfish class website sent me here:

http://www.sunfishclass.org/~newengland/blog/

No problems.

You should probably tread lightly on this forum. It is difficult to respect a newcomer who has hardly been around a month and is already complaining and making suggestions like he is the expert.
If you have a question, search the forum, the yahoo group, and the website. If you still havnt found your answer kindly ask your question and graciously accept the advice of those who have been around the block.

Just curios how long have you been sailing sunfish and in what boats do you have experience?


Curious.

I went to the Sunfish US website and then to the New England website. Did you try that link? Dog Food!

If I am wrong, I'll be the first to admit it. If I point out the obvious, and people want to attack me, so be it. I'm not sure how you found that New England Sunfish website. Thanks for that.

Frankly, I don't like everyone telling me to shut up. No one has addressed my original question. It makes sense to split the forum up into relevant topics. No one wants to talk about that. Every one wants to pile on me. I've seen how other forums work. What is wrong with my original question? I don't need to be an expert on Sunfishes or sailing to make a comment on how the forum can be improved.

Every place I've ever gone, with the exception of England, there has been some sort of entrenched group of sailors I meet that think they know everything. Sailors like a pecking order. I chose not to participate in that. When I was 8 years old, and learned how to trim a jib, my skippers would think I did it wrong, even after I learned to do it perfectly. I was bashed only because I was younger than all the other kids in the sailing program. I learned that people often are critical of others even when those others are right. It doesn't mean you should do it wrong.

I don't have a need for anyone's respect. I'd have it, as a matter of course, after you talked to me for 10 minutes on sailing, or in the first ten minutes onboard. People always want me onboard, they beg me to sail with them, and they pay my airfare to really nice places, and give me free rides, just to be sure nothing goes wrong. This year, I've been invited, along with my family, to sail the Greek Islands for a month, by one of the best sailors in the world. Ask yourself why.

When you have a closed mind you are limiting yourself, and what you can learn. For some reason many sailors are that way. Being open-minded is the key to being a good sailor. You need to have an attitude that you can learn from everyone you meet. That has been my goal for many years. Sometimes all you learn is only how to get along better, or how to communicate better onboard. Command skills are good to have. If you want my respect, teach me something I don't already know.

Most people I meet have knowledge like Swiss cheese--full of holes, pretending to know more than they do. I can spot them a mile away. Some know a lot about a narrow little area. I don't have many holes in my knowledge. I could improve in a few areas--I know what they are and I'm still studying--I always will. If you want to test me ask me any question.

To answer your questions:

I've sailed on Sunfishes since the 2002 season. I've taught on them a few weeks a year for the last two years. It was the most fun work I've ever had. I like them for exploring the little islands near me that I'd normally need an inflatable to get to. I also like to plane in high winds. Fast is fun.

Sailboats Sailed: [92 types]
28' Sailing Canoe
5o5 (Parker)
42' Ketch
48' Custom Catamarran
84' LOA Schooner
135’ LOA Schooner
Alden schooner 72'
Alerion 28
Baltic 38
Bavaria 36
Beneteau 310
Beneteau 33.7
Beneteau 35
Beneteau 40.7
Beneteau 432
Beneteau First 435
Beneteau 47.7
Blue Jay
Bristol 34
Bristol 35.5
Brewer 44
Capri 22
Catalina 22
Catalina 25
Catalina 27
Catalina 30
Catalina 34
Clipper 60
Colgate 26
Columbia 21
C&C 32
Dubois 68
Dufour Classic 36
Dufour 40
Ensign
Ericson 35
Ericson 46
Etchells
Express 37
Freedom 36 Cat-Ketch
Hanse 311
Hanse 320
Hanse 400
Harpoon 6.2
Hobie 16
Hobie 17
Hobie Miracle 21
Hunter 34
Hunter 376
Ideal 18
Islander 40
J-24
J-37
J-44
J-80
J-105
J-109
J-120
JY-15
Jeanneau 362
Jeanneau 452
Knarr
Landfall 34
Lark
Laser
Lightning
Mercury
Merit 25
Newport 28
Newport 30
O'Day 25
O'Day 270
O'Day 35
O'Day 41
O’Day Weekender
Olson 24
Pearson 37
Piver 36' Trimaran
Piver 40' Trimaran
Pacific Seacraft 32
Rhodes 19
Rhodes 41 ketch
Sabre 34
Sabre 362
Sailboard
Swan 57
Swede 37
Soling
Sunfish
Tartan 10
Valiant 37
Valiant 40

OK, your turn. How long have you sailed Sunfishes, and what other boats have you sailed?

