AMF Hilu

#22
I'm not finding a registry link on Ralph's page ... or is his web page it?
That web page was it, I thought. I'm already counted on his page - the photo of the Hilu with the Mistral sail is mine.

Weight: FYI, I weighed a few parts:

Code:
 24.0 platform 
 34.0 outrigger hull
 84.5 main hull
-----
142.5 lbs
So a bit more than the "75 lbs" wikipedia says.

Maybe the 75 lbs reference was for the main hull - I just discovered my main hull was full of water (drain plug hole was pointing skyward, and the plug was out)! And has been for over a year. I drained it, but I wouldn't be surprised if it had absorbed a fair amount into the glass in that time.
 

Wayne

Member Emeritus
#24
That web page was it, I thought. I'm already counted on his page - the photo of the Hilu with the Mistral sail is mine.
Ah, then I'll take all the numbers anyone throws around with a grain of salt, maybe a pound.

As evidenced by the three boats appearing on the used market in just the past couple of months, it seems the quantity of Hilu in existence exceeds speculation. Although I don't think there's any disputing the numbers are low, seeing how it didn't make it as a popular boat model in the first place.



Weight: FYI, I weighed a few parts:

Code:
 24.0 platform 
 34.0 outrigger hull
 84.5 main hull
-----
142.5 lbs
So a bit more than the "75 lbs" wikipedia says.

Maybe the 75 lbs reference was for the main hull
May as well round that figure off and post it to Wikipedia as an "actual". Who knows where their figure came from. I've never seen a Hilu spec sheet, just the sales flyer Ralph and a couple of document dealers have posted out in the wild.



I just discovered my main hull was full of water. I drained it, but I wouldn't be surprised if it had absorbed a fair amount into the glass in that time.
The fiberglass should not have absorbed any water unless it is becoming delaminated. You'd see this evidenced by it going soft. I had a Hobie hull do this back in the 70s so badly the Hobie dealer swapped it for a new one. Bad lay-up job I'd guess.

.
 
#25
As evidenced by the three boats appearing on the used market in just the past couple of months, it seems the quantity of Hilu in existence exceeds speculation.
Shh! You'll drive down prices! ;) (I'm holding out for that $20k Hilu collector.)

May as well round that figure off and post it to Wikipedia as an "actual". Who knows where their figure came from.
I'll weigh the rig & foils when I get them (next week, hopefully) and post a total boat weight then. Seems like something around 200 lbs is likely.
 
#27
Hilu weight

I'll weigh the rig & foils when I get them
Got some parts this week. Getting closer to a final "actual" Hilu weight:

Code:
 24.0 platform   
 34.0 outrigger hull  
 81.0 main hull  
 13.0 daggerboard + rudder/tiller
 23.0 spars & sail
----- 
175.0 lbs
I say "getting closer" because I'm still missing the four frame bars + webbing that make up the trampoline (will make these myself). Also, the Sunfish rudder I got is ancient - it looks quite a bit smaller than the rudders I see in other Hilu pics.

The sharp eye will notice I dropped my main hull weight from 84.5 lbs to 81 lbs. That's because 3.5 lbs of water dripped out of the hull over the course of a week. (It had filled up after being stored outside with the open drain facing skyward for over a year.) That water might have been absorbed in either the fiberglass, or the buoyancy foam, or both.

That said, seems safe to say that a fully rigged Hilu probably weighs in at ~180 lbs / 82 kg.
 

Wayne

Member Emeritus
#29
. . .That water might have been absorbed in either the fiberglass, or the buoyancy foam, or both.

That said, seems safe to say that a fully rigged Hilu probably weighs in at ~180 lbs / 82 kg.
Fiberglass doesn't have a tendency to take up and hold water without becoming obviously soft and delaminated. The foam flotation, on the other hand, when left to steam for years in a closed pontoon, can osmos quite a bit..., about 58 lb per cu ft for USCG approved, 4 lb density, marine grade flotation.

A factory spec sheet just got posted to Sunfish Sailor and it confirms AMF listed "hull weight" at 75 lb. Hull weight is typically a bare hull so they are undoubtedly looking at the main pontoon alone, without sail rig and foils.

More fitting with tradition, that should probably be both pontoons and the connecting frame..., maybe 135 lb to 140 lb altogether - don't you think?



And I still need to buy webbing to make the tramp! :eek:
The spec sheet has a note stating later production superceded the webbing with a laced-on single piece tramp.

.
 
#30
Fiberglass doesn't have a tendency to take up and hold water without becoming obviously soft and delaminated. The foam flotation, on the other hand, when left to steam for years in a closed pontoon, can osmos quite a bit..., about 58 lb per cu ft for USCG approved, 4 lb density, marine grade flotation.
Likely the foam, then. I've been all over the hull, and aside from one crack that needs repairing, I found no obvious soft spots (on the outside anyway).

More fitting with tradition, that should probably be both pontoons and the connecting frame..., maybe 135 lb to 140 lb altogether - don't you think?
Sounds reasonable. Maybe they advertised only the main hull weight as a way to suggest how the disassembled boat is easily handled (for transport/storage etc.)

The spec sheet has a note stating later production superceded the webbing with a laced-on single piece tramp.
Interesting! I think I'm going to go with the webbing. I like that aesthetic vs. a Hobie style tramp.

