can these cracks be fixed?

lajos

New Member
Hello,

I'm looking at buying a Sunfish, on a budget. I've found a boat (early 70s) with some cracks on the hull. I would like to ask your opinion if these are fixable.

Any help appreciated. Thanks,
-lajos

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The center board trunk takes lots of stress, fixing it might be very tricky. You'll have to put inspection ports in to be able to tell how bad she is on the inside.

easy fix, nope. just my opinion..
how much are they asking?
more pictures would help..
 
$300??? just for the shell?

i'd expect to see some decent hardware on her, dagger, rudder, sail, mast, spars etc.


mock estimate for fixup
new dagger- $200
new rudder-$250
new sail $300
etc.

plus atleast 20hours manual labor and cost of materials to fix it.
 
$300 for the whole sailboat, including hardware and sail. I will try to get some more pictures.

I don't mind doing the work, as long as it's fixable...
 
well, if you're going to fix her you have many people here that would be happy to help you out.

everything looks fixable, just might not be easy..

the interior floats might also be in bad shape. was it kept covered?
did you check for softspots?
is the fiberglass still flexible or does it crack loud when you put pressure on it??
is the hull free of bulges?
did you pull at the seams on the sail to make sure they hold?
 
Supposedly the dropped something on it, that's how that hole is there.

Thanks for the list of things to check. I will do all that next time I see it.
 
Patience is key when buying a SF on a budget, if you're willing to wait and continually scan ads and craigslist eventually something far better is going to pop up. I got a nice '76 SF in sailable condition for $200 by waiting until I found the right posting.
 
i got mine fur freee.

the guy was like "haul it off to the dump"!
"i've always wanted my own Sunfish", i said!

pics below.

came with a nice racing sail..
i dont mean to brag.. but there are soo many out there in closets and such. i dream of it~

and they dream to be found..
 
Unlike a Cessna, I'll bet a SF has never been parted out due to due to mouse pee.


That's not some cracks, that's major cracks and holes. The crack near the tub is a compound curve, going to take a lot of manual sanding work.

I'd only pay $50 if:
1. I had experience with major fiberglass repairs and wanted to practice.
2. I was good with gel coat, (I suck).
3. All the parts were there.

Usable SF around my area are about $250 for fair condition, ready to sail.
 
I have been watching this very same boat, on Craig's List, for a while now. I think he ( the current seller) is over simplifing the discription/ repairs and how easy it is to car top it.
I paid $100 for one of mine a year ago, and it needed similar repairs . I wouldn't touch it for anything over $100. You will need a lot of elbow grease, and glass work, which will take time from sailing it this season( and some money). You can find one in better shape for just a little more money, and be out sailing it and repairing/ upgrading at your liesure ( unless you are looking for a long term project for winter).

Just my thoughts on it....
 
I bought a 74 for $250 an sailed it the day I bought it. Anything is fixable if you have the ability and the time. $300 for a boat that is going to require alot of work sound like a lot to me. I'd be patient and look for one that you can sail right away and not you have to work on till next spring.
 
well, if you're going to fix her you have many people here that would be happy to help you out.

everything looks fixable, just might not be easy..

the interior floats might also be in bad shape. was it kept covered?
did you check for softspots?
is the fiberglass still flexible or does it crack loud when you put pressure on it??
is the hull free of bulges?
did you pull at the seams on the sail to make sure they hold?

what causes bulges in the hull and fiberglass to crack when pressure is put on it? I recently bought a sunfish and am facing these problems. Are they big issues?
 
what causes bulges in the hull and fiberglass to crack when pressure is put on it? I recently bought a sunfish and am facing these problems. Are they big issues?
Pictures would be a big help in providing some insight.

Basketball size or larger, quarter size and smaller?
 
maybe about the size of your hand if you were to lay it on the hull. Not very raised but still noticeable in the right light.. I will try and post some pics
 
what causes bulges in the hull and fiberglass to crack when pressure is put on it? I recently bought a sunfish and am facing these problems. Are they big issues?


the cracks you hear are not good. Fiberglass is like your skin.. you put lotion on your skin to keep it from cracking and for it to be smoother.

fiberglass has petroleums inside it to keep it healthy. for example when you wax the boat it is like putting lotion or sunblock on your skin, when you put rubbing compound on your boat that is like a micro derm abrasion on your skin..

by checking the condition of the fiberglass you can tell if your boat has been cared for..
 
