Dealer: "older" boats more prone to leaks-not made as well.

nesdog

Member
I'm continuing my search for a boat. Found a '77 today in decent shape. Priced a bit high, I think, at 2K without a trailer. (should I offer 1200 or is that an insult?)

I contacted a dealer who sells Kitty Hawk trailers and while talking about them, he told me that I should be wary of purchasing this boat. He says that the newer boats are manufactured to a higher standard and that the '77 would be more likely to leak (not because it's older per se, but because it's not made as well).

First time I've heard this one but it's given me some pause. Yeah, would love to have a newer boat but either there aren't many around or I'm priced out.

Opinions?

Thanks....
 
$1200 for a '77 is not an insult. It should be in very good shape, have decent covers, a dolly, and the upgrades for that price, IMO.
 
Its all about the shape of the boat. Yes, methods of building boats have changed over time but if the boat is in exceptional shape, she should still be a sound boat.

1200 is more than fair... and, yes, it better come loaded. Be wary of origional spars.
 
Only things I can find on the boat are a few rough spots in the gel coat (which can be easily buffed out) and one broken grab rail. The mast step is clean and fresh. Centerboard trunk shows little damage from underneath. Spars are new as is the sail, maybe one or two seasons on them at most.

He is listing at 2K. I told him I was going to have to get a trailer which would be over $700 new. (not much around in used trailers I noticed.)

Prices seems all over the map but it's still a 32 year old boat. So perhaps I'll offer him the 1200 and see what happens. He will likely counter and then I'll have to decide what it's worth to me.

Meantime, it doesn't sound like the issue I originally posted on is a problem?

Really appreciate the feedback from the forum as I work through so many issues these past few weeks!
 
I think it's really difficult to address the "quality" of a boat made more than 30 years ago. It could have sat unused in climate-controlled storage that entire time. The fiberglass could still go soft.
 
Heres a photo of my two old boats. Orange Roughy is a '75 and Yellow Belly is '77. I purchased both a year ago. Both have not taken in any water while I've used them, mast step in good nick etc. Ive replaced the sheets and given the centre board and rudders a rub down and re varnish. Both have only ever been used in fresh water and always stored indoors. So far so good.
 

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Heres a photo of my two old boats. Orange Roughy is a '75 and Yellow Belly is '77. I purchased both a year ago. Both have not taken in any water while I've used them, mast step in good nick etc. Ive replaced the sheets and given the centre board and rudders a rub down and re varnish. Both have only ever been used in fresh water and always stored indoors. So far so good.

They look good. As they are the same vintage of the boat I'm looking over, do you mind if I ask how much you paid for them? As I posted earlier, the one I've looked over is priced at 2K..no trailer, no upgrades, decent shape. I'm thinking of offering 1200. It's quite a bit lower than his asking price however I know they guessed at the price.

I don't see much in the ways of used trailers around, so I suspect I'll need to spend 700 for a Kitty Hawk.

My only other possibility is driving 300 RT for a early 90's boat I've never seen that is supposedly in good shape.
 
I had a 73 boat last year that had a new sail and a custom made trailer. I paid to
much and sold it 4 mths later for 700. No upgrades I put new lines cleats and
blocks. I picked up a 90s' boat it sailed so much better I never weighed the old
one should be 130lbs. I would look toward a newer one if I were you, you live
and learn. Just read the thread "how to buy a used Laser" There was a guy last
year who got a Harbour Freight trailer and modified it for a Laser and did a hell of
a job. You can do a search and find it. Good luck .....
 
I did a search for the trailer and the user was "Sonex" just can't figure how to post it
on here yet. If used in freshwater this would be fine.
 
A boat that old is good for nothing. You would never race it and would only cause hassle's. Extra weight, rooted mast step etc. The most i would pay is 50 bucks then take a chainsaw 2 it and turn it into a hiking bench. Not worth the pain. In this day and age anything less then 140000 is going to suck.
 
"Anything older the 140000 is going to suck"

I would disagree. My first boat (75265) is still going strong, is in good shape and perfectly capable of winning at club level.

My second boat (150600) was, in my opinion, the fastest Laser I have owned (dont ask me why it just felt 'right').

My third boat (180831) I had from new. It was nice but did not feelt as quick as 150600.

My current boat (121821) is quick, I bought it because I wanted a boat I could jump in to a thrash round the cans having played in other classes for a few years. I sail the oldest boat at the club 9there are older but they do not sail much) and have no problems keeping up with the guys in their newer boats.

Hull condition is far more important. Give me a 30 year old boat that has only been sailed on fresh water and looked after than a 5 year old boat that has been hammered and abused and tarted up for sale!
 
