Fastest Laser Ever!!!

What can I wax ,sand, or do to make my laser go as fast a possible.
I'm pretty sure time spent actually SAILING will make you a lot faster than doing that sort of thing to your laser. Unless of course you're professional and in the olympics.
 
What can I wax ,sand, or do to make my laser go as fast a possible.

This is not really the point of laser sailing. Basically if your hull is already scratch free all you need to do is polish your boat once or twice a year. If you want to sail a boat where you can make it as fast as you can by bending the rules then lasers aren't for you.
 
agreed with teh other two posts, time in the boat man. if that fails and you still feel the need to be the fastest and lose interest in working on technique and skills you could mount a 15 horse outboard on the stern and let her rip. I would use a 4 stroke(green) with a short shaft and wear a helmet, the wipe outs would be killer
 
What can I wax ,sand, or do to make my laser go as fast a possible.

Ladiej,

I use boat soap to wash the boat, then use Soft Scrub on any stains and stubborn dirt. Finally, I finish with a coat of Starbrite Teflon Polish, pretty much the standard for slick Lasers (legal, too).

If you have an older boat with roughened gel coat, then sand with progressively finer sand paper, 600, 800, 1200 grit. Finish with the teflon coating.
 
No way I am recommending this be repeated but..My dad got a ticket for hauling his Sidewinder 85 mph.

So, a certain guy who used to travel with me and is now a class officer was riding with me when we got my 2001 Chevy van with a Laser on top and four Laers on the trailer behind it up to 98 or so.

We didn't go up to 100 because the guy who will be left nameles swore he had diven a Tahoe that fast and all the elecronics shut off at 100 mph and didn't resume function until he slowed down. I didn't want to find out about the Van's idiot prooffing safeguards and slowed down before any West Texas cops showed up.

After that brief diversion, we resumed being bored out of our skulls while looking at what seemed to be the same hill off in the distance for half a day.
 
... you could mount a 15 horse outboard on the stern and let her rip....

I've routinely beat aluminum boats with outboard motors in my Laser. I usually sail in high winds (preferrably +30 knots) and pass them all the time. It's a lot of fun! They're usually bouncing up and down in the waves (turning purple) and I'm usually laughing my head off due to the insanity of it all :D
 
Knock it off, guys. This might have a bit funky title, but this is a legitimate question.
 
Knock it off, guys. This might have a bit funky title, but this is a legitimate question.

OK, I think the single biggest thing you can do to make your boat faster is to become the best possible sailor. I have a hull here from 1982 that I'm working on and it's got tons of scratches.

I firmly believe that if the hull were bone dry, and if the rigging was up to date, that you could put the leading Laser sailor in the world in this old hull and that he would win the same amount of races as he currently does.

I don't see hull 'friction' as being of great importance and to be honest, I doubt my scratches slow my boat down by any measurable amount. I would go so far as to say that compared to sailing skill, hull condition is nearly irrelevant (assuming of course that the hull is dry and that it's basic shape is sound).

I would not be surprised if someone lab-tested Laser hulls in a pool and found that scratches vs. clean made little to no difference. I think what they would find is that scratches 'fill in' with water as the hull passes over the water and they then become a moot point.

Now, I could be wrong, there's lots of people here with way more experience and skill then myself, but I still maintain that if my hull were bone dry and rigged properly you could plant the leading Laser sailor in it and he would be just as fast - he just wouldn't look as cool :D

I think what your question really comes down to is hull friction and I think that's almost 100% related to the hull design - and on a Laser that's fixed. The idea being that no boat can be faster then another so that a race becomes strictly a measure of the sailor's skill - not who spent the most money or attracted the greatest engineering talent.

If you really wanted to know for sure I would suggest looking at extreme mega-dollar sailing races with large boats and enormous budgets and see what they say/do. I doubt they run any paint at all - they probably put all their focus on hull design and save the weight of the paint!

After years in technical trades I've found that there is a point of diminishing returns. That is to say, where your efforts become so high and the return becomes so low that the only time it becomes warranted is when the competitors are so closely matched that even a marginal (or should I say negligible) increase in speed becomes significant.