Here are a few questions for you.

Why do schooners rake their masts back?

How do you transfer crew under sail between two sailboats underway?

What does a quick flashing white light signify?

Give me six reasons why an inboard diesel handles differently than an outboard.

Where and when is the best place to buy a used Sunfish?
 

58984 EW

Member
Hi,

Eric Woodman here, New England Rep.

I've also e-mailed Conrad, but I thought I'd post here as well. As Conrad has discovered, the old New England Sunfish site has been retired and I no longer have any control over what appears on the old URL. It's unfortunate that this was his first encounter with the New England region, but -- as he'll discover if he comes and joins us this summer -- we have a great mix of sailors in the "home" region of the class.

As has been pointed out the new URL for New England is http://www.sunfishclass.org/~newengland/blog

FYI, the reason for the shift to the new site was to get the regional site back on the Sunfishclass.org domain.

Eric
PS I'm going to guess that there are a ton of reasons for raking a schooner's mast aft, but one comes to mind: So that the blocks on the mast could be used to raise/lower cargo without interfering with the mast.
 

Wavedancer

Upside down?
Staff member
OK gentlemen (I don't think any gentlewomen have posted so far in this thread): just a gentle reminder.
The Sunfish Forum is supposed to be a friendly medium for the exchange of info regarding this (fun) boat and its clones. It's not about 'my setup is better than yours', we don't brag or challenge one another, and we don't call each other names. Please, please, please.

For those that are relatively new to the site, let me emphasize that The Sunfish Forum is independent of the Sunfish Class Association. Bradley Green, the owner/administrator of this Forum, sets the rules. They have worked well here and for the similarly organized Laser Forum. I am certain that Bradley will consider improvements. In fact, the organization of the two forums has changed over time. But I would be a bit leery of sub-specialization of The Sunfish Forum. Topics are not always well defined and run off-track every so often, while still being relevant to Sunfish sailing. Moreover the audience of The Sunfish Forum isn't that big and we have periods with relatively little activity.

Now, regarding the International Sunfish Class Association (ISCA), the current website (www.sunfishclass.org) is really quite nice, IMHO. This is due to the efforts of Brian McGinnis, the webmaster. It used to be a different story, but that's history. The current site has the racing calendar (and not just for the USA) and links to national class associations and regional sites. Major upcoming regattas are highlighted. Other links are provided to other class relevant topics (rules, history, etc.). If you think of an improvement for that site, please contact Brian.

If I have a question, I may go to the ISCA site first. For other issues I will first consult this Forum. And then there is the Yahoo ! Groups site Sunfish Sailor (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/sunfish_sailor/). Also very useful at times and lovingly maintained by Wayne. By now, I pretty much know which site to consult whenever I have a question, but (relative) newbies should explore all three sites. It's fun, although I do miss the breeze, computer sailing.

Need to get wet now.
...
 
To the question of categories, while I can see the original poster's point and am open to change, I believe the forum is effective as it is.

As others have pointed out, threads often go off on tangents (this has been a fine example of that) which can make them difficult to properly categorize or even require them to be moved. The search function works well. My experience is that I can always find what I need. In cases when I have seen people not find what they are looking for, or ask a question that has been discussed in length, people usually respond in a timely manner and referencing older threads and supplementing them with newer information.
 

NightSailor

Captain
Eric
PS I'm going to guess that there are a ton of reasons for raking a schooner's mast aft, but one comes to mind: So that the blocks on the mast could be used to raise/lower cargo without interfering with the mast.
Eric, I really appreciate your help. Perhaps you can get the link changed on the web site.

