Fair price for a used sunfish

[pseudo15prt]

Hi all,

I would like to pick up a used Sunfish. The budget isn't that large (being a student and all...), so I posted a wanted ad on Craigslist for a "beat up old Sunfish." I finally got a reply this weekend with the following pictures. He wants me to make an offer. I have no idea what a fair price is!

Here is the description: "All parts are there (sail, mast, spars, tiller, rudder, centerboard, running rigging). Hull is functional and is due for some fiberglass patching on bottom and edges. As is, boat was last sailing before school started at end of summer."

Please, knowledgeable nautical folk, can you give me an idea of what to offer? Thanks!

 

[danpal]

I'd say not a lot.

• The dagger board doesn't look like a Sunfish daggerboard.
• The rudder straps looks homemade.
  
• The deck doesn't look like it has a fairlead but instead a deck block so it's probably a '72 or '73.
  
• It looks like there's damage to the stern.
• I can't tell the condition of the sail but I can see some patches.

I'd make sure to bring a scale with me to see how much the hull weighs. Sunfish hulls should weigh around 130 lbs.
If you decide to buy it, realize that it's going to take a lot of work to get it seaworthy.
I don't think I'd offer more than $150 which might still be high.

 

[L&VW]

I've bought three Sunfish in the last four years. Each is the later model with the space (cubby) aft of the cockpit. The newest is a '77, and paid a high of $350 (no trailer), with a low of $240 (net...sold the trailer). These were each purchased in Florida, where we have nearly year-round sailing, and Sunfish get a lot of saltwater use. I didn't need to do any fiberglass repair, and each was complete.

My first Sunfish was represented by the seller as being a "practice Sunfish", so I only paid $125 for it (and then, two of us couldn't lift it) . It turned out to be a soggy Porpoise II , but turned out to be a good way to get sailing again.

 

[Alan S. Glos]

Interesting. This may be a pre-1972 hull that somebody has upgraded to the new post-1972 rudder system (see the spare old-style rudder blade in the photo.) Is there a storage compartment aft of the cockpit? If yes, the hull is 1972 or newer. If not, it is pre-1972. Yes, the dagger board is a home made wood version of the new style race board and the metal rudder straps that hold the tiller handle to the rudder blade are non-standard, home made.

Weigh he hull by balancing the hull in its side amidships on decent bathroom scales. 13o - 140 lbs is good, much heavier is a red flag that the hull leaked and the interior foam soaked up some water. The fact that somebody has installed an inspection port tells me that the boat might be overweight and somebody tried to dry it out with the deck port. Heavy boats are a pain to handle on land, don't sail well and tend to capsize easier than a light boat.

If the hull is not too heavy, and if there is no serious fiberglass damage, and if the sail and spars are decent, I think the boat is worth up to $200. Offer $150 and see if you can get it under $200. But if the bare hull is heavy (over 140), keep looking,
Where are you located? Are there usually used Sunfish for sale in your area?

Alan Glos
Cazenovia, NY

 

[pseudo15prt]

Wow, great advice! I really appreciate the replies.

I'm located in Nashville TN, and there are sunfish that come up one at a time on Craigslist, but not really that many. Now, I've only been checking frequently since the fall (I bet summer is a better time to look), but being so far from the coast, I believe there are a lot fewer sailboat around (plenty of motor boats of course).

I haven't seen the boat in person yet to see weight and whether or not has an aft compartment. I tried playing around with contrast/brightness and MAYBE(?) there is one, but the picture is pretty low quality so really who knows for sure. I'll just have to look at it in person.

Assuming there aren't any horrible structural issues it seems like this boat could be exactly what I'm looking for. As I said above, I'm OK with fixing it up (actually, that's preferable! Will be fun to learn). I'll email the seller to offer $150. Could be he expects $400 or something and then I'll just need to find another boat. He said he has the harbor freight boat trailer too but honestly I would probably rather buy it new since if I buy a used one I'll probably have to replace the tires, bearings, lights, etc, and by then I could have bought myself a new one without any rust etc. If it was a name-brand trailer then that would be a different story of course.

 

[beldar boathead]

Since that boat has stripes on the aft deck, it is a 1972 or later, so it came with the new style rudder and it will have the storage compartment. You are going to need a LOT of varnish since those are just going to soak it up since nothing has been maintained. I think the suggestions on pricing are correct. $200 absolute max. BB

 

[Alan S. Glos]

One caveat - see the boat in person and weigh it before making an offer sight-unseen. The hull could be completely waterlogged
and not worth trying to dry out. Offering $150 sight unseen could land you a clunker.

Alan Glos

 

[pseudo15prt]

I contacted the seller telling him my idea of a price and saying I wanted to stop by and see it in person. Hopefully he wasn't expecting me to give him $500 or something... anyway, we'll see what happens. Thanks again for the advice. I've looked over the FAQs and over at the Sunfish sailor yahoo group for how to restore one. Good winter/spring project.

 

[pseudo15prt]

Hi all,
I picked up the boat today. Final price $150, and bought a trailer off him as well for a good price. The boat is indeed a newer style with the storage compartment behind cockpit. It is in pretty rough shape, as we saw from the pictures. There are dings and dents around the chine which I guess I can fill with epoxy. The deck has a crack/hole in the stern area, but I found a nice repair guide for how to cut it out, insert fiberglass matt behind it, and then build up the hole with more epoxy. Because the gelcoat is pretty scratched and crazed I guess my best option is to sand down and repaint it with brightsides or similar, especially since I'll be filling dents and cracks with epoxy.

