Advice about outhaul fairlead please!

Turtled

Member
Hi all.
My Laser has been trouble free-for a while now, apart from the tendancy to tip me into the water without warning occasionally....! However, I've recently hit the problem that my outhaul primary line (I think that's what it's called - the one I don't touch) keeps jamming in the tiny gap between the boom and the fairlead.

I'm using a really thin grey line that I got from Rooster (in their outhaul kit). The fairlead is blue plastic, with a flat bottom, so it does not match the curve of the boom.

I'm after any advice going...?

My main questions are:
Any top tips?
Is it class legal to use a fairlead with a metal ring inside for this application? - That would totally solve the problem.
Is there a fairlead with a curved bottom surface to marry better with the boom?

I've checked the Laser online shop, but it all looks exactly like the fitting I already have.

Cheers.
 
You can solve this a number of different ways.
Using the very thin line will eventually wear a groove thru the plastic, which will help keep the line from getting trapped, but eventually will cause the fairlead to break

The most robust/bulletproof is to replace the plastic fairlead with one of the alum versions that are used on the traveller.

You can/should also sand the bottom of both the plastic and alum fairlead to match the boom profile. One easy way to do that is to wrap a peice of sandpaper around the boom, remove the fairlead and run it over the sandpaper until the fairlead has the same profile as the boom. Takes a minute or two.
 
The most robust/bulletproof is to replace the plastic fairlead with one of the alum versions that are used on the traveller.

You can/should also sand the bottom of both the plastic and alum fairlead to match the boom profile. One easy way to do that is to wrap a peice of sandpaper around the boom, remove the fairlead and run it over the sandpaper until the fairlead has the same profile as the boom. Takes a minute or two.

Thanks for the top tip... I'd not thought about sanding it down... Which takes me into the territory of riveting again...

So, when re-riveting that fairlead back on, what size rivets should I be using, and will aluminium rivets be strong enough? (I'm assuming stainless would be better, but I'm also assuming my little rivet gun won't be up to the job???)

Cheers. :)
 
You can solve this a number of different ways.
Using the very thin line will eventually wear a groove thru the plastic, which will help keep the line from getting trapped, but eventually will cause the fairlead to break

The most robust/bulletproof is to replace the plastic fairlead with one of the alum versions that are used on the traveller.

You can/should also sand the bottom of both the plastic and alum fairlead to match the boom profile. One easy way to do that is to wrap a peice of sandpaper around the boom, remove the fairlead and run it over the sandpaper until the fairlead has the same profile as the boom. Takes a minute or two.

x2
 
So, when re-riveting that fairlead back on, what size rivets should I be using, and will aluminium rivets be strong enough? (I'm assuming stainless would be better, but I'm also assuming my little rivet gun won't be up to the job???)

Can anyone help me out with the rivets question? :rolleyes:
 
See pic -
 

Attachments

  • laserboom.jpg
    laserboom.jpg
    47 KB · Views: 114
  • laserboom.jpg
    laserboom.jpg
    47 KB · Views: 118
Superb diagram!

Have you any idea if a small hand-held rivet gun, like the one below, would work on stainless rivets?

 
usually depends on the condition of the jaws, when new usually no problem, well used ones may slip..
 
Superb diagram!

Have you any idea if a small hand-held rivet gun, like the one below, would work on stainless rivets?


I have a near identical rivet gun and have used it for many stainless rivets. It takes quite a bit of hand strength, but it will do the trick
 
Superb diagram!

Have you any idea if a small hand-held rivet gun, like the one below, would work on stainless rivets?


I've had a hard time using hand rivet gun and stainless rivets. However as others have described, it was an old rivet gun that wasn't getting a good grip.

For the outhaul fairlead, a hand-held should work as long as it gets good grip. For something like re-mounting the gooseneck plate to the mast, I'd think you would want something more industrial. I think they have air-powered ones for aircraft, but I have no idea where to find one to use (I would think the cost is prohibitive to buy one).
 