Sorry. That is not the answer about the schooner.
 

NightSailor

Captain
Hey NightSailer,
since you have sailed so many boats before, you think you could possibly let me have one
I don't own them all. I just sail them. if you want advice on how to get rides on cool boats I know all the tricks. Being good helps, but plenty of people are looking for crew, all the time. A flexible schedule helps. Save your time off and keep your bags packed, and travel light.

As for my boats. You are welcome to come for a ride sometime. I give preference to those who help me work on them. Those that help lots get invited cool places.

I use my boats or plan to use (the 46) for sailing instruction. If I have an empty slot and you are on my good side, I can slide you in. It seems that when I have an opening or a delivery, no one can make it. Which is ok. I rather like the challenge of solo sailing on deliveries.

One helper, now close friend, has gotten two trips in the Caribbean for himself and his wife for only the cost of airfare and food. Another helper, turned into close friend, a mechanical engineer has gotten one trip and is on his way to earning a second, or as many as he wants for himself and his girlfriend. I have a new fellow helping me, a lawyer, who is high on the list for Feb of next year. He helped me dive on my 46' and clean the bottom--he is worth having along. In any event I expect to have a full boat then. My helpers all want seconds or thirds.

I may be organizing a couple of group charters to the USVI and SVi that same month. If you don't mind sharing expenses, I can show you around, teach you whatever you want, and give you a trip you will never forget. Typical charter costs are about $900 per person per week, plus airfare, and about $150 for food and soft drinks. Buy your own booze. If you don't eat out, it is fairly inexpensive for a vacation. We typically bring down all our food and three ice chests. We buy all our drinks when we get there and there is little time wasted provisioning--two people run out for beverages, while everyone else packs the food, and preps the boat. We are off the dock and anchored out every night. I have two favorite anchorages close by.

My next personal trip down in the Caribbean will be on a fast 40' sloop. I plan to sail downwind from St Thomas to Vieques, perhaps overnight in one of the little used harbors, then sail down to Esperanza vicinity and overnight. The harbors on the SE side of the island are very rocky and tricky to get into. I want to see if I can pick my way in one of them. If it doesn't look good, I'll go down to Ensenada Sun Bay--a great anchorage that is empty, or a bit farther to Esperanza. Esperanza has terrible holding, but offers free moorings--if any are available.

I personally don't like to hang out with everyone else like a sheep. I like to pack my own food, eat on the boat and spend more time sailing and exploring. The drunken tourist crawl is for amateurs.

From there I plan to port tack over to Buck Island off the North East corner of St Croix to see the sea turtles, then starboard tack to St John, around St John, New Found Bay and Waterlemon key among other places, and back to St Thomas to wrap it up. St Croix will be new for me. I don't plan to go on the main island--crime is a problem there. But that Buck Island is supposed to be very nice.

My long range plan is to figure a way to carry at least two Sunfishes on the deck of my 46. for some reason, no one sails small boats down there. I take this as a sign that these people do not know how to sail. Gorda Sound or Coral Bay are probably the best small boat sailing locations in the world. But people spend a fortune chartering a big boat, and for most, it is a new experience, so they think they are so cool, when most of these boats are sh1tting sailing machines, that can't point, and take forever to get upwind--on comes the motor and the race to pick up a mooring. Most of these people have never anchored in their home waters and they are terrified to anchor in the islands. I'd like to carry a couple of kayaks also. To rent those down there is $800/week--no kidding. So no one does, tourists rent them for half a day or not at all. If I can carry a couple of those, my guests could have more fun.

So anyway. I see myself sailing my boat to the islands and finding a cool spot to hang out like Leverick Bay, the BEYC, or Coral Harbor, and blasting around on my Sunfish. If I can carry all four of them, then I'll be organizing my own races in the morning and late afternoon, lounging on a hammock at mid-day, listening to live music at night. That is living. I will have the Mothership of Sunfishes. Hallelujah! I'll be charging much less for tours because I'll own the boat, and I'll want to keep it chartered every week.

My 46 sleeps 12 at anchor, on ocean passages it sleeps 8 comfortably. For charters I like 6 passengers but I can take more if necessary--a couple extra kids for example.

