Class legal?

Cavi

Member
My new to me laser has two cleats one on either isde for the mainsheet. I wouldrather have a central camcleat off the main block. Is that class legal?
 
You can have a cleat on the mainsheet block (IIRC) but this has been tried and discarded as it doesn't really work in a Laser.

Most people do not even have deck cleats (or if they do they do not use them).
 
I can't comment on class-legal or not, I just sail recreationally. But to add in another perspective, I put a single swivelling, ratcheting camcleat block on mine - something like this -

mainsheet block- Harken H187 (APS).jpg

For the way I sail, it's great. It's the "3rd hand" that I always wish I had - I can secure the sheet momentarily to do whatever else it is that I want that 3rd hand for, or simply to rest my grip or to get a different or better grip. It was pretty expensive, I think around $130 from APS. But I'm glad I did it, hopefully it'll last for years + years.
 
that one you put might just do the job, and yes, while racing I might elect not to use it, but in a soft wind day when just kicking around it is nice to have.
 
Cskudder,

I recently found someone who used this very ratcheting block with great success on his Sunfish. Except he reversed the hardware.... flipping the cam from upside down to right side up. See the attached photo.
Ratcheting Block And Cam Cleat.jpg

So, I got one, flipped it too like you see in the photo, then mounted it on my Laser. I got this ratchet/cam cleat block set up because I wanted to have this "3rd hand" for my wife as she learned to sail the Laser. So she only had to take a slack main sheet across the boat in her hand while learning how to tack.

But with the cam cleat flipped, it was completely useless. The main sheet wouldn't stay because of the geometry of how the main sheet pulls up on the block side of the set up.

So, here's my question. How well does the main sheet stay cleated on your Laser with your ratcheted block with the cam cleat in the original, "facing down" position? And, with that little fairlead on it, how often does your sheeting out come to an abrupt stop because a twist/knot won't go through the fairlead?

Thanks,

- Andy
 
andy that block you show in the picture looks different, I do not know if the Harken one that they were talking about can be inverted. What is the brand and model of the one you are showing?
 
Cavi, I have used both deck mounted cam cleats and a cam cleat under the mainsheet block and I think the deck mounted ones worked better, as was obseved by Jeffers above.
 
andy that block you show in the picture looks different, I do not know if the Harken one that they were talking about can be inverted. What is the brand and model of the one you are showing?

Here's the one that appears in the photo I inserted in my post above.

http://www.mauriprosailing.com/us/product/HAR2138.html?gclid=CIyY-uvr274CFVJefgodS0IAOA

The Sunfish guy just took the cam cleat, flipped it over, removed the fairlead, then put the bolts back in.

Yours looks a little bit different, mainly that it looks like you can adjust the angle of the cam cleat as it relates to the main sheet coming out from the bottom of the block.

So, with the H187 you have, how well does the cam cleat hold the main sheet? Does it tend to drop it easily... like if you tug on it a bit accidentally?

- Andy
 
the one on the sunfish lookslike the harken 2615, which is a 57 mm with cleat. From what I can see in harken's pictures it looks like the plates that hold the cam can be inverted so you could still use the cam and fairleed but pointing upwards. I am not sure the way the guy with the sunfish did it if it will work very well, or as well as if he had flipped the plates over to get the cam lower and not affect the departure angle of the sheep from the bottom of the block. As for your question on how it releases if left upside down. I am not sure, but considering where you are when you hike out I would be worried that you would not be able to release the rope from the cleat, as the rope will be rubbing on the side of the boat, so how would you pull down to release it? woud would have t oquit hiking out first?
 
Actually the more I think about it the more I think the sunfish guy had it right. I hope he did because I bought the same one as him. I might end up running it exactly that way. I think that way it probably will not interfer much, it is just a question of getting the cleat low enough that the rope will not lock when you do not want it to.
 
Cskudder,

I recently found someone who used this very ratcheting block with great success on his Sunfish. Except he reversed the hardware.... flipping the cam from upside down to right side up.

So, I got one, flipped it too like you see in the photo, then mounted it on my Laser. I got this ratchet/cam cleat block set up because I wanted to have this "3rd hand" for my wife as she learned to sail the Laser. So she only had to take a slack main sheet across the boat in her hand while learning how to tack.