...Here is an example of a possible boat, that may be priced right for you, and fairly close, when comparing to that one in Nashua [email protected] Of Course you would have to look at it and above all, act fast! The deals that pop up usually are being watched by others who are searching too! The money that you will need to pump into the SF from Nashua can easily be used to get a boat that is ready to sail (now)....I noticed that his (the Nashua SF) price has been coming down in the past several monthes,.... there is a reason, ( at his price), it isn't in demand !
 
I'm a new owner of a 2004 fish that has just developed some hairline cracks on both sides of the deck, just aft of the cockpit. I think they are the result of trailer bunks --- that's another issue -- but I'm wondering if these cracks may be symptoms of a structural problem? and if not, do I need to fix them?

Your thoughts and suggestions are greatly appreciated.
Claudia
 

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Just an aside..., when you have a problem like one you run across in another discussion, you would be doing yourself a favor to begin a new topic so your similar, but unique issue is the focus of attention and not an afterthought to somebody else's troubles.


I'm a new owner of a 2004 fish that has just developed some hairline cracks on both sides of the deck, just aft of the cockpit. I think they are the result of trailer bunks --- that's another issue -- but I'm wondering if these cracks may be symptoms of a structural problem? and if not, do I need to fix them?
The cracks are definitely bigger than you'd get from gelcoat weathering. If I'm viewing the location correctly, those appear to be inline with the wall of the foot well storage cubby. Since the cubby does not make direct contact with the hull bottom, but rather is supported by a couple of inches of styrofoam, it seems more logical to me this crack is the result of some sort of impact or heavy force from the deck side. Judging by the slight circular nature, epicenter is likely to be a few inches outward from the cracks. Six year olds using the deck as a trampoline are the most common structural problem for this type of damage.

It would be wise to chip away all the loose gelcoat, inspect for underlying broken fiberglass fabric, and repair/re-gelcoat as needed to prevent water from getting into the fabric layers.
 

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Howdy, I'm throwing a stress crack photo in for analysis. I'm looking into buying this boat, and the seller has obliged me with a ton of pictures and highlighted cracks in the cockpit. He thinks they are just cracks in the gelcoat and says no flexing, soft spots, or crackles appear when it is pushed on. I've poked around on threads and looked at manuals about different cracks and what they could mean, but I AM a newbie, so I need another opinion. Are these just something I can epoxy over and be good, or is there something I should be looking for when I go out to see the boat (aside from hard, soft, flexing, etc.)?

Thanks!
 

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Howdy, I'm throwing a stress crack photo in for analysis. I'm looking into buying this boat, and the seller has obliged me with a ton of pictures and highlighted cracks in the cockpit. He thinks they are just cracks in the gelcoat and says no flexing, soft spots, or crackles appear when it is pushed on. I've poked around on threads and looked at manuals about different cracks and what they could mean, but I AM a newbie, so I need another opinion. Are these just something I can epoxy over and be good, or is there something I should be looking for when I go out to see the boat (aside from hard, soft, flexing, etc.)?

Thanks!

I generally like those '60's hulls a lot, but that one has been painted over, including the cockpit. My guess is that the owner thought that painting would obscure the underlying cracks, but it obviously didn't. I'm shy about buying painted hulls, partly for this reason. At this point fixing the gel coat may be problematic. The cracks may not be all that much of a problem, but you would want to look at the underlying hull to see if there is a corresponding problem. Unfortunately I'll bet that has been painted too.

Now I'm going to digress a bit. Stiffness is good, but let me confess to a trick that I used once where I had a cracked cockpit. This instance was in a Minifish, but the principal applies. I was fixing a cracked cockpit floor and wanted to stop the flexing. I also didn't want to reinforce it so much that I was just transferring stress to the hull below. I put some small holes in the cockpit floor large enough for the Great Stuff (expanding foam) nozzle to fit, and let it rip. I had a firm floor in minutes - and the underlying hull felt good, too. I patched and painted the cockpit floor, and no one would be the wiser. That's certainly not a workmanlike or long-term solution, to say the least, and if I ever were to sell the hull (I won't) I'd fess up. But the point is with painted Sunfish it's hard to tell what's going on.

