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Adding cleat on mast for halyard

Webfoot1

Active Member
I've used both but my instincts tells me
the pop rivets will present less problems
in the long term.
 

mixmkr

Well-Known Member
Fresh water, I think your choice. The idea in saltwater is dissimilar metals will create galvanic corrosion.
 

L&VW

Well-Known Member
No mast cleat here, but related questions.

1) Should the mast cleat loosen, what do you do?

2) Anyone tried polypropylene line?

A Sunfish I bought came with 1/8" polypropylene. 'Tough on the hands so I replaced it with a cheap braided nylon line. But the replaced 1/8" line was slick through the guides, and with two extra turns on the deck cleat, held fast. :confused:
 

ReneEvM

New Member
Do I have to use aluminum rivets or are stainless steel screws OK?
thanks
roland
Both are an option when used correctly.
- Aluminium rivets are best when you want to 100% avoid galvanic corrosion. No matter sailing salt, fresh or brackish water. Salt water just has a faster galvanic reaction then brackish or fresh.
- You can use Stainless Steel screws but you want to (try to) avoid contact between the dissimilar metals. In other applications you can suffice with nylon washers or sealant between metals. In this case use Tefgel.

No mast cleat here, but related questions.

1) Should the mast cleat loosen, what do you do?

2) Anyone tried polypropylene line?

A Sunfish I bought came with 1/8" polypropylene. 'Tough on the hands so I replaced it with a cheap braided nylon line. But the replaced 1/8" line was slick through the guides, and with two extra turns on the deck cleat, held fast.
1) My vote is to fix it. Keep using it will "open" the holes in mast more, making future repair more extensive.
- Pop rivets; drill out, clean surface, cleat and holes. reattach.
- Screws; remove, clean surface, cleat and holes. Since it's loose while using screws, the holes are bigger than the screws. See if you can use thicker screws or use the same size but also attach it on a bed of 3m 4200.

2) I don't. I sail in the Caribbean and the sun is too aggressive for PolyProp. Either way, I prefer Dyneema as a halyard. Light weight, no stretch, doesn't absorb on water.

Ps. Another tip I found about the mast cleat on this forum: Put a piece of rough sandpaper on the mast sand the cleat on it. This will give your cleat the curve of the mast for a better load spread.
 

NJHippo

New Member
Both are an option when used correctly.
- Aluminium rivets are best when you want to 100% avoid galvanic corrosion. No matter sailing salt, fresh or brackish water. Salt water just has a faster galvanic reaction then brackish or fresh.
- You can use Stainless Steel screws but you want to (try to) avoid contact between the dissimilar metals. In other applications you can suffice with nylon washers or sealant between metals. In this case use Tefgel.



1) My vote is to fix it. Keep using it will "open" the holes in mast more, making future repair more extensive.
- Pop rivets; drill out, clean surface, cleat and holes. reattach.
- Screws; remove, clean surface, cleat and holes. Since it's loose while using screws, the holes are bigger than the screws. See if you can use thicker screws or use the same size but also attach it on a bed of 3m 4200.

2) I don't. I sail in the Caribbean and the sun is too aggressive for PolyProp. Either way, I prefer Dyneema as a halyard. Light weight, no stretch, doesn't absorb on water.

Ps. Another tip I found about the mast cleat on this forum: Put a piece of rough sandpaper on the mast sand the cleat on it. This will give your cleat the curve of the mast for a better load spread.
Sanding on the mast makes sense, would have never thought of that
 

ReneEvM

New Member
Can this cleat be used with the two halyard system? Can it handle two lines? Do you need different line diameters?
I'm not familiar with the 2 halyard system but am with the clamcleat. The unique feature of the one you're referring to is that it has a side entry. For the rest it has the same function and use of the regular one.
I don't recommend it for use of multiple lines. To hold the line properly it needs to "sink in" as deep as possible in the groove for the teeth to have a proper hold. The line on top will slip.
You can go thinner in line but might cause problems when you bounce on the waves.
 

chris williams

Active Member
Can this cleat be used with the two halyard system? Can it handle two lines? Do you need different line diameters?
Yes you can, yes it does, and yes you do! This is how I have mine rigged. The first line I put in is the jens halyard. I wish I could tell you its diameter but I don't know it. It just barely holds. Either a slightly thicker halyard or shimming the cleat away from the mast would probably help. The second, main halyard is thicker and cleats nicely on top. When you need to go to the jens, you just pop the main halyard and off you go!
 