I will have a double V-berth, Two aft cabins with doubles on the bottom and a single over. I just gutted the interior. So that is my big job starting June 12th--putting it all back together again. The main cabin will have two settee berths that convert to four sea-berths. Formerly it has one settee and two built in chairs--a horrible arrangement. I have two heads--one with a shower, and a shower on deck.

Better, my boat loves Caribbean sailing. One person can sail the boat, with two it is easy. I just bought an electric halyard winch for the main--that was the hardest job on the boat--raising the mainsail.

It was made for Trade Wind conditions. It sails fast upwind and points unbelievably great. Unlike charter boats I have a full suite of sail controls--three reefs, brand new hydraulic backstay adjuster, two head sails, and a lot of sail area. I picked a good one.

While it is not a lightweight planning machine, it does have a long waterline, and at 6'4", I can stay up down below. MY spinnaker gear needs some work, but downwind should be pretty exciting when I get that squared away. I've sailed in the Caribbean, because I bring my own spinnaker gear. Who else does? That is the best part of big boat sailing, and no one does it down there except during the few major regatta's.

What else. The Ballast/Displacement Ratio is 50% So it is a pretty smooth ride, and doesn't heel over very much--It is a stiff boat.

I'll plan to charge $100/day/person, about 60% the going rate, and include food and soft drinks. At prices significantly under the going rate I will market myself to various groups I've already built relationships with. I plan to keep my prices so low that I can book it for every week for the whole season. Most of my profits will go back into the boat. I'll maintain it so that everything is perfect.

My goal is to have fun and make the deal attractive enough that people, who like to sail, and fly spinnakers, will want to come back and sail with me every year/ After the first year, word of mouth will be my advertising. I'd plan to offer free weeks for anyone who helps me return the boat in the spring. It is pretty easy to sail the boat, even in rough conditions. Three people are enough. With a full complement of 8, it will be effortless to sail the boat. With 8, ocean passages could not be easier--one person on watch, 1 hour on, 6 off, with me navigating, or in a storm, two people on two hours on and four off. I'd teach Celestial Navigation courses on the trips down and charge $1200 a leg for that.

I've worked for 6 different sailing schools. I know what people want, I know how to market it, and without needing any luck, I can cover all my expenses, grow to still bigger boats, or into a base on one of the islands like Culebra, and offer more fun things for people at reasonable rates.

So while you joke you want to sail on some of these many boats I've sail. The reality is, if you want to sail, I'm the best person to know for that. Last year I sailed over 120 days. This year I am going to put my time in working on boats and get them all done so I can spend all winter in the islands.

 

Memnar

Member
This forum seems more about restoring Sunfish than sailing them.

When I want to read about sailing it better, I usually go over to the Laser forum and read.

It would be nice to have a section about sailing vs restoring the old girls...

-Erik
 

NightSailor

Captain
This forum seems more about restoring Sunfish than sailing them.

When I want to read about sailing it better, I usually go over to the Laser forum and read.

It would be nice to have a section about sailing vs restoring the old girls...

-Erik

Erik,

You are 100% correct. I requested that the forum topic areas be split up. I proposed some divisions, in particular I suggested that there be divisions for repair, racing, and some regional areas. I was shot down in flames. I was attacked from all sides, and there was no debate on the subject and no interest on the part of the webmaster to make any changes--although one person said these were in the works.

You are about the only one who cared to respond to the specific topic I proposed--reorganizing the forum.

Instead we are stuck with one general topic area with 2000 threads. No indications of any change or improvement. Perhaps this forum should change it's name to the Dark Ages. We can set a goal of doing nothing productive for 500 years.

It makes me want to start my own forum, so I can design it in a way that makes sense., serves the needs of the members, and makes it easy to find what you want.

At a minimum it needs to split things in half--between sailing and repair. I think a few more areas would be a good idea--like a racing topics area--does anyone have any suggestions?