But with the cam cleat flipped, it was completely useless. The main sheet wouldn't stay because of the geometry of how the main sheet pulls up on the block side of the set up.

So, here's my question. How well does the main sheet stay cleated on your Laser with your ratcheted block with the cam cleat in the original, "facing down" position? And, with that little fairlead on it, how often does your sheeting out come to an abrupt stop because a twist/knot won't go through the fairlead?

Thanks,
- Andy

Andy, you can flip the cams to face up or down on this one I have as well. I tried both ways and I like it a whole lot better with the cams facing down. I've been real happy with mine. I can get the sheet into the cams and cleated very dependably when I want, and get it out fast and reliably when I need. The block/camcleat stands up at a different angle when the boom is sheeted in tight, than when it's eased way out. I tried a couple different angles for the cam "arms" on the sides of the block, before settling on where I like it, but once settled + after getting used to how to get the sheet in + out of it --- I'm real pleased with it. Directly to your question, I've never had the sheet come out of it accidentally, or anytime except when I deliberately pulled it out myself.

As to tangling/knotting interfering with easing- I had just a ratcheting block (no cam cleat) there before I got this. There's no difference in tangling/fouling cuz of the cams or the little fairlead. It would occasionally foul with the old one, and still does once in a while with this one, but certainly no real difference. I also tie the end of the mainsheet around the hiking strap which seems to minimize random twisting, minimizing tangles.

The one thing I'll mention is that when tacking, I make a point of keeping the sheet out of the cams, so I can ease the sail to where I want it as I bear off onto the new tack. Occasionally I've inadvertently pulled the sheet up into the cams, cleating it, and of course that opens the possibility of being overtrimmed+ possibly getting blown over on the new tack.
 
how about when you are hiked out, have you had any trouble getting the sheet out of the cleet?
 
Cskudder,

So, do you have the H187 that you have a picture of above or do you have this one? Here's a picture of it.

Harken 57 mm block and cam cleat.jpg


I've got the one you see in the photo above. When I got it, at first glance it didn't look like you could adjust the angle of the cam cleat as it relates to the main sheet exiting the block. But after remembering yesterday that the Sunfish guy said you could adjust the cam cleat angle, I started unscrewing the center bolt... half expecting the bearings to come dropping out when I started pulling the hardware apart (the finish is very clean... doesn't look like you can take it apart).

But they didn't. Turns out this unit does allow for the angle of the cam cleat to be adjusted through a wide range. So that's nice. Personally, I much prefer just having two cam cleats mounted well forward on the deck and cleating there when need be.

I got the above block and cam cleat set up for 2 Sunfishes I have back east. But the Sunfish guy had such great success with it that I thought I'd see how it worked on my Laser so my wife could learn to tack in light winds without having to bring the whole main sheet across with her, switch the tiller from one hand to another, while trying to figure out how to deal with a main sheet in her hand getting loaded up by a filling sail.

It has become apparent that in order to get a unit like this to work, the cam angle is the key... as you point out. On a Sunfish, the unit is mounted up high on the deck. In a Laser, it's mounted down quite a bit lower, so the angle that you are pulling on the sheet is different.

Nice to hear that you have tried this approach out and gotten it to work. Something like this is also good for when you've got someone else on board forward of the cockpit, they have their legs inside the cockpit and they don't want the main sheet over their legs and cleated when you're using the two cam cleats mounted on the deck.

Cheers,

- Andy :)
 
This is the one I ordered, and it also does allow for angle adjustment. I hope to have mine for this weekend to try it out.
Excellent. I plan on semi rigging my boat in the yard in the next couple of days and playing with the cam angle adjustment. When I get the right angle, I'll make a short video and post it here.

- Andy
 
Andy, what is that sail on your boat in your avatar? Is it the Laser Trubo, suaretop from Hansen sails?
 
Andy, what is that sail on your boat in your avatar? Is it the Laser Trubo, suaretop from Hansen sails?

Yes, it's one of the Hansen sails. Only, it's not me. Being a mono film, no flutter, windsurfing guy, I found this sail appealing. Here's the original photo.

Laser_Turbo_29b2.jpg


- Andy
 
I have one of those very sails sitting in my garage, only mine is black instead of white. I originally bought it to run on my force 5, but now that I have the laser it will end up on there in a couple of weeks or months. I just need some more time on the Laser to get used to it. As bad as it sounds the Laser is quite a bit different from the force 5 even though they are essentially soo similar. The Laser seems more racey, less stable, don';t quite know how to put it. Either way I need some time to get the feel for the boat before I jump to the power of the Hansen sail. Since I am a bigger guy I figure the Hansen will benefit me. Do you feel much difference, like more weather helm?
 