Make sure the halyard still cleats to the hull at some point, as that is your means of mast retention. For a high-load cleat I would recommend using stainless rivets. Despite the potential for galvanic action, they will hold better and longer than aluminum rivets (which loosen up after just a few sails in my experience), and will be easier to remove and snug up than stainless screws in the long run.

One of my boats has a bunch of stainless screws in its spars and, despite my best efforts, I cannot get them out without damaging the spars, leaving me with extra, outdated hardware that I absolutely hate to deal with on the water.

Stainless rivets are the way to go IMHO.
 
PS: to clarify, the reason the stainless screws will not come out is that they have corroded themselves to the spars on the inside. I would have to cut away the surrounding aluminum to get them out. Do NOT do this if you want to keep your spars in good shape.
 

Weston

Member
I'd sand a nylon cleat instead of the mast.
I think that ReneEvM was suggesting to hold the sandpaper onto the mast (non abrasive side facing the mast) and then use that as a mold to sand the correct curve into the cleat. At least that’s how I’m picturing it.
 

bluejester0b

New Member
I only sail on fresh water. I used the 3M 4200 sealant behind the cleat, and fastened it on with #10 stainless steel sheet metal screws – I had to pre-drill the mast with small pilot holes.

Sunfish and Minifish both.

View attachment 34536View attachment 34537
Sorry to necro this, but late last season my halyard cleat gave way in the middle of Irondiquoit bay. Tag, looking at your pictures and write up is there anything on the inside of the mast holding the screws in? No nuts or anything keeping the bolts from ripping out?
 

tag

my2fish
bluejester0b - no, they are just the sheet metal screws, and they are 40+ inches up the side of the mast, there is no way I'd be able to reach anything up inside the mast to attach something on the back side.

you might not be able to tell for sure if you lost the halyard cleat out on the water, but did your screws fail in shear? if so, the holes might be slightly elongated, but mostly still round. if so, you might need a larger size screw (diameter) or higher strength screw material.

if the screws pulled out at the mast metal - you'd likely see a larger elongated hole, as well as portions of the mast material pulling away (not sure I'm describing this that well...). if that's the case, maybe it was mostly due to the screw not being long enough to make sure adequate threads were engaged (inside) the mast.

some people I think use pop-rivets, but I don't think I'd trust them. you might look for a cleat with as low a profile as possible?
 

bluejester0b

New Member
Ah sorry to be imprecise, I lost my OEM halyard cleat on the deck, and was planning to install a new cleat on the mast to take the load of the rigging, then try to fill in the deck cleat holes with some epoxy and remount the cleat there to keep the mast in place in event of capsize.

So it sounds like they are just screws in the mast, and high enough up that any extreme lateral forces from the sail won't break the mast in two at those holes. Thanks!
 
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Charles Howard

Active Member
How old is your boat? Pictures? Older boats had wood blocks for the halyard cleat. They would pull out when using a vang. Might be able to fix with epoxy and bigger threads.

3.5.9 One cleat of any type may be installed on the mast not more than four (4‟) feet from
the base, for cleating the line used to tie the „Jens Rig‟ (Ref. Rule 3.7.3). It may also
be used to cleat the halyard. If utilized, there must be some means to securely attach
the rig to the hull using the end of the halyard.
 

bluejester0b

New Member
I don't have any pictures handy I'll have to run out to the shed where I keep it later. It's a mid 70s, metal gunwales, AMF built, I believe that vintage has the wood blocks but I'm not certain if they are rotten.

If I understand the logic of the fix, it's taking epoxy to fill in the holes, then once that's dried redrilling with a larger screw so I'm going through wood and epoxy, or even going into fresh wood and moving where I put the cleat?
 

L&VW

Well-Known Member
Another member suggested using thickened epoxy, and using a small syringe or eyedropper, inject the epoxy into the holes.

A larger blob results if the epoxy is injected with the Sunfish upside-down. :cool:
 
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