Chart for in laser (cunningham etc)?...

R

Reon

New Member
Hi i am looking for a chart that helps me set the Vang cunningham etc to put into the laser.:confused: It is a full size rig. I currently have one on the boat (bought it yesterday) but it is for the radial rig.... i have tried searching etc. if anyone can post a link or know what im talking about ... cheers! :D
 
Hey thanks for the reply... however not quite what i was after ... i try and re-explain :eek: I have a chart that was laminated and taped to the boat that had the different measurements for the cunningham... vang ... O? MS ?? for the different wind speeds .... just wandering if there was one for the full rig somewhere on the wwweb :D

for example... the one i have for radial has something like

W.......... MS.......... O............ C.......... V
0 (knots) 10".......... 2xF 8"..... No Wr ..10" + 4"
3 ...........8" ...........2xF 8"..... No Wr ..10 + 4"
6 CI Gun 2"-4" .........2xF 8" .....No Wr ..2" + 4"
8
10
12
14
16
18
etc
(edit.. sorry about dots but forum deletes spaces )
I am yet to even rig my new laser :rolleyes: but i was very competitive once on the 505's (even went into the under 19 worlds when in Aus 1993) and i have forgotten much over the last 7 years of not sailing and i have 3 weeks to cram as much as i can before sailing starts up agin :D

Thanks again for help ;)
 
I don't think you'll find anything that detailed anywhere here. I'm sure whoever owned it before you would have worked that out specific to his particular sail etc.
There are many other posts here on tuning - try a search - I came up with
http://www.laserforum.org/showthread.php?t=3158&highlight=tuning
If you only have 3 weeks I'd recommend getting the basic guidelines (if you're overpowered pull everything tighter, in order of cunningham, vang, outhaul) and then got out practising as much as possible.
 
ok .. to easy .. thanks for help .. he said he found it on the web :D i'm looking forward to going out sailing and working out this boat :p
 
abenn said:
I don't think you'll find anything that detailed anywhere here. I'm sure whoever owned it before you would have worked that out specific to his particular sail etc.
There are many other posts here on tuning - try a search - I came up with
http://www.laserforum.org/showthread.php?t=3158&highlight=tuning
If you only have 3 weeks I'd recommend getting the basic guidelines (if you're overpowered pull everything tighter, in order of cunningham, vang, outhaul) and then got out practising as much as possible.
Click to expand...



yea, the basic guide for tuning a Laser is pretty basic, keep pulling everything on till the wrinkles are out, and if overpowered, crank it on
 
Not answering the question, but most Laser specific books have the info on sail adjustment for conditions - and I would probably be breaking copyright were I to copy and post them here.

Another aspect to consider is how much power you can take in the rig - which I guess is not only related to the wind but also your height and weight, experience, waves, etc. (i.e. the point at which you start to need to de-power the rig). Also, different for different points of sailing.

I am trying to learn the sail settings in relation to de-powering as the wind gets a bit too much and the adjustments to sail shape with the different points of sailing.

Ian
 
cheers i have 2 laser books that i ordered through the library today .. will arrive in 48 hrs :D

at the moment im a fat bastard.. so weight is not a prob :p

thanks for input
 
Hi Reon,

A couple of years ago I built the following table for a Radial based on Ryan Minth's guide which you can find on the Int Laser NA site. Again sorry for the formatting - the space deletion on copy pasting is a bit of a pain.

Knots…Body position…Outhaul "…..Cunn %……Main.”………Vang

0-3…..drift……………....10………….....5…………....14………………snug
3……………..………….......8………….....10……….....10………………snug
6……..on rail……………....8………….....15……….....6……………….snug
8……..Soft hike…………...8………….....30……….....4……………….snug
10……fully hiked………....8………….....35……….....2……………….snug
12……max hike…………....8………….....65………....1.5……………..snug
14……max hike…………....8………….....65………....1.5……………..snug+
15……max hike…………....8………….....75……….....1.5……………..snug+
16……max hike…………....8………….....75……….....1.5……………..snug++
17……max hike…………....8………….....85………......1.5……………..snug++
18……max hike………....…8………....….95………......1.5……………..snug+++
18+….max hike…………...6………….....100……….....1.5……………..huge

I find it is better to relate settings to your body position up to maximum hike and a guess at wind speed beyond that. You will need to read Ryan's article to interpret the definition of these settings. These settings are a good starting point for a full rig also.

The advice on the Rooster web site is also helpful in building this sort of table. Steve gives some emphasis on minimizing the use of vang tension up to fully hiked to reduce mast bend and thus provoke more rig power and pointing ability up to those wind speeds.

I have also found that above a certain windspeed - for me it is above 25knots huge vang is a problem particularly in lumpy seas. The boat will round up and stop too easily. When it gets to that I let the vang off a bit and the boat becomes easier to sail.

I would suggest that you read Ryan's and Steve's articles and also the books you have ordered and rationalize setting that are far simpler than the table above implies. By coming up with your own simple solution and then practicing on the water you should fast track some good boat speed.
 
Interesting table Clive -very thorough. I read Ryans article ages ago and found it the best guide specific to the radial. I suppose I'm going off on another angle to this thread here, but what about the outhaul setting for light/drifter ? I see here your table says just keep making it looser i.e. 10". What do others think about the theory that it should be tightened up again when it gets really light, because the very light winds can't "stick" to a strongly curved sail. I've never been able to work this out for myself, with some guys in our fleet going for the "baggy is power" look, and others making it more flat. I can't see which one seems to be faster - probably because in light winds everything's so slow its hard to judge. Anyone done a side by side test ?
 
Reon said:
cheers i have 2 laser books that i ordered through the library today .. will arrive in 48 hrs :D

at the moment im a fat bastard.. so weight is not a prob :p

thanks for input
Click to expand...