This is typically based on 'known factors' that is to say, in the automotive industry we 'know' that generally speaking it takes 500 horsepower to make a car go 200 MPH. This is largely due to overcoming the resistance of the air against the car (or rather, the car against the air!). We also know it generally takes 1,000 horsepower to make the same car go 250 miles per hour - for the same reasons. Now, you can (and should) make the car's shape as efficient as possible (lowest drag coefficient) so that it takes less power to push it through the air. That's what you're after less power to push your boat through the water...

The point is, in the automotive industry (as just one example) it's relatively easy to factor in these variables and design around them. However, in Laser sailing there is a 'nature' aspect that creates variables that just can't be accounted for. Take for example the wind. If the wind is blowing 40 knots that doesn't mean it's blowing 40 knots all over the course. If you have a boat above you then the windspeed you encounter will be different. More importantly, the shape of wind will be different....

The next factor is the waves. How you go over the waves and as importantly, what waves you encounter will drastically affect your speed. No two waves are alike and neither is the wind. The wind speed is affected by the waves and that makes for another variable that cannot be factored into the equation.

If you could, in theory, have a 40 knot wind with a perfectly flat ocean and have identical boats with identical sailors - then you would go after those diminishing points because they will make the difference between being in the lead position or not.

Fortunately, unlike in other industries, you just can't factor in the unpredictability of sailing against ever-changing dynamics such as the wind or the waves. And those are just two variables...

For the record, that's actually what attracts me to sailing - the continual quest for that 'perfect' run. It can't really be quantified. If you get it - you get it and when you go home you remember it. I haven't sailed my Laser in 10 years (it's being repaired) but I can still remember all of the great runs - particularly the last one that actually broke the boat! I was going so fast I was scared... :eek::D

Anyway, my advice is this - wax your hull with a good quality car wax and buff it out with a clean cloth so that it's silky smooth. (do this to your car too and your paint won't fade in the sun!). Once you've done that you can rest in the knowledge that your boat's bottom is as frictionless as possible and that knowledge will help your sailing because you'll be satisifed you've done all you can and you will then shift your focus to other areas of importance :)

Also, car wax will fill in whatever minor (or even major) scratches are there making your hull more uniform. It is a fact that most coatings (including painted hulls) will have variances in the coating. If you looked at it under a microscope I'm sure you would see minor 'pitting' here and there just as a windshield gets pitted from debris when driving. Often, you can't see the pittting but it's still there.

In the same way that waxing your windshield will fill in those pits so will waxing your boat's bottom. So there you go, when you wax your car next time don't forget to wax the windshield too! It will help repell the rain....hmmmm.... now there's a thought... wax repells water! Let's stop here before I get into a 'point of diminishing' return and end up confusing myself from another common engineering maladay - paralysis by analysis.
 
I would not be surprised if someone lab-tested Laser hulls in a pool and found that scratches vs. clean made little to no difference. I think what they would find is that scratches 'fill in' with water as the hull passes over the water and they then become a moot point.

In Frank Bethwaite's book High Performance Sailing he reports on tests where he measured drag of various hull shapes towed at various speeds. He found a surprising difference in drag between two apparently identical hulls (not Lasers as far as I know) when towing them at 2 knots in flat water. He tested them again and found the same difference. He then realized that one of the hulls had just been trailed about 200 miles over a dry road and had an invisible film of road dirt. The eye couldn't see the film but the hand could just feel a slight difference. They washed both boats and repeated the test. Now they had identical drag.

Bethwaite concludes that "even invisible grit can cause detectable slowing".

OK. I know it's not scratches but it does reinforce the need for a clean, smooth hull.
 
I can go with that assumption (if it's based on a proper (read accurate) testing methodology) but I would also tend to wonder why the water itself did not remove the coating? Now we get into road film caused by trace amounts of oil residue typically encountered when one trailors a boat! Another variable :D

There's one main point that I forgot to mention above. Making a boat move faster through a viscous liquid such as water is not really a hard thing to do when a person takes it back to basics. The simplest way is to reduce the surface area of the boat as it moves through water. The less surface area exposed to the water - the faster the object will move.