Still, I have a soft spot for hulls like the one pictured. I'd weigh it just to see if it was a potential keeper. But I wouldn't attach any premium to the paint job on that boat. To the contrary, that adds an element of the unknown, so I'd be critical.

If the rudder conversion has been done on that boat (and done correctly, as evident hrough a rear inspection port), that's a plus. In fact, rather than me ramble on, you might read Dan's Windline article on buying a Sunfish. But to your question, if your thought was to patch those cracks in some manner, you will have to deal with the layer of paint.
 
minifish, I have seen the before painting pictures of all sides of the boat. The owner said he didn't redo the gelcoat because he felt more comfortable working with paint (and I've read gelcoat is trickier). The bare hull and deck looked in good shape, so I'm not too nervous about the "what are you hiding under there?" problem that can come with a new paint job. We'll bring a couple of scales and try to weigh it even though we've been told it was weighed not long ago and came in at 130 (he was surprised, too, and decided not to do an inspection port because of it). This is a no pressure sale, btw, the seller just wants to make sure we are unsurprised and confident before we drive the distance to get it.

Would doing one of those MarineTex (or was it West?) epoxy jobs on the bottom help? I'll be pushing to see if there is too much flex (have practice on a project boat we looked at but walked away from). I'll definitely keep that Great Stuff foam trick in mind, though I could totally see us putting a hole straight through the boat with our zealous but unrefined DIY skills. :eek:

The rudder is still the original style (I've seen the pics) and the hardware seems to be in better shape than our club boats! We know conversion could be up to $300 down the road, but we don't plan on doing any racing. I have read Dan's article (one of the first I came across). I'm too the point where my brain is second guessing itself "is that crazing or alligatoring? is that normal wear or is it delaminating?" We'll put an inspection port in this winter, if we get this boat, since that's what everyone says to do to keep it dry (and have a cup holder, ha).

When the weather cooperates, I'm going to inspect the older, beat up Sunfish at the club that we've been sailing just fine in. It's a late 70s/early 80s (I can't remember exactly) and has been abused by the sailing school, so I figure that might be a decent comparison. It's gelcoat could use a polish, too.
 
minifish, I have seen the before painting pictures of all sides of the boat......

.......Would doing one of those MarineTex (or was it West?) epoxy jobs on the bottom help? I'll be pushing to see if there is too much flex (have practice on a project boat we looked at but walked away from). I'll definitely keep that Great Stuff foam trick in mind, though I could totally see us putting a hole straight through the boat with our zealous but unrefined DIY skills. :eek:

The rudder is still the original style (I've seen the pics) and the hardware seems to be in better shape than our club boats! We know conversion could be up to $300 down the road, but we don't plan on doing any racing. I have read Dan's article (one of the first I came across). I'm too the point where my brain is second guessing itself "is that crazing or alligatoring? is that normal wear or is it delaminating?" We'll put an inspection port in this winter, if we get this boat, since that's what everyone says to do to keep it dry (and have a cup holder, ha).......
.

Sounds good so far. My suspicion is that what you see is what you will get, meaning the hairline cracks are there to stay. If down the line you have a problem and the cracks expand or become more serious so you are worried about them, I might consider - consider - full patch over the bottom of the cockpit, after removing the paint. If done right (a story for another thread) it can look like it was always that way, and it will be durable. In other words, I wouldn't stress over those stress cracks. I'd much, much rather be dealing with that than hull cracks.

Oh, let's not mention to anyone else about that Great Stuff business - that was one of those days of combined frustration and laziness. I wouldn't recommend anything like that.

Good luck with it.
 
Oh, let's not mention to anyone else about that Great Stuff business - that was one of those days of combined frustration and laziness

Haha, noted.

If it's cosmetic, I don't really care. If it's one of those "fix it now, save yourself pain down the road" and it's not a hard or expensive fix, I'm also okay with that. Anything in our budget will need something sooner than later. I just want to avoid the BIG stuff coming SOON. Because I saw big pics of the hull before the paint job, I think it's just surface stuff. I'll poke, prod, and sound tap on inspection, tho.

