are roll tacks really worth it?

M

mattradial155315

New Member
many people belive roll tacks arent worth it. three time world champion glenn brouke suggests that," roll tacks at best can gain you little, and at worst be extremly detreminal" the distance you slip sideways may be more than you gain in speed. what do you think is best
 
Hell yes roll tacking is worth it. Rolling the boat through a tack does not make you gain speed, it helps you sustain the speed you had prior to a tack. Slamming the tiller hard over to tack acts as a brake and will slow you down every time.
 
Pretty sure that's been taken out of context - yes, a poorly executed roll tack will cost you. But a tack without roll will ALWAYS cost you, poorly executed or not.
 
Hmmm maybe roll tack technique has moved on since then? I remember when I was learning to tack back in the mid-nineties we weren't trained to dump the main and pre-roll was thought to be a good idea, so its moved on since then at least.
 
bobbyh said:
Rolling the boat through a tack does not make you gain speed, it helps you sustain the speed you had prior to a tack.
Click to expand...

Nice . That is the official line. No one will come looking if you say that enough times. :D lol.

There are two issues:

The roll pre-tack, which is a good idea for not losing speed,

and the return to flat from heeled when on the new tack - which will increase your speed dramatically as you exit the tack when "done right". Unfortunately, doing it right is illegal. :D

The trick is to do everything correct up to that point. You have to control the rate of return to flat trim so you don't loose speed overall or get penalised by beedy-eyed RC. This shouldn't be too much of a problem during your training sessions, as learning a slightly bung technnique to stay within rules is as simple as learning a correct technique.

besides, we all have to play fair don't we?

It's in the rules.
 
Rolltacking to some extent is always worth it, doing extream rolltacks are not worth it if you can't pull them of 100%. If you practice untill you can it's totaly worth it though.

Anyway, you can gain alot of speed from rolltacking, but as stated earlier, it's illegal.
Now usualy, specialy in the Laser feel, bending the rules and fooling the referee is often considered a part of the game so.. =P
 
I would like to think that I understand the concept of roll tacking.
But how exactly do you control how quickly you level that boat out? I wanna say a mixture of weight placement (i.e. changing the righting moment) and mainsheet trim. That make sense?
 
When done properly, you should be coming up to flatten as the hull is still rolling over. If you've done this right, it's simply a matter of how far out you go to flatten.

To clarify, roll-tacking is not illegal. Coming out of a tack faster than you went into one is illegal.
Unless you sail in college, in which case the mast can't go past vertical.

I would think roll-tacking in light-to-medium winds (5-15ish) would be beneficial. Roll-tacking at the extremes doesn't get you far.
 
Back in the day I was taught "aussie roll tack" where one would
walk around the back of mainsheet during tack, thus, spinning
boat on transom (no roll during tack).

I have observed this is how Olympic windsurfers round marks.

This may be what Glen is referring to.

G.
 
what a second are you saying that instead of going between the mainsheet block and traveler, that you standup and go between the traveler and rudder?
 
No, behind the mainsheet and end of boom, standing up
straddling the tiller.

Seemed impossible at the time - might try it again now in light
air.


G.
 
gaber said:
No, behind the mainsheet and end of boom, standing up
straddling the tiller.

Seemed impossible at the time - might try it again now in light
air.


G.
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Yeah, well wait until I get home. I have to see this, Gaber.
 
this guy sounds like his "aussie roll tack" will end up like an "eskimo roll". i don't understand how this is pulled off, and standing up in any conditions except light-air, are gonna kill you. i'm also a little skeptical about the windsurfing comparison. roll-tacking is efficient, if done legally and properly. yes, you have to practice the technique. i feel that even a bad roll-tack is worth more than none at all.
 
gaber said:
Back in the day I was taught "aussie roll tack" where one would
walk around the back of mainsheet during tack, thus, spinning
boat on transom (no roll during tack).

I have observed this is how Olympic windsurfers round marks.

This may be what Glen is referring to.

G.
Click to expand...


This is not what Glen is referring to
 
gaber said:
Back in the day I was taught "aussie roll tack" where one would
walk around the back of mainsheet during tack, thus, spinning
boat on transom (no roll during tack).

I have observed this is how Olympic windsurfers round marks.

This may be what Glen is referring to.

G.
Click to expand...

The coach at the Masters Midweek Madness (please someone credit him -- senility has set in) suggested pushing off with your leeward foot, against the front of the cockpit as you tacked. This torques the boat around and reduces the amount of tiller.

Its a lot easier than walking behind the mainsheet :)
 
I've heard of a few people having "fun days" with their lasers - seeing who can shimmy up the last the highest before it capsizes etc and I'm sure someone mentioned trying this "gybe by standing up behind the end of boom". BUT only for a laugh of course, not as a speed tactic. I had a few goes at it but VERY unsuccessful. I managed to do the "tack by running around front of mast" though.
Maybe we should start a new thread - "stupid things to do on your laser".
 
We often do windsurfer tacks for a laugh - going round the front of the mast rather than the under the boom - same for gybes. Quite fun when you get the hang of it!
 
quite fast too! I remember watching the gun sailors at my local club when I was a kid, on a light airs day. Two of them decided to sail the entire race by standing on the foredeck holding the mast and mainsheet. those two were like half a lap ahead by the finish, only to then be reminded about the "no body parts forward of the mast" line in the rules!
 
All I know is that in light wind you can get a hell of a lot of speed coming out of a tack... it may be illegal to come out of a tack faster than you go in, but what the heck, its kind of fun!
 
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