This is not the forum to address your weight problem or the fact your parents were not married when you were conceived but...

Vangs and cunninghams and outhauls and mainsheets and your already described ample personal ballast each need to be adjusted according to so many factors it sometimes seems overwhelming.

But.

A chart sure would be nice.

I will make one right now and post in on my website

It will be posted as
http://www.schrothfiberglass.com/Tuninguide.htm


warning: It may or may not actually be accurate even for me.
 
abenn said:
but what about the outhaul setting for light/drifter ? I see here your table says just keep making it looser i.e. 10". What do others think about the theory that it should be tightened up again when it gets really light, because the very light winds can't "stick" to a strongly curved sail. I've never been able to work this out for myself, with some guys in our fleet going for the "baggy is power" look, and others making it more flat. I can't see which one seems to be faster - probably because in light winds everything's so slow its hard to judge. Anyone done a side by side test ?
Click to expand...

Haven't done a side by side test, but "going by feel", you can get too baggy even in strong winds. It "feels" like you get to a point where you're not powering up anymore - some people refer to it as added "drag". It's especially noticeable on a reach.

I agree with tightening the outhaul when things get very light. Though I would leave the cunningham off completely and then tighten up the outhaul, letting the outhaul do both functions while creating a finer entry.

It's a compromise. Theory says moving draft forward = more power, but as you note, if the wind can't get round the bull nose shape of the luff without delaminating ...what to do?

As with most rules of thumb like the "keep tightening" rule, they are loaded with exceptions. I think it's a good enough start point though.
 
I have head there are simple regulations/agreements at the pro level, how to mark the lines (f.e.: outhaul (15/20/25/30 cm from the fairead of the end of the boom to the grommet of the edge of the sail), vang (32/42/56/60/65/70 cm mark)) for the trim of the sail. It is to difficult for me to explain in English, but perhaps someone is able to ask a pro about that and how such a trimmbook is made simple.

Ciao
LooserLu
 
gouvernail said:
This is not the forum to address your weight problem or the fact your parents were not married when you were conceived but...

Vangs and cunninghams and outhauls and mainsheets and your already described ample personal ballast each need to be adjusted according to so many factors it sometimes seems overwhelming.

But.

A chart sure would be nice.

I will make one right now and post in on my website

It will be posted as
http://www.schrothfiberglass.com/Tuninguide.htm


warning: It may or may not actually be accurate even for me.
Click to expand...

Thanks for that ... looking forward to rigging it for the first time :rolleyes:
 
The chart on my site was written in the middle of the night and I had not ben sailing for a week when I made it up. I will do my best to actually take real measurements from time to time ad add those measurements to the chart.

if anybody has measurements or "corrections" for the charts, please feel free to coach me.
The charts are here>>
http://www.schrothfiberglass.com/Tuninguide.htm

Also, if anybody has a chart of his own and wants to send it to me,I will happily give proper credit to the author and add that chart to the page.
My site's home page has a "contact Fred" link at the bottom.
Note: I am paranoid about attachments. Please send a warning email describing the attachment before sending any attachments...or I will do the proper "I am not that computer savvy" thing and delete the email with unknown attachment.
 
Re question of outhaul setting in Drifter/light conditions.

If it is a a drifter (too light for a breeze) and you are on flat water (small lake) it can be beneficial to slightly reduce max camber to encourage flow.

But if there are occasional gust onslaughts of 2-3kts, sometimes acceleration is better with a slightly more camber. If there is residual chop a bit more camber also seems to work, particularly if you work the boat to osscilate with the chop.

Theoretically in the really light air the sail should be flatter - but in practice the air can be rough in patches (downdrafts etc.) so you cannot generalise, just experiment and find the right balance on the day for the conditions at hand - this is the main benefit of new adjustment options i.e. you can adjust on the water instead of pre-setting a guestimate on the beach.
 
lol after reading the 2 laser books i got from the library today i am no where near as nervous anymore... I practically had all of the knowledge that was in the books from racing the 505 and 125. one thing i am going to try is the PVC pipe on the boom to tie the rope onto.. :D
 
The chart I supplied a few days ago is a good starting point but is not actually what I am using currently. This has prompted me to sit down and sketch out something closer to the truth of what I use at the moment. This chart is simpler. Upwind it relates to body position. The upwind vang settings are the gap between the rear mainsheet block and the traveler block with no main sheet tension. Run vang settings are the amount of vang to depress the end of the boom by the specified amount. Outhaul settings are based on the distance between the unused cleat on the boom and the sail. Upwind in waves (that can slow the boat) I am using a little more cunningham (to move the draft forward) and less outhaul tension for increased drive. When the wind strength gets so high the boat just wants to round up less vang will actually be faster. When the wind gets to survival strength vang goes further off letting the leach go with only enough main to get the drive you can handle. Comments?
 

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"PVC pipe on the boom" !!!!!!! Reon - what are you doing ?? Do a search for "one design" on this forum and let yourself in to the galaxy of debate on whats allowed and what's not allowed on the laser. While using the PVC pipe might be a 10c solution to replace the new $50 stainless steel outhaul sleeve, it is illegal. As usual your buddies at the local club might just smile and let you get away with it, but watch out if you ever attend any kind of official event - the measurers'll get you.
 
really? then why would it be in the laser book .. "the Complete book of laser sailing" by Dick Tillman.. published in 2005? if it is illegal then i'll just buy the stainless sleeve... ...

[edit] ok the book says unofficially used .. and looking at getting the rule change :p ... i think i'll just order the stainless ... however i think the fleet here in Cairns won't mind a pvc pipe tooo much ;) [end edit]
 
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