It is funny, my hansen only has the clear simple mylar, while yours has quite a bit of the reinforced mylar, lucky you!!!
 
Ok, now you're making me jealous! Because I don't own one. :( Just been drooling over them cause they look so nice.

So, do you know if they still make them for the Laser? Something to dream about.

- Andy
 
Yes they are still selling them, they are made for a Laser, but they fit a Force 5 as long as you cut down the mid section of the force 5 mast. Either way, they look great, I will tell you more in a couple of months after i run it on my laser!! They are a bit spendy, but I am sure they will be worth it.
 
Back to the mainsheet blocks- Andy/Cavi, you're right- I have the Harken 2138, as you pictured. Here's a couple pics of it on the boat -

mainsheet block mine.jpg

mainsheet block mine closeup.jpg

And yes getting the angle how I like it took a couple tries. I also tried the cams facing up but didn't like it. For others- remove the 3 small screws around the stainless ring to re-position the cam plate.

Cavi- it works well for me, even or especially when I'm hiked out. I can get the line in+out of it when I want, and it doesn't get in or come out UNLESS I want.

Somebody mentioned having somebody else on board. I occasionally take my bride or one of our kids out. Having the central block+cam is great when there's somebody else on board, for controlling the sail without really irritating the passenger. And also getting those big jam cleats OFF the deck was a HUGE step forward in making it actually comfortable + enjoyable for the 2nd person. That little part of the deck (where the cleats were) seems to be the best place for somebody to sit, or maybe one of the few or the only decent place to sit. I got more convinced on that myself when my kids get in the back + sail it for initial sailing lessons. I'm very glad to have those deck cleats gone. Anyway to each his own on the sheet cleats etc.

That mylar sail looks like a kick. Is it really 120 sq feet? I'll bet that's a monster in anything but a light breeze, or unless you're heavier and/or a whole lotta better hiker than me.
 
a carbon rig might be nice with that hanson!

and to the original question, there aren't that many times I would use cleats on my laser, I know a couple of people that like them and have found them useful, if you have trouble holding the main, I'd try a different main block and probably a different main sheet (I've got a nice Ronstan main block in the classifieds, I switched t6o a thinner main sheet and smaller ronstan block, I feel I can trim a bit faster and get better feel)
 
I installed my block yesterday and mounted about the same as yours. I am not sold on tbe upside down cleat. To lock was easy but unlocking under tension was not easy. I had to pull back first then down. If I tried straight down it would not release the spring tension was not enough so the whole block would move. I will try a d flip it upside down wher the cleats face upwards. Dont get me wrong I could learn to live with it
 
update, I flipped the cam cleat upside down so it is facing upwards like in the picture of the sunfish. It functions almost great now, it does not get in the way and works okay, I need to change the angle slightly but deffinitly an improvement over the downward facing cleat. Now I can cleat in when I want and I can uncleat real easy and there is no fear of it cleating by mistake. When it was facing down, it was tough to cleat and worse, there were times it was tough to uncleat due to sa soft spring.
 
update, I flipped the cam cleat upside down so it is facing upwards like in the picture of the sunfish. It functions almost great now, it does not get in the way and works okay, I need to change the angle slightly but deffinitly an improvement over the downward facing cleat. Now I can cleat in when I want and I can uncleat real easy and there is no fear of it cleating by mistake. When it was facing down, it was tough to cleat and worse, there were times it was tough to uncleat due to sa soft spring.

Glad you found a way you're happy with - hope you get a bunch of fun on the water with it.
 
I am sure I will, had lots of fun last friday, and this Friday holds more of the same wind permitting!!
 
As bad as this sounds, after sailing the boat with the central cleat, I have decided to remove it, it does get in the way too many times...... Back to a single ratcheting block and just the cleats on the side of the boat!!
 
As bad as this sounds, after sailing the boat with the central cleat, I have decided to remove it, it does get in the way too many times...... Back to a single ratcheting block and just the cleats on the side of the boat!!

Thought you might find that out but it may have worked for you.
 

Back
Top