242downlow
New Member
Hey, wondering if anyone has completely removed the deck from the hull before. So far i have the Hull/Deck joint seperated. wondering what kind of fun i will be running into to finish the project.
Disassembling a Sunfish
- Thread starter 242downlow
- Start date
mike4947
Member
Well if you want something to leave out to the curb then seperate the deck from the hull.
There is attachments at the bottom of the cockpit, the mast stem and at IIRC 8 foam blocks.
Yet to see one that was successfully sperated without breaking something, or one put back together again and sailed right.
That's the main reason the normal advice is to install ports rather than try and seperate the major components.
There is attachments at the bottom of the cockpit, the mast stem and at IIRC 8 foam blocks.
Yet to see one that was successfully sperated without breaking something, or one put back together again and sailed right.
That's the main reason the normal advice is to install ports rather than try and seperate the major components.
242downlow
New Member
Thats the problem with most of the forums ive been on. Everyone is quick to say don't do it. you'll mess it up.. it can't be done.. etc. etc. the foam in mine is all messed up and needs to be replaced. last i checked you can't stuff the blocks of foam through access ports and properly place them. plus some other holes and such that need to be patched. it can be done. it can be done right. and i am positive others have done it.
sailor3001
New Member
Just buy another hull. I have taken one apart, and it is a mess. If you insist on fixing this one, put a few ports in, pull out as much of the foam as you can, and put inflatable airbags (made for boats) inside the hull and then inflate them. You'll have no trouble this way. Why put foam back in if it is just gonna get waterlogged again?
Trey
Trey
mike4947
Member
Well my advice came from personal experience. One hull I attempted to seperate and several other that other apptemted to do. The entire cockpit bottom can have bonding compound securing it to the hull, not to mention the mast step will HAVE to be cut from either the deck or the hull.
As for the foam it is a structural element as well as floatation. Blocks can be successfully rebonded to either the hull or deck depending on which it seperated from, but once the blocks have degraded to the point they are falling apart the hull is really too far gone to be considered salvagable.
Downlow keep us aprrised of your progress, there always a first for everything.
As for the foam it is a structural element as well as floatation. Blocks can be successfully rebonded to either the hull or deck depending on which it seperated from, but once the blocks have degraded to the point they are falling apart the hull is really too far gone to be considered salvagable.
Downlow keep us aprrised of your progress, there always a first for everything.
242downlow
New Member
the fiberglass is in good shape. the blocks are bad because it sat and they have mildew or something on them and are degrading. there is a hole in the keel below the cockpit. the only place that it seems to be bonded is at the drain. i will keep it updated on how it goes.
There are usually many free or cheap hull only situations out there, but if you wish to rebuild this hull for (fun) or ?, Then Good Luck! Keep us updated. I was given a solid boat but very heavy, like 250lbs. I dried her out and got her down to 165, not too bad for a '67, Made some upgrades and even race occasionally and usually win against lighter boats!
beldar boathead
Married to Primat Boathead
Downlow, don't do anything more than separating the deck from the hull. You can peel the deck up enough from there to get old blocks out and new blocks in. If you start pulling the mast and daggerboard tube free from the deck or hull, you will end up with a piece of fiberglass junk when you are done. There is a reason all you read is "don't do it." The people who have tried it are not total idiots - in fact, they might even be as smart as you. BB
242downlow
New Member
who me? smart? nah. I was sitting there looking at it last night thinking to myself.. I said 'self, really wish i was sailing this thing instead of looking at it.' so.... now i need a boat load of spring clamps and 3 blocks of styrofoam. the west systems i can pick up at work. i need some for my big boat anyway. (nice working for west marine, nice discounts 
) i am still short a rudder and daggerboard. the daggerboard i can make. the rudder i could make but dont have the hardware for it. this is an old fish. not sure how old. the guy that gave it to me said he bought it new long time ago but doesnt remember when. the rudder hardware is the old style. and my wife wont give me money to upgrade.. this was supposed to be a cheap project to keep me from spending money on the other boat.
) i am still short a rudder and daggerboard. the daggerboard i can make. the rudder i could make but dont have the hardware for it. this is an old fish. not sure how old. the guy that gave it to me said he bought it new long time ago but doesnt remember when. the rudder hardware is the old style. and my wife wont give me money to upgrade.. this was supposed to be a cheap project to keep me from spending money on the other boat.242downlow
New Member
oh yeah, i am a firm believer that i could do this. i've built several boats from scratch and repaired boats from a 505 to a 52' van de stadt design. but the one thing that i realized and something i'm suprised no one said is....'why? why do more than you have to'
I kind of agree with the naysayers, but why not have the fun/challenge of tackling it? 1. It doesn't have to be foam, just something strong enough to support the deck where it's needed. 2. Don't use the styrofoam that's made by blowing beads. . . It'll degrade pretty quickly. Use high density stuff or ethafoam. 3. How 'bout epoxy/glass over styrofoam ? 4. You could make a rudder, make your own simple gudgeons out of aluminum flat stock, and use a piece of stainless rod or tubing for pintles.
What number 505 did you have? . . We were #3061.
What number 505 did you have? . . We were #3061.
Gail
24186
Have a buddy who did the separation thing and replaced the foam blocks, successfully. He DID NOT completely separate the deck and hull. DON'T DO IT! I interviewed a factory guy about it once and he also said DON'T DO IT!
The building of these boats was not meant to be forever, ever. It sounds like your boat is 35-40 years old. That's a hell of a long life!
Mold/mildew inside the hull on the styrofoam will not "degrade" the styrofoam. Styrofoam is inert. The green is growing because of what came in with the water from the leaks ... Dark, cool, warm, etc., and it grows.