The Aluminium version of the outhaul / traveller fairlead is no longer available from Laser Performance in the UK........I tried to order some a few weeks ago and was told that they no longer supply them - that said, I think Rooster still list them so there may be some available. The other type of riveter which works really well is the 'lazy tong' variety (see link below) it needs a lot less physical effort but it's a bit more expensive,

Lazy Tongs Riveters

Cheers,

Nigel
 
You can/should also sand the bottom of both the plastic and alum fairlead to match the boom profile. One easy way to do that is to wrap a peice of sandpaper around the boom, remove the fairlead and run it over the sandpaper until the fairlead has the same profile as the boom. Takes a minute or two.
You sure that is class legal?
 
You sure that is class legal?

From part 1 of the class rules
"No addition or alteration may be made to the hull
form, construction, equipment, type of equipment,
placing of equipment, fittings, type of fittings, placing
of fittings, spars, sail and battens as supplied by the
builder except when such an alteration or change
is specifically authorised by Parts 2 or 3 of these
Rules."

Going by that it looks to be illegal to me, but I doubt any measurer would spot or even call you on a fairlead
 
From part 1 of the class rules
"No addition or alteration may be made to the hull
form, construction, equipment, type of equipment,
placing of equipment, fittings, type of fittings, placing
of fittings, spars, sail and battens as supplied by the
builder except when such an alteration or change
is specifically authorised by Parts 2 or 3 of these
Rules."

Going by that it looks to be illegal to me, but I doubt any measurer would spot or even call you on a fairlead

Until someone makes the measurers aware that it's going on, like posting illegal modifications on a forum.
 
Until someone makes the measurers aware that it's going on, like posting illegal modifications on a forum.

Oops! - I didn't mean to cause issues for anyone!


So, Alan; I've just been reading the rule book from the link you so kindly provide at the bottom of your posts... Am I reading it correctly that it is fine to attach a block to the fairlead at the end of the boom? I currently have:
  1. The Harken clew sleeve with it's own block.
  2. A floating block midway between boom end and clamcleat.
  3. A block attached to the clamleat.
  4. A block at the gooseneck to direct the line to the deck.
  5. A block at the deck.
I'd originally assumed I couldn't add a block here because I'd been told by someone else that I couldn't... I'm keen to keep the boat as class-legal as I can, even though I'm unlikely to be troubling the measurers anytime soon! ;)

Cheers.
 
Don't apologise, you've helped raise an illegal activity that those reading this will hopefully make others aware is illegal.

By your description, it's legal, but I prefer to see things in real life before determining if it's legal.

Re: Block on the boom fairlead
I have to be very careful in my response here as it could be misinterpreted. 3.f.ii states that the control line must pass through the fairlead as a moving line at least once. 3.f.iii states that additional purchases can be obtained by using an optional block attached to the fairlead. That means the line must run through the fairlead at least once, but if you were to have additional purchases effectively using the fairlead a pulley may be used for some of those purchases, as long as you use the fair lead directly once.
 
Alan, when I download the rules from your link, the page footer on them says "valid from 4 February 2008". However, when I go to the www.laserinternational.org and download the rules via the home page menus I get rules where the page footer says "valid from 1 January 2010".

Ian
 
So... I can't attach a block to the fairlead, as the purpose would be to eliminate the moving line through the fairlead, a clear rule breach.

A fairlead with a metal insert ring doesn't appear to be allowed by the rules.

My problem still exists... and I'm not supposed to sand the fairlead...

Bear with me while I ramble briefly... when I needed to replace my upper mast end caps, I bought them directly from Laser here in the UK. Fitting them was an absolute nightmare because they were slightly too big. I ended up lightly sanding, and trimming a chamfer into the surface that goes into the mast - never to be seen again (until some poor sod has to get them out!). I don't believe I did anything illegal because I was simply making a genuine part fit into a genuine part. (End of ramble)

So, taking the principle accross to my fairlead issue... I'm not attempting to gain an advantage, or greater boat speed. All I want to do it make my rigging do what it is supposed to do - without jamming. It seems to me that sanding a curve into the bottom surface of the fairlead - to make it fit the boom properly - is the same as sanding the mast end-cap so it will fit properly.