Also interesting in that spec sheet: it shows a long, low integral keel on the main hull, not a daggerboard.

And from that drawing, now I know I don't have the right rudder for it.
 

Wayne

Member Emeritus
#31
Likely the foam, then. I've been all over the hull, and aside from one crack that needs repairing, I found no obvious soft spots (on the outside anyway).
Shouldn't be any different than the soft spots you typically find on older Hobie pontoons..., just without there being a foam layer in the mix. Good that everything is solid.


Sounds reasonable. Maybe they advertised only the main hull weight as a way to suggest how the disassembled boat is easily handled (for transport/storage etc.)
I wouldn't put it past them to only draw attention to the heaviest component, then if it came up simply mention everything else weighs less.


Also interesting in that spec sheet: it shows a long, low integral keel on the main hull, not a daggerboard.
There's a curious anomaly..., the spec sheet with note added for the later design change, is dated Dec. of 1971 (probably originally printed in preparation for the initial introduction in 1972). The setup manual printed a month later shows the daggerboard instead of a keel/skeg.

I just wonder if the original design tried to omit the daggerboard along the same line as a Hobie 14 asymmetrical hull, but didn't pan out. We'll probably never know since it appears all the production boats have daggerboards.


And from that drawing, now I know I don't have the right rudder for it.
In the setup manual, spec sheet, and every photo I've seen, the rudder seems to be the same one as the Sunfish "new style" (1972 thru the present).

Does your hull have a Hull ID embossed into it?

.
 
#32
In the setup manual, spec sheet, and every photo I've seen, the rudder seems to be the same one as the Sunfish "new style" (1972 thru the present).
OK, then I've definitely just bought an old style Sunfish rudder. Drat. And judging solely by its appearance & bronze hardware, pre-1972 is no stretch.

Does your hull have a Hull ID embossed into it?
You mean that little rectangle with "00001" in it?

:)D Just kidding. I keep striving for that $20k...)

Nope, I couldn't find a serial number. Are you aware of any Hilu's with ID's? (If so, what's the location?)
 

Wayne

Member Emeritus
#33
OK, then I've definitely just bought an old style Sunfish rudder. Drat. And judging solely by its appearance & bronze hardware, pre-1972 is no stretch.

You mean that little rectangle with "00001" in it?

:)D Just kidding. I keep striving for that $20k...)

Nope, I couldn't find a serial number. Are you aware of any Hilu's with ID's? (If so, what's the location?)
Present day Sunfish rudder in fiberglass. Earlier versions were wood.


Ralph Harvey Hilu Rudder



Let me know if you ever see $20K as a "sold" price. Until such time I'm filing that one right next to my winning Nigerian lottery ticket.

I have an acquaintance going to check one out today. We'll see if it follows him home.

.
 
#34
Wow - I have a winning Nigerian lottery ticket too!!! What are the odds??

Thanks for clarifying the rudder differences. I'm actively tracking down a "new style" version (have a local lead).

Hoping to get the boat in the water at least once this fall before it gets too chilly.
 
#35
went sailing

Quick update: I modified another rudder/tiller combo to fit the boat and took the Hilu out sailing on an unusually summer-like late afternoon Tuesday. This was only my second time sailing the boat, and my first time using the Sunfish sail & dagger board (used a small 45 sq ft. windsurfer sail/mast before).

Best comment from one bystander watching me rig & launch:

That thing looks weirder and weirder the more I look at it!
The breeze was pretty light - probably in the range of 6-8 knots, with the occasional puff above that.

But what a fun little boat!

Of course the object of the game (for me, anyway) was to fly the outrigger hull on starboard tack as much as possible when reaching & beating. In such light air, I had to cheat it out of the water by keeping my weight close to (sometimes over) the main hull.

Sailed for an hour or so, with two results: 1) it made me hungry for more wind - to get hiking out on that trampoline, and, 2) left me looking forward to extended Hilu playtime next summer.

I'm actually hoping to go out once more this fall, and will try to get some photos. Something to look at to pass the long winter.
 
#37
nice photos! seeing that pontoon out of the water is pretty sweet - was it a pretty big rush of adrenaline flying a hull like that?

cheers,
tag
 
#38
It's definitely fun, yup!

The only other cat type boat I've sailed is a Hobie 16, and the Hilu is much, much easier to sail "on the edge" - flying a hull. The Hilu is very resposive to crew position for making corrections to heel angle. So, probably a bit less adrenaline compared to a Hobie. :D It's all relative.

The only "UH OH" moment I've had so on the Hilu far was letting the outrigger come up so high that the aft tip of the boom started skimming the water on the leeward side.

The problem with that, I realized pretty much instantly, is if I had to ease the main to spill wind in a gust, I wouldn't have been able to, and the boat would have been over. Rounding up to spill wind would have been harder with the boom in the water too.
 
#39
One more pic... kind of grainy (only a 2 megapixel camera).

I ran into a fellow boater at the store tonight who said... "Hey, I saw someone out sailing something that looked like a kayak with an outrigger on it..."

:)

 

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#40
Hello,
I may be interested in your Hilu if you would like to sell it. What part of the Country are you in?
Jim
(Powell, Ohio or Northern Michigan)
614-554-4334
 
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