Interesting note, we looked at a boat that had very chalked gelcoat and crazing, but the worrisome part was all the different returns on tapping. And you didn't have to push much to get lots of flex. I did love the guy saying sailed "5 or 10 times" this summer ... but there were cobwebs and mouse poop in the cockpit. Yeah .... :rolleyes: Weirdly enough, the sail was pretty crisp, the mast looked in good shape, etc. Considered lowballing him to get the parts & trailer and then putting the boat up here or on CL for free as a project for anyone who wanted it.
 
As long as you are not breaking the budget with this boat, I wouldn''t stress too much. Three things I tend to avoid - really heavy project boats ( unless the price is compelling enough to put ports in and let it ventilate for a year); leaking daggerboard trunks and busted mast steps, both of which can be devilish; and major cave-ins, like on the keel or chines. Since you are clear of those, most else is manageable. Unless I was getting a recent worlds boat or something I wouldn't put much value on a used sail - those nice Intensity $135 sails took care of that issue. I'd discount the old-style rudder.

I'd put two ports in that boat, one behind the splash guard and one back where you eventually want one a rudder conversion ( even if you don't do one for years), maybe even fashion some, cardboard air scoops, and let the boat ventilate in a breezy area off-season, and I'll bet the weight improvement will be noticeable.

You are right about hull flex concerns. Some years ago I was looking to get out of an immaculate by heavily raced boat, but I knew that despite the perfect finish the structure was worthless. It had been pounded to death. I traded it in to a factory authorized dealer rather than sell it directly. At least he knew exactly what he was getting. I took some flack at our club for selling a boat outside the club family - violating an unspoken rule we try to follow. As to the eventually disposition (of which I am clueless), if there were any subsequent issues because the problems were not addressed (it would have been extremely costly) it was a reflection on the dealer's reputation and not mine. The point, though, is that you are correct in being vigilant.
 
In my area they typically go for 600 to 1000 in sailing shape. Above 1000 for wow! Shape. I think that is fixable but it might notlook great after depending on your skill. I personall do not care much how they look so it might be worth it ,but i would probably pass
 
$300??? just for the shell?
I'd expect to see some decent hardware on her, dagger, rudder, sail, mast, spars etc.
Even with the hardware, those repairs—which I could do almost for free—are too severe. :(

:oops: Think of the damage you don't see! :eek:
 
In my area they typically go for 600 to 1000 in sailing shape. Above 1000 for wow! Shape
:eek:

No worries, it's $350 for everything (sail, all rigging, rudder, dagger). I've been watching repair stuff online and reading Don Casey about stress cracks and delamination, and so I think it's something I'll strengthen or stiffen this winter as long as our in-person inspection reveals it isn't flexing or cracking under pressure. We've been pricing out parts and repair materials, so we can factor that into any boat we get, because at our price point, anything will need at least something replaced/repaired, etc. And we would rather experiment on an older boat than sink a lot of money into a newer boat that we either damage through our own newbie-ness or botch a repair and sink even more $$. We've got to save some money for Boat #2!

But, of course, if it feels weak, soggy, or dubious, I'll walk away, and the seller is cool with that. :) I want this boat, but I can walk away if need be.
 
I like this two- boat strategy. What I might do is go ahead amend get the second boat with its trailer, better sail, and new rudder - and as you suggested - go for the best of both. If the hull of the second boat with the better gear was even half-?way seaworthy, I'd use it and the second-best sail as a beater for kids, or dump it off at a secondary sailing venue like at my parents house or a vacation shack or something, so I could sail anytime there just by carrying the blade bag in my trunk.

It's a hull that you wouldn't worry about just leaving someplace. If it's soggy you can even drill a couple of holes for ports and let it sit somewhere for a year (parents houses or vacation cabins are great for hat). Or you can give that second hull to a brother or neice or someone who's always wanted to sail, as a gift of sorts, and let them sort out their own blade situation.

At the same time, I'd go ahead with the rudder bracket upgrade on the first boat and use that second boat's new-style rudder. Even sell the old one on C-list or something if youvare into that. However you do it this second boat sounds like an easy decision.
 

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