Seriously, is that kind of 'modification' classed as a 'modification' in breach of the rules??? :confused:
 
Unsure of your exact arrangement but, on my outhaul the line that actually pulls the sail is tied to the fairlead, goes forward through the clew eye then aft back round the fairlead and forward to another block ...

If yours is similar, one thought would be jam end tied to the fairlead into the gap (e.g. jam it in the "gap" then tie it there) - so when that line goes through clew eye and back through fairlead the tied end is already filling any gap and the moving section of the line is held away from getting stuck ?

Ian
 
Unsure of your exact arrangement but, on my outhaul the line that actually pulls the sail is tied to the fairlead, goes forward through the clew eye then aft back round the fairlead and forward to another block ...

If yours is similar, one thought would be jam end tied to the fairlead into the gap (e.g. jam it in the "gap" then tie it there) - so when that line goes through clew eye and back through fairlead the tied end is already filling any gap and the moving section of the line is held away from getting stuck ?

Hi Ian
Your arrangement sounds the same as mine.

That suggestion certainly sounds like a possible solution, and low on hassle! It may not work for me because the line was pre-spliced when I got it, so might not work where the slpice makes the line thicker. However, I'll certainly give it a try when I go to the club tomorrow...

Cheers.
 
So... I can't attach a block to the fairlead, as the purpose would be to eliminate the moving line through the fairlead, a clear rule breach.

A fairlead with a metal insert ring doesn't appear to be allowed by the rules.

My problem still exists... and I'm not supposed to sand the fairlead...

Bear with me while I ramble briefly... when I needed to replace my upper mast end caps, I bought them directly from Laser here in the UK. Fitting them was an absolute nightmare because they were slightly too big. I ended up lightly sanding, and trimming a chamfer into the surface that goes into the mast - never to be seen again (until some poor sod has to get them out!). I don't believe I did anything illegal because I was simply making a genuine part fit into a genuine part. (End of ramble)

So, taking the principle accross to my fairlead issue... I'm not attempting to gain an advantage, or greater boat speed. All I want to do it make my rigging do what it is supposed to do - without jamming. It seems to me that sanding a curve into the bottom surface of the fairlead - to make it fit the boom properly - is the same as sanding the mast end-cap so it will fit properly.

Seriously, is that kind of 'modification' classed as a 'modification' in breach of the rules??? :confused:

1. You can add a pulley, but the line must run at least once directly through the fairlead.

2. The fairleads with the metal inserts are illegal.

3. Yes, the modification of the fairlead is illegal. A little more brute force on the plug would have got it in, but the insertion process chisels the chamfers on the plug anyway to make it a firm fit there is no need to sand them. The chiselling effect happens with all plugs when they are inserted even when factory fitted. With the fairlead they are all meant to sit up, the factory ones sit up etc, maybe it's poor design not to have them sit flush, but they aren't made flush, the ones leaving the factory sit up as do the ones you fit yourself. So it's illegal to make them flush. When you modify them, they no longer operate the same way, I in your case jam (As an aside, in 25 years of Laser sailing, I've never had one jam, I suspect your problem lies with the line you're using)

4. The class rules are pretty simple, you're only allowed to do what the class rules permit you to do, everything else is illegal. If you start looking for making changes even if no advantage is gained, it's likely what you come up with will be illegal.
 
Ok Alan. I guess that makes it pretty clear... Many thanks for your input.

I'll try adjusting the line so the fixed end fills the gap (although my gut feeling is that it won't work). Beyond that, I guess I'm looking to replace the line with something thicker.

Unless anyone else has any clever ideas?