 

Hotfish

New Member
I have had about all I can stand of this pissing match. We hear you, that you are not pleased with this forum. This forum is about asking questions about sunfish and helping others do better. If you would like to contribute that would be great, but if all you want to do is to tell how great you are, how many sailboats you been on, and how you might let someone go sailing with you if they get on you good side.Then go play in someone elses sand box. Ask questions or help someone else, we work together as a team not against each other.
Kevin
AKA Hotfish
 

NightSailor

Captain
I have had about all I can stand of this pissing match. We hear you, that you are not pleased with this forum. This forum is about asking questions about sunfish and helping others do better. If you would like to contribute that would be great, but if all you want to do is to tell how great you are, how many sailboats you been on, and how you might let someone go sailing with you if they get on you good side.Then go play in someone elses sand box. Ask questions or help someone else, we work together as a team not against each other.
Kevin
AKA Hotfish
Hotfish is a good handle for you. But being hot is not how to run this board. Who is pissing now? You are taking this all personally. What we are talking about is a reasonable suggestion to improve the forum. Why not post a poll on the subject and let the users decide?

So what have I done that is so bad? I've posted useful information. I've started threads. I've responded to threads. I've made a valuable contributions. I have knowledge I'd like to share. I want to encourage people to fix up those old Sunfishes and get them in the water. I think every sailor should have a Sunfish. They are cheap, affordable, and fun.

If I've struck a few raw nerves, I'm sorry. That was not my intention. I a good guy. Come sailing with me and you will have a good time. I'm very easy going on the water, and perhaps a little too blunt in writing.

Here is my perspective. I was new to the forum, ergo, people concluded I must not know anything. People were looking for a reason to dismiss me--being new. Few discussed the topic I politely raised--yourself included. I should sit back and do nothing for a while? Sorry I don't get that. It reminds me of the least effective organizations I've belonged to.

So when I express myself, I come under attack like: What are my credentials? Well I have plenty. Want to see my Able Seaman Certificate from 1968? My mother saved it for, God bless her! Here I am attacked again--by you this time for having credentials and responding to someone's query on that. If you want a puppy or a puppet--go buy one.

Regarding acting as a team. Here is an example of teamwork. I offer my services to help run the forum. Why don't you at least split the forum such that Repairs are separate from Racing and other topics and I'll help run the repairs section. I'm sure there are other people equally capable and equally interested in that area who would be glad to help also.

It is ironic you cite teamwork in your diatribe. I spent 20 years as part of a real team--the US Air Force. I'd like to point out that this forum is not run like a team. It is run like a petty dictatorship. Show me where anyone has any input on how it is run. I have not seen any polls. If there are any, they are buried in 2000 topics. Polls should be sticky threads right on top--or better yet--in their own topic area! Wow, what a concept!

I propose a poll on where to put forum polls! a) In there own forum area, b) as a sticky thread on top, c) this is a dictatorship--there will be no polls, d) on another forum. How do I post a poll?

Try something different. Smile, laugh, and lets have some fun and make this the coolest sailing forum on the Internet, instead of a dried up prune.

I'd like to see a topic section on sea stories. Or one on jokes. Can we at least talk about it?

A leader would welcome discussion and adopt the view of the consensus to strengthen his position, while the participation of the group would engender the warm gratification of being heard, and the satisfaction of making a change for the better--all positive aspects of being part of a team that strengthen it. A member with no say, and who is not allowed to make suggestions, is not part of a team--a pawn perhaps. When I take people offshore, I give them responsibility, and listen to what they have to say--that is leadership.

Include yourself with those who choose to shoot the messenger. If you blast people who offer constructive suggestions, you are not the leader of a "team".

If you want me to go away, keep it up and I will. I'd rather associate with more polite people who don't come out blasting with a 12 gauge, and then complain when the find I have armor. If you want to display some leadership, take me up on my offer. Real leaders never turn away volunteers.

Now, do you think you can discuss the original topic--Forum Organization? Or not?

Based on the response I've seen so far. I'll guess no.
 

minifish

New Member
I think points have been made and noted by management. Nothing else to be said here for any benefit on either side of the opinion.