Likely the original old style rudder attachment system, which had a through of the hull bottom screw into a piece of mahogany is what caused the initial leak. If you get a new piece of wood and reattach what was there, and treat it nicely, you'll get another 20+ years of use out of it.
There is no real reason to replace styrofoam unless somehow it breaks loose and is broken into pieces.
Even when it's soggy, it will eventually dry out. Just takes patience, someplace with very low relative humidity, patience, a way to blow that low humidity, heated air through the hull, patience, and time to let the water migrate out of the styrofoam and evaporate. Locked inside the hull with little air flow it takes a long time.
All this said, since you've already split it, if you're really going to remove the blocks, realize they were "glued" in place with a 2-part expanding foam. If you contact the factory they might be able to tell you how to get some. I'm actually doubting that they use it any more (OSHA, etc.). The yellow/brown foam you'll find inside is that expanding foam. The white stuff is the structural styrofoam. The 6 styrofoam blocks support the hull to the deck and provide additional strength to the fiberglass and overall hull structure.
My buddy actually took his out of the hull, put them in his basement for the winter (planning in the spring when it warmed up to go buy new styrofoam and wanted to know what size to cut it to). When he picked them up in the spring, getting ready to go to the store, they were LIGHT again! He decided, what the heck, I'm just putting them back in! And he did.
You're right, you need lots of spring clamps and WEST. Getting that lip resealed will be a big project.
Good luck.
The building of these boats was not meant to be forever, ever. It sounds like your boat is 35-40 years old. That's a hell of a long life!
Mold/mildew inside the hull on the styrofoam will not "degrade" the styrofoam. Styrofoam is inert. The green is growing because of what came in with the water from the leaks ... Dark, cool, warm, etc., and it grows.
Likely the original old style rudder attachment system, which had a through of the hull bottom screw into a piece of mahogany is what caused the initial leak. If you get a new piece of wood and reattach what was there, and treat it nicely, you'll get another 20+ years of use out of it.
There is no real reason to replace styrofoam unless somehow it breaks loose and is broken into pieces.
Even when it's soggy, it will eventually dry out. Just takes patience, someplace with very low relative humidity, patience, a way to blow that low humidity, heated air through the hull, patience, and time to let the water migrate out of the styrofoam and evaporate. Locked inside the hull with little air flow it takes a long time.
All this said, since you've already split it, if you're really going to remove the blocks, realize they were "glued" in place with a 2-part expanding foam. If you contact the factory they might be able to tell you how to get some. I'm actually doubting that they use it any more (OSHA, etc.). The yellow/brown foam you'll find inside is that expanding foam. The white stuff is the structural styrofoam. The 6 styrofoam blocks support the hull to the deck and provide additional strength to the fiberglass and overall hull structure.
My buddy actually took his out of the hull, put them in his basement for the winter (planning in the spring when it warmed up to go buy new styrofoam and wanted to know what size to cut it to). When he picked them up in the spring, getting ready to go to the store, they were LIGHT again! He decided, what the heck, I'm just putting them back in! And he did.
You're right, you need lots of spring clamps and WEST. Getting that lip resealed will be a big project.
Good luck.
There is a lot of opinion in this thread. So as someone who has replaced the foam in a 1965 Sunfish successfully I thought I would add myu experience to mix.
1) I agree to not seperate the daggerboard trunk, mast step and cockpit floor from the hull. You will never get them back together again properly.
2) You are on the right track seperating the hull to deck joint and you should be able to reomve all the old foam and replace. I replaced the foam in the boat a restored with the 2lb closed cell foam (blue in color and used in aircraft construction) rather than the 1lb foam (white and used for flotation dock systems etc). The old pieces were used as templates to get the correct shape.
3) You can buy the expanding foam at a marine supply store. It is a 2 part product that you mix together and then it expands. Tape the block in place then use the foam to attach to the hull. DO NOT use the spray foam in a can from your local home improvement store!
4) Use west systems to glue the hull back together with spring clamps. I used some fiberglass tape and wetted out with epoxy then placed the tape between the 2 surfaces then held together with spring clamps.
When completed the restored boat is factory new and probably better in some areas. This is a big project and takes some thought to get thing back together again, but it is not impossable. The boat I restored went from weighing over 200 lbs back to the original weight of around 115 to 120 and is very race worthy and is a joy to sail. No hull deformations, no leaking, and very solid. Take your time and think it through.
Good luck.
1) I agree to not seperate the daggerboard trunk, mast step and cockpit floor from the hull. You will never get them back together again properly.
2) You are on the right track seperating the hull to deck joint and you should be able to reomve all the old foam and replace. I replaced the foam in the boat a restored with the 2lb closed cell foam (blue in color and used in aircraft construction) rather than the 1lb foam (white and used for flotation dock systems etc). The old pieces were used as templates to get the correct shape.
3) You can buy the expanding foam at a marine supply store. It is a 2 part product that you mix together and then it expands. Tape the block in place then use the foam to attach to the hull. DO NOT use the spray foam in a can from your local home improvement store!
4) Use west systems to glue the hull back together with spring clamps. I used some fiberglass tape and wetted out with epoxy then placed the tape between the 2 surfaces then held together with spring clamps.
When completed the restored boat is factory new and probably better in some areas. This is a big project and takes some thought to get thing back together again, but it is not impossable. The boat I restored went from weighing over 200 lbs back to the original weight of around 115 to 120 and is very race worthy and is a joy to sail. No hull deformations, no leaking, and very solid. Take your time and think it through.
Good luck.