In this case, the boat was raced by his sons. It's pretty clean for a 77. Mast step is pristine and true. The centerboard trunk, (yes I viewed from underneath) shows little chipping and requires no work. Sails and spars are newly replaced. Deck is solid and the gelcoat overall only needs a bit of buffing. A few small chips around the hull...that's about it.

What's going to make a boat slower is having a lot of water in the hull and that ultimately gets absorbed into the infrastructure. In a mostly dry hull, that should not be an issue.

And yes, sometimes a boat just 'feels right'...and that happens at any age.

Am I going to buy it? Don't know yet....the lack of trailer causes the price to go pretty high once I add it. So I'm looking at other boats as well.
 
As others have written, your proposal of $1200 seems fair. I reckon that the boat is dry and doesn't leak. Did you run a soap bubble test?
 
I looked it over and eyeballed everything. Given that this is a play boat and not a racer, I didn't want to get completely anal about white gloving the thing!
 
I might give $1200 for it, but would have to be in great shape, which it seems to be. I bought two older lasers, a 72ish for $400 (leaky mast step), and a 74ish for $700.... the first boat came with a trailer and no upgrades, the second boat came with the upgrades but no trailer.

My $0.02... you will WANT the upgrades, however the old spars aren't made for them. You will need to replace the vang tang on the lower section in order to fit the upgraded vang. You will need to modify the where the vang attaches to the boom and (I'm told) reinforce the boom itself. (these parts are readily available, though fitting them does involve removing and replacing rivets)

You can buy the upgrades new for about $600 (I think)... depending on if you want the new new blocks and the new clew sleeve etc...

Other things... the old cleats were plastic and will wear out if they havent already. Most of the deck fittings are screwed Into the fiberglass and are not 'through bolted' into the hull. This isnt a huge issue for anything but the traveler eyes, which can pull out (not fun in a blow)... to replace these fitting and properly through bolt them, you have to cut inspection ports in the deck.

When you cut the inspection ports in the deck, you will find large blocks of styrofoam wrapped in plastic. How do you get a 2 foot wide block of sytrofoam out of a 6" inspection port? Well, you reach into said inspection port and hack it up into little chunks, then bandage your hands and arms.

Evaluate your goals with the boat and if your goal is to eventually get it in racing shape, be aware that you are committing to a long and arduous process, and that process will cost you about half again the $1200 cost of the boat. The process is however quite rewarding and you do really get a sense of ownership of the boat. While it's certainly not practical, I do take some stock in such 'metaphysical' aspects of a boat.

If you want a boat that you can drop in the water and have a blast sailing around in, it seems that all you need is $1200.
 
Thanks for the detailed reply!

I will not likely be racing the boat. Rather, I'm looking for one to play with, downsizing from my Prindle 18 which is a lot of boat to solo sail in heavier breezes and nearly impossible to recover from a capsize alone. Since I sail the ocean, instead of a lake, this becomes a big issue. (for many years, we had a group launching from a beach watching out for each other, but those days are now gone.)

So the upgrades, while nice, aren't going to be a big deal. The spars are actually new so they may already be capable of handling modern parts if need be. Fittings I'll have to take my chances on. If I had the budget, I'd be looking at newer boats.

In 1976, I purchased a brand new Laser, same yellow color as this one I'm looking at.
If I end up getting this boat, my guess is I'll feel I overpaid...until the first screaming reach and then I won't care!
 
I offered 1K two days ago. I've heard nothing back from him at this time. My guess is he is still feeling out the market. Will let the forum know what happens.
 
I purchased an 86 that was in very very good condition - with a trailer but without the upgrades, for $1200. I think that might be a little high for a 77, but I guess it depends on where you are and what the market is.
 
He didn't go for my 1K and countered hundreds of dollars higher. In my view, still too high for a 77 without a trailer.
 
Agreed. You should be able to do much better for not a lot more money. Personally, for a boat that old, I would have offered less...
 
If 1977 Lasers are bring over $1500 in your part of the world. lets team up and ship a bunch your way. I have four 80s vintage boats in my yard right now that I will sell as a package for $4000. Two have trailers and for $4500 I will throw in those trailers. There are some extra parts, extra sails, extra lines and I can probably rustle up some life jackets as well.
You can sell three and keep a free boat and trailer for yourself!!!
 
Yeah, prices are really insane on some of these. This boat brand new wasn't this much!

I let him know I am passing on his boat for now. I left the door open for him to revisit this with me at another time if he wishes. I'll just keep looking around. If it takes me a few months or more to find a good boat, then that's what it will be. I can sail all winter!
 

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