The overall weight for empty hull, no spars, is 160 pounds. Is the 130 pounds it is SUPPOSED to be including the mast, spars, etc? Or just the base hull itself? I will setup a fan and exhaust tubing to get air to the bow and stern from the central inspection port.

 

[signal charlie]

139 pounds is the advertised hull weight for those boats, but there was not much in the way of QA. A hull from that time frame will be on the high side of 139 pounds, I expect 145 is not crazy because they used great fiberglass mat back then and they may have gone extra on the expanding foam. 160 tells me there is about two gallons of water trapped in there somewhere, not bad for a 40 year old boat.

 

[pseudo15prt]

I will post more pictures for interested parties later. I've removed all the hardware and have it upside down in my garage with a 5 inch fan held tightly against the inspection port to dry it out. Good news: Lot of air is being pumped through the hull. Bad news: it's coming out of holes in the hull! No problem, I've read the repair guides for blind patches, etc, and have purchased enough epoxy, fiberglass cloth, and filler to hopefully take care of the holes and dings in the hull. The flotation foam is intact, except for the "glue" foam on the top of the hull on the starboard side (right next to my inspection port at the coming). The glue foam has broken loose completely there. Thankfully that area is easily accessible from the inspection port. I will remove the pieces and spray some expanding foam to replace it. The block is still securely intact from the glue on the bottom side of the block.

 

[signal charlie]

...The flotation foam is intact, except for the "glue" foam on the top of the hull on the starboard side (right next to my inspection port at the coming). The glue foam has broken loose completely there. Thankfully that area is easily accessible from the inspection port. I will remove the pieces and spray some expanding foam to replace it. The block is still securely intact from the glue on the bottom side of the block.

I'd use as little spray foam as possible, just tack it down in a few areas. You might consider chiseling out a small straw size channel for it to flow between the block and the deck/hull. Keep in mind that Great Stuff is water "resitant," not "closed cell" and it will soak up water if left immersed, so the boat needs to be dried out after each sail. If you want a closed cell, marine grade foam like the manufacture used, check out Fibreglast, that's what I use for repairs. Great stuff will have you going this afternoon though

You can carve away 2/3 of that other foam blob while you are in there, it is excess and is probably holding water. Throw a couple of squirts of foam on that side as well. If you squish the pieces you remove then you may see water ooze out.

While you have air blowing through the hull check for air leaks at the rudder gudgeon, bailer through hull hole, daggerboard trunk and mast step, common areas for leaks. At one point you want to soap test the deck/hull seam, see if any air bubbles out around the trim. I've found many a split hiding under that trim, especially at the bow and on either side of the cockpit. There is no need to take the trim off to check for leaks, you'll see the bubbles.

Keep in mind that TOO much air being blown into a hull can actually inflate it and pop seams, or separate the blocks from the hull. Most important for all of us, electricity and water are a dangerous combo in boatyards!

 

[L&VW]

"Bad news: it's coming out of holes in the hull! No problem..."

Not a problem anyway. Leaks of water into the hull would most likely affect the foam that is nearest the holes. If you dry a saltwater boat, remaining salt can act to keep the interior moist, so don't expect full dryness all the time.

 

[pseudo15prt]

I'd use as little spray foam as possible, just tack it down in a few areas. You might consider chiseling out a small straw size channel for it to flow between the block and the deck/hull. Keep in mind that Great Stuff is water "resitant," not "closed cell" and it will soak up water if left immersed, so the boat needs to be dried out after each sail. If you want a closed cell, marine grade foam like the manufacture used, check out Fibreglast, that's what I use for repairs. Great stuff will have you going this afternoon though

You can carve away 2/3 of that other foam blob while you are in there, it is excess and is probably holding water. Throw a couple of squirts of foam on that side as well. If you squish the pieces you remove then you may see water ooze out.

While you have air blowing through the hull check for air leaks at the rudder gudgeon, bailer through hull hole, daggerboard trunk and mast step, common areas for leaks. At one point you want to soap test the deck/hull seam, see if any air bubbles out around the trim. I've found many a split hiding under that trim, especially at the bow and on either side of the cockpit. There is no need to take the trim off to check for leaks, you'll see the bubbles.

Keep in mind that TOO much air being blown into a hull can actually inflate it and pop seams, or separate the blocks from the hull. Most important for all of us, electricity and water are a dangerous combo in boatyards!

When you say chisel out a "straw sized channel", do you mean at a couple of places along the block? I guess my question is this: when I press down on the hull bottom (upside down), the hull flexes at that point because the foam block has seperated from the fiberglass. I (believe???) that I should glue it back down, so I will blow some Great Stuff into that gap between foam block and the hull to "glue" them together. But since the spacing is very close, there is no way I'll be able to get anywhere close to complete coverage, especially since I only have access to that block from an access port in front of the cockpit (it's the foam block next to that location). So maybe I should widen that gap in a couple of places and spray as much as I can, then place some heavy weights on the hull exterior to clamp the area down.

Thoughts?? Thanks.

 

[pseudo15prt]

And she's done! I want to thank everyone on the forum for their comments (on this thread and all the others that I've read to figure out how-in-the-world-to-fix-this-thing). The boat was in worse condition than I originally thought, to be honest. I think I did a little of every kind of repair possible on these boats. The hull had some fiberglass repair work to fix some holes, and I painted the hull and wet-sanded and buffed the deck. Repaired the foam blocks, added an inspection port, etc, etc. Lots of fun! Still need to install the trim. The sail is new and the daggerboard and rudder were sanded and varnished. This isn't a showcase boat by any means, but it sails and I'm going to have a blast on the water. Thanks guys!!!

Edit: forgot to say that I took it to the lake and dunked it, but only then realized that I forgot the life jacket. It floats though...