Best Way To Carry Drinking Water

AlanD

Former ISAF Laser Measurer
#23
AlanD
I am trying not to be a total pest, but is that system actually 'legal'?

Laser Class Rules : http://www.laserinternational.org/sites/default/files/Class_Rules_2010.pdf
It's been interpreted as legal for a long time, I believe using Rule 21 Clips & Storage Bags. Somehow bike cages make it under that category as well, I disagree with that interpretation wrt to bike cages, but that's how it currently stands. As I said in the earlier thread, whilst Jean-Luc didn't give his reasoning, I suspect the dual purpose of the Bottleport and the phase the storage receptacle has to be under the inspection port is where it runs fowl of the class rules.

Just remember, I don't interpret the rules (except while waiting for a ruling), I just apply the rules as written, with a few accepted interpretations, some I agree with, others I don't. I'd rather the rules be more black and white, with no areas of grey. I also think that the ILCA doesn't do enough in clarifying rules and making those clarifications public knowledge.
 

AlanD

Former ISAF Laser Measurer
#26
Well that makes that one clear. Thanks Rodolfo. That overturns a ruling from memory going back to the Paul Milson days.

Jean-Luc been busy, last time I looked there, there were only 2 pages.
 
#27
So a simple and effective way to carry drinking water, which apparently was ruled to be legal by the powers-that-be many years ago, and has been interpreted as being legal ever since, is now ruled illegal because of an interpretation by one guy? I'm actually a strong supporter of adherence to the class rules (to the annoyance of some of my friends with a more relaxed attitude on such matters) but this does seem to be becoming ridiculous.

Carrying enough water to prevent dehydration is a safety issue, and we should be leaning towards allowing ways of carrying as many bottles of water that people think they may need for a day's sailing. Is drilling a couple of holes in the grab rail so clearly against the rules that we must outlaw it? Rule 21 could surely be interpreted either way on this one.
 

AlanD

Former ISAF Laser Measurer
#29
The problem is that we've never had any rules with respect to carrying water bottles. With the way the class rules are written, where everything is automatically illegal, unless there is a rule that permits it, it's been an oversight not to specifically permit them to be carried (ditto with food) other than in a storage bag or a bag under the inspection port. There is one thing which is specifically banned under the clothing weight rules is hydration packs (Camel Backs, Geigerrigs etc) as they are effectively a weight jacket

I've probably said this before, but I do believe that the class is too reliant upon word of mouth when it comes to rule interpretations and too lax in applying the rules that do exist. Getting interpretations out into the public was an issue well before Jean-Luc took over as World Measurer. At least Jean-Luc is trying to improve things on this aspect, but every measurement interpretation, every question/ answer should at the absolute minimum be circulated to every measurer involved with the class and not just J-L & the person that asked it. I will defend J-L on changing interpretation, firstly the wording in the rules has changed, even a slight variation can alter the meaning significantly, add to this that English is not his first language so he may not fully understand that a comma here or there may have a huge impact.

People complain about Australian spars being different for the UK spars, or some other variation between boats in different regions, but are willing to let others race with illegally rigged boat or copy sails or ignore the racing rules. The only reason why Intensity et al have a market is because we as Laser sailors have let others use this illegal equipment at club level. If nobody bought it, they wouldn't try to fill the void. Why do a 360 turn for touching a mark or 720 turn for infringing another boat when no one protests?
 

cskudder

Active Member
#31
The only reason why Intensity et al have a market is because we as Laser sailors have let others use this illegal equipment at club level.
With the greatest respect:
I disagree with your statement about "the only reason Intensity has a market," and object because of its implications.

I have sailed a Laser for 20 years exclusively for recreational reasons - never raced it, even with the local club --- which I understand has a pretty good fleet. Having access to reasonably-priced non-racing parts from Intensity is VERY important to keeping me sailing. I think I understand your perspective as a racer/measurer. I raced one-designs for ~10 years, from Tech Dingy's to Shields. I enjoyed it VERY much at that stage of my life. I made it to my class national's a couple times and smile when I see the cups + etc on the shelf still. I think I appreciate + understand, and I know that I support, the principle of a one-design racing class, and the "fundamental principle" as a cornerstone in a class's rules.

I would ask that you understand, and respect, and not undermine, my perspective and how I sail...
- I don't have the time or interest or free cashflow to race. Not by conscious choice- family and career pretty much are what they are. Yes, I understand there are plenty of people with families and careers who DO manage to race. I say bravo to and for them.
- I have 3 kids, going thru college, and my local taxes have tripled in 15 years.
- my cash income, as an entrepreneur, is highly unstable ... right now I'm looking for either work or funding, and of course buying individual health insurance for my family on the open market.
- my wife is a free lance artist. She loves her work, but the pay is lousy.
I'm not looking for sympathy. I feel very blessed in so many ways. I'm not crying in my beer. I'm working hard, saving money where I can, and sailing whenever the wind blows and family or work don't come first.

Sailing is a tremendous joy and relaxation in my life. It's like riding a bike or skiing- it's relaxation. I don't have the interest in competing any more. I just like the wind and the water, and the sun if there is any that day. Or actually, I just love them. And I love the solitude out on the water.

I would ask that you please recognize the very important role that the availability of cheaper, non-racing parts plays in my oh-so-loved recreational sport of sailing. And please let's not, by implication, condemn Intensity or Jim, or others. I value the role that they play in the market very highly. Please let me and people like me sail how we want, and please don't attack our key sources.

Have fun racing, while I have fun sailing,
Respectfully,
 
Thread starter #33
I finally decided to fit a bike drink bottle holder. Found a good one that holds the bottle in place quite firmly. Also bought a squeese type bottle with a valve. Put it on the Port side of the read toe strap fitting. I feel this is better than a shock cord arrangement as you don't have to fiddle with getting it back into the shock cord it just slides in easily to the bike fitting.
 
#35
I finally decided to fit a bike drink bottle holder. Found a good one that holds the bottle in place quite firmly. Also bought a squeese type bottle with a valve. Put it on the Port side of the read toe strap fitting. I feel this is better than a shock cord arrangement as you don't have to fiddle with getting it back into the shock cord it just slides in easily to the bike fitting.
I did exactly the same thing this year(port side as well). The new Camelback bottles are great, you can turtle the boat a hundred times and it still tastes like a Dark & Stormy.
 

Eric_R

D10 Secretary
#36
I fill a drybag with water and snacks and attach it to the mast or the back of the hiking strap. Worked well for me at Midwinter's East.
 

CJM

New Member
#37
A bit different idea is the use of a pvc winch handle holder. I do no like drilling holes in any boat so this is what I did. Secured the holder to a piece of aluminium with enough al sticking out the side to go under the aft hiking bracket. Slide it under the strap bracket and replace the screws that hold the aft hicking strap. Throw away water bottles never fall out.
 
#39
It is a club rule that buoyancy aids must be worn at my club. I bought an aid with a 2 litre camel pack in the back, absolutely invaluable.
 

Wavedancer

Upside down?
Staff member
#40
It is a club rule that buoyancy aids must be worn at my club. I bought an aid with a 2 litre camel pack in the back, absolutely invaluable.
I have read that camel packs/backs are illegal for racing.
This is not a Laser class rule; it applies to all classes
 
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