I hope the thread doesn't start stinking the place up.
 

fbjru

Member
If we learn nothing else from this thread we can at least admire admire NightSailors passion and enthusiasm for Sailing and Sunfish sailing. He has made more lengthy and credible posts in his month on this forum than most members have or ever will. I for one have been reading this forum for five years but have rarely posted my own thoughts. Regardless of some of the things that have been said, I enjoy seeing seeing the enthusiasm for the class, which is really needed to vitalize and strenghten the class.

Regarding the original suggestion:

Regrardless of how the topic was presented and whether or not it will be ever be done.
For what it is worth, the suggestion is not a bad one.

Personally, I hav'nt had too much trouble navigating the forum as is. It is fairly easy to search key words and read through material. If you are seeking particular information.

As far as topics being quickly buried- This has not tipically been a problem. This forum generally moves quite slowly (I often wish it saw more action). However, in the last month, with summer approaching, the forum has been moving quite quickly and some threads have been buried rather quickly. This has been the pace that NightSailor has seen, and probably contributed to his suggestion.

In conclution I would be ok with this chang in organization, but I am also fine with it as is. I do not wish to make complaints because I know that managing a forum can be a large task (Thanks Bradley). The forum, as I understand it, is undergoing some changes. Perhaps Bradey has things in mind and is way ahead of all of us.
 

Bradley

Administrator
Staff member
Hello Everyone,

I will take a few moments to update you all on the status of the recent forum upgrades and give my thoughts on forum organization.

First, the merge is nearly complete. I finished fixing the knowledge base yesterday, which was the last part of the site that had not been moved over. It required a new content management system that was less reliant on hard programmed variables that we don't use anymore. Anyways, I want to get a lot more content and organize some of the old helpful forum posts there over time. If anyone is interested in writing/editing for the KB please let me know.

Also, if your username has an imported_ in front of it please contact me so I can manually merge your Laser and Sunfish accounts.

Finally, when you post in the General Sailing or Dockhouse sections your post will be viewable on all three forums including laserforum.org and sailingforums.com. I hope these new areas will generate more discussion on the site and increase our daily post numbers in the long run. I would like to let these sections run a while before I add anything else to the mix, but that doesn't mean I am against a sub-divide...

Now for organization:
Breaking the forum into a lot of parts fragments discussion and can lead to less talk on a small forum like this one. I have experimented with multiple sections over time (I've been running forum's since 2002 when I launched what became The Laser Forum) and have found most people still post to the "main" section. However, I'm not against creating a sub-divide between sailing and restoration posts. The "Sunfish Talk" forum could be broken down into "Sunfish Sailing" and "Sunfish Repairs and Upgrades." I know how NightSailor feels about this, but I would like to hear some more opinions for everyone else. Would you like to see a section split?

I appreciate everyone's remarks and passion for improving the site and sunfish sailing!
 

acs026

Member
I think a simple yes or no vote can work well in this situation :p

And thanks to Bradley and everyone on this site. I just taught myself to sail like 2 years ago, and I am now restoring a boat. A lot of my information has come from the experience of others on this site. Especially when it has come to my repairs.

So regardless if it is split or not. I think it is a great forum
 

Bradley

Administrator
Staff member
Thanks for all your comments. I will take them all into consideration as future plans are made for TSF. For the immediate future, I will not be adding a new section but I am always carefully monitoring forum traffic and trends and will add the section when the traffic warrants.

Cheers,
 

Courtenay

New Member
Thanks, Bradley, for all of your hard work. It is much appreciated and applauded! I am a new Sunfish owner and just learning to sail, but I have enjoyed surfing through the posts and have learned much from the other contributors to the forum. I think a division would be beneficial, but I have not found it difficult to use the search feature for certain subjects - always have found what I was looking for.
 

danpal

Active Member
I have to say that I miss NightSailor's posts... He certainly made it interesting and his repair posts were quite detailed.
 

Wavedancer

Upside down?
Staff member
The Sunfish Forum is about the boats, not the contributors. Hence, messages directed at contributors that are less than friendly will be deleted.

PS: See the first paragraph of my May 7, 2009 message.

:) That's more than two years ago! Time does fly, doesn't it, let's go sailing...
 
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