An example of this could be those hydrofoil boats with 'wings' to lift them out of the water. They operate on the exact same principle. Once they reach a certain speed the hull lifts out of the water and, because the surface area is dramatically reduced, their speed increases by several orders of magnitude.

Now I'm running on memory (it's been 10 years) but I think this comes back to sailing in light winds and tilting the boat - for just such a reason.
 
I found this old string from years ago. I found most of the posts above to be on the ridiculous side as this was/is a legitimate ongoing question regarding wet sanding, waxing, or polishing practices to achieve a well-performing (fast) undercoat and/or foils. As many are looking to do some spring clean-up with a nod towards performance, here's an article with advice from some of the best sailors in the world within the Lightning Class . . .


Best,
Mark
 
I agree that a boat in perfect shape will not be significantly faster than one with scratches. I think that a solid hull is the #1 thing you should consider, that followed closely by hull weight. This is considering that you have the modern rig and NOT the old bunk that they used to have (yea 3:1 vang!)

You should also consider a new sail. The sail is your motor, and if yours is blown out... You start at a distinct disadvantage. I always have said, "give me an older boat with a new sail rather than a new boat with old sail" If you are just kicking around, there are several inexpensive "practice" sails. I've used the Vella for the last couple of seasons, and I like it.

While some of the comments may have been a bit smart ass, I agree that tiller time makes you faster than pretty much anything else. The Laser has a very narrow window for keeping up with the front of the pack. It's been sailed very competitively for over 50 years. That means, pretty much 99% of all go fast has been "figured out". Tiller time is key. I would also concentrate on starts, tactics and strategy. Going fast the wrong way is never good.

Hope this helps a bit.
 
Yes, I 1000% agree practice is the gold standard for any sport to produce performance/speed. For this particular post, the writer specifically asked "what she can wax, sand, or do to make my laser go as fast as possible". Based on the wording, I believe writer was hoping for more advice on how to get her physical "Laser" itself up to speed.

Outside of a couple posts, it seemed like very little tangible advice was given on the sanding or waxing aspect of her question, Hence, I left the resource from the other ILCA (Lightnings) to get a fast hull and foils via different methods and practices from some of the best.

Monkey_Feet, I do agree with you on the sail being highest priority . . . if putting money into this the writer's question. This would be my pecking order (keeping the list purely to the boat itself):

1. New Sail is always best bet and well kept $$-$$$
2. Regular cleaning and as needed fairing scratches, wet sanding, and polishing-up Foils (cheap)
3. Regular cleaning and as needed fairing scratches, wet sanding, and then polishing-up the hull (cheap)
4. Tiller selection with fit snug connection (especially low profile to get traveler tight) $$
5. Performance rigging (assume decent rigging used for #1 but go performance level rigging here $$-$$$)
6. Last on the list if able to afford - carbon mast . . . yikes $$$$

#2 and #3 are the only "To Do's", most of the others are primarily purchases and setting-up correctly.
 
I'm new to Laser sailing, sailed them a few times as a teen back in the 80's. Prior to that we raced Dyer Dhow Dingies 7'11"
As competitive as all us kids were them damn things got polished with good ole Rain Dance car wax and that seemed to be the magic elixir for speed.
I purchased my 1st Laser a few weeks ago and currently working on cleaning it up a bit.
Been enjoying reading the forum here!!
Pete
 
@pvansch1
Hey Pete - Welcome! I'm kind of recently back too after a long hiatus in sailing.

The Laser makes a lot of sense (and kinda no sense) to me at this stage in my life. It's fun attempting to get my boat (and me) up to speed.

As far as polishing and waxing - I have settled on wetsandng then a Polish with PTEF. If I get some oxidation at some point on my boat I guess I will add a middle step of a cleaner/wax for mild oxidation before the polish.

Good luck cleaning-up your boat!,
Mark
 

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