Many thanks all. :D
 
the marson big daddy rivet gun works pretty well
00000460.jpg

This tool is absurdly easy to use. The inclination may be to "choke up" on the handles.

DONT DO THAT!!!


Keep your hands on the grips and do not leave your fingers pointed out. There is lots and lots of pain available when the river core breaks and those arms slam together.
 
Ok here is a question.

Are you allowed to use the all metal fairleads that you are allowed to use for the traveller? That would resolve the wear issue (just means you would wear out rope quicker).

I use a standard 4mm rope on there. Not usre of the spec(it came with the boat) but it is quite soft but does not stretch. I have never had issues with it wearing of getting jammed.

I also do not have the loops around the boom on the outhaul lines as I think they are just something else to go wrong. What I did on my previous boat was have a stop knot in the secondary outhaul line that would stop the outhaul at max off (I am assuming we do not need specific permission to have a knot in a piece of rope). I have not done this on my current boat though as I just thread the line up and cleat it whilst rigging.
 
Unsure of your exact arrangement but, on my outhaul the line that actually pulls the sail is tied to the fairlead, goes forward through the clew eye then aft back round the fairlead and forward to another block ...

If yours is similar, one thought would be jam end tied to the fairlead into the gap (e.g. jam it in the "gap" then tie it there) - so when that line goes through clew eye and back through fairlead the tied end is already filling any gap and the moving section of the line is held away from getting stuck ?

Ian

I've re-arranged the lines in the fairlead, attempting to 'jam' the fixed end into my problem gap... It didn't exactly jam in the gap, but it is now between the moving line and the problem gap, and worked ok for the duration of the wednesday evening race. Hopefully, that will be my problem solved - legally! - Thanks Ian.

For the record, the line is a very thin line supplied by Rooster for that specific application; I'd guess it is about 2mm...(?) ish.

Thanks for all the input guys.
:)
 
...2. The fairleads with the metal inserts are illegal.

I was just looking through the class rules (they say valid from 1 January 2010), and 3(b)vi says that for control lines and fittings "the plastic fairleads and plastic clam cleats may be replaced in the same position with an identical size and shape fitting made of metal."

I guess that the ones with inserts could be deemed illegal, but what about a fairlead that is entirely made of metal? I don't know if such a thing exists, I was just thinking about it, and unless I am mistaken, should be legal.

 
Yes, the solid metal fairleads do exist and have done for years, they are a Laser built component, unlike the ones with the metal inserts. Over here, the metal insert ones don't have the same hole positions anyway, so they don't fit.
 
I'm assuming stainless would be better, but I'm also assuming my little rivet gun won't be up to the job???)

If you have a good quality hand riveter with good jaws you should be fine. Definitely get a mate to help you though.

I did the blocks on my boom recently using a hand riveter, they are holding just fine.
 
My guess is that the gap that is causing you the problem is because the rivet is either slowly pulling out from the boom or, if it was a previous repair, the rivet didn't get seated properly.

The quick and easy solution has already been suggested - put the knot at the bottom so it basically fills up the gap and the running part rides above it.

If that doesn't work then the solution is to drill out the rivet and redo it. If the hole has corroded so that it's larger than the 3/16" rivet can grip then you need to through-bolt it. That's a bit more work since you would need to take the end cap off (which usually means destroying it). BUT if the rivet hole is corroded larger than it should be and you go to all this trouble you might as well through-bolt the bail for your aft boom block too. That pretty much makes it bullet-proof and you shouldn't ever have any trouble with the fittings pulling out.
 
From part 1 of the class rules
"No addition or alteration may be made to the hull
form, construction, equipment, type of equipment,
placing of equipment, fittings, type of fittings, placing
of fittings, spars, sail and battens as supplied by the
builder except when such an alteration or change
is specifically authorised by Parts 2 or 3 of these
Rules."

Going by that it looks to be illegal to me, but I doubt any measurer would spot or even call you on a fairlead

So, is sanding the inside of the fairlead to smooth it out illegal? :confused:
 

Back
Top