Competitive Life of a Laser?

As mentioned in previous threads I was looking at restoring a 1984 Laser. Well the work is complete and I've got a friend who really wants to buy it and race it, however, he is worried about the competitive life span.

My question is this: Assume this hull is now perfectly smooth, weighs 131#, and was put into the proper hands could it be competitive with newly produced boats?

My first knee jerk reaction would be to say absolutely but would like a little confirmation.

Thanks.

Dan
 
IMHO, it's going to depend on the conditions the boat is sailed in vs how stiff the hull and deck are. For example, in flat water, you can get away with a hull that has gone soft, but in chop you want a stiff hull and deck.

So, if the hull and deck are as stiff as a new boat, then the answer should be an unequivocal yes (assuming blades/rig and sail are like new). If not, then the answer is a little more dependent on how soft the boat has become vs the conditions to be sailed in

You can always point him to following ad - http://www.laserforum.org/showthread.php?t=6927
Andrew took an old boat and crushed everyone at Cedar Point
 
I sold my first Laser, hull 45990, because it was too soft to be competitive. While making the decision on whether to replace it or not, I sailed the one I was thinking of buying, another used boat which was substantially newer, hull 152921. Both had only been raced and had been exquisitely cared for and were PERFECTLY smooth on the bottom, but I could immediately feel the difference in the newer one while sailing on an inland lake in about ten knots of wind. For a short time I had both boats, and found that when I knocked on the bottom of each the older, softer boat made a lower and duller sound. Sometime at a race try knocking on a few hulls (before they are in the water!) and see if you can hear the differences between a new boat, a middle aged one like mine, and an old boat. It's an interesting test of hull condition.

Jim
 
an 84? its competitive, but its not as stiff compared to a 2007, or even a 2004

its probably got a lot of bow and deck flex
 
If I push on the deck anywhere no flex is visible or felt. Seems to be pretty stiff to me. Granted probably not like a new boat, but still pretty good.
 
As Ross said, the only way to tell is by testing the flex about 1.5 ft aft of the bow and then all along the cockpit deck to ensure that it is stiff.

Where I would disagree however is that any boats from 2007 will necessarily be better than an 04 and better than an 84. This is simply not true. It really depends almost exclusively on the way the boat was sailed, cared for and stored. Just worry about the stiffness, not the year.

As an aside commentary and opinion - I would think that 95% of the sailors out there would be unable to tell the difference between a soft boat and a stiff boat on the water. I would bet that we'd all pretty much finish where we normally finish - it really doesn't make THAT much of a difference. Your friend (IMO) would be far better off on the water with a slightly mushy boat than sitting on shore waiting for a better one to come along. Unless you are ranked somewhere in the top of the class, I don't think you'd notice. My 2 cents - take it for what it is worth.
matt
 
if you sail in waves, you can tell the difference between a flexi and a stiff boat, when I moved to my current 02 from my 84, I could tell it was much stiffer in pounding chop and waves, the bow didn't absorb the waves
 
Ross,

I hear you - I do sail in waves here on the East Coast. Was out last week in broken 4 foot swells. Was sailing in the same 89 boat against guys in much newer boats. Switched boats - no difference - both in how it felt to me or my position in the fleet.

I honestly think it is like folks that polish the hell out of their boats. Some think it is a big advantage, some think it is mental, some don't care.

Whatever the case may be, I do think that it is more important to sail than to worry about the stiffness of my hull. That was my main point.

If we want to continue this, I suggest we start a different thread as this is not what was being asked. I hijacked it - sorry - Guilty as charged.

M

Matt
 
A well restored 84 would probably be a great boat for someone to get started in racing; I agree with Mawill that time in the boat matters more than stiffness. However, you or your friend might get to the point where stiffness matters. Cross that bridge when you get to it. I had a '98 for a few years as my learning curve went up (nice to have a beater-I crashed into stuff more in the beginning) and then I got an '05-I could feel an instant difference. The new hull was much stiffer and more buoyant-I had to learn how to sail it differently since it accelerated quicker but would stop sooner in chop.
 
I'm with Mawill - get a boat and go sailing.

Assuming your mate is like most of us, you have to compromise somewhere. Tell your mate that saving $1000 or so by buying a 1984 boat means that he can afford to take some time off work to go training......at the very least he can earn lots of brownie points with the family by taking the cheaper option. That extra training time, well spent, will make more difference to his speed than a newer boat.

For major events you can charter a new boat - but you can't hire the expertise only training gives you.

I went from a brand-new boat with a bottom that only once ever touched grass, to a beaten up 1977 boat. It can beat most of the recent world Masters champs. Downwind speed is actually quicker than the earlier brand-new boat. Upwind speed seemed off the pace but it turned out it was simply me being stupid and pinching a fraction.

Just watch Michael Blackburn sail an old club-owned beater and you'll see how fast an old boat can go. You can feel the difference with a new boat, but how much of that translates to speed is another matter.
 
I'm with Mawill - get a boat and go to a beaten up 1977 boat. It can beat most of the recent world Masters champs. Downwind speed is actually quicker than the brand-new boat. Upwind speed was simply stupid.

.


I am sold!!!


ASAP I am switiching to an old boat with a fully flexible deck, a ragged out Elvstrom sail, beat up wooden blades, a wood tiller with a groove from the traveler, the orginal rigging, and good old Sampson regatta braid for all the lines.

The Laser World championship will soon all be mine!!!

Just for the record, I am not Kobe Bryant and I do have a kitty in my lap.
 
Apologies, I should have said "most of the recent Masters world champs that the boat has raced against. That's 3 or 4 of them.

The downwind speed improvement was largely because I finally learned how to sheet properly on the runs, but some surmise that the old and worn mast tube may have allowed the rig to lean forward more.

Point is, the old boats can be quite competitive.
 
Apologies, I should have said "most of the recent Masters world champs that the boat has raced against. That's 3 or 4 of them.

The downwind speed improvement was largely because I finally learned how to sheet properly on the runs, but some surmise that the old and worn mast tube may have allowed the rig to lean forward more.

Point is, the old boats can be quite competitive.

And what is the secret of sheeting properly on the runs? And how much forward rake should I (accidentally while repairing it of course) induce in my mast tube to be fast?
 

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