a fight about a bowline

Krycek

Member
Sooooooo.... there may or may not have been a heated debate between the RC and a member of my club as to whether or not there is a rule stating a laser must have a bowline?

I've scoured the laser book and I can't find a rule stating that there must be a bow line or any sort of tethering line... anyone else know if any rule requiring me to have a bow line?
 
I hate Bowlines. They just get in the way and if they get in the water they create drag . No good laser sailor uses a bowline.
 
Not for Lasers. I used to sail w/one thinking it was a rule, but a good read through of the class book and I knew better.

However, your club can put a requirement for one in their SI's.
 
Sooooooo.... there may or may not have been a heated debate between the RC and a member of my club as to whether or not there is a rule stating a laser must have a bowline?

I've scoured the laser book and I can't find a rule stating that there must be a bow line or any sort of tethering line... anyone else know if any rule requiring me to have a bow line?


Allan Broadribb wrote a standard set of regatta guidelines and in those guidelines the sailing instructions had somethiong close to:

A 20 foot piece of line bust be permanently secured to the mast and passed through teh bow eye at all times."

we used to joke about what "permanent might be" and usually decided it meant a bowling under a few wwraps of old weathered duct tape.

Allan's concept was that when the wind got out of hand, boats with a bowline could be retrieved easily with a boat hook and then anchored upside down until the RC had nothing more important left to do than pick up all the dumped sailorless boats.

You can read All;ans old regatta guidelines at teh link below. THEY ARE NOT CURRENT and should not serve as a subsitiute for teh new class guidelines which can be found on teh NA Class website.

They are like a history lesson. and of course have some really good ideas about regatta hosting generally...

http://cerebus.winsite.com/laser/laser/regguide.html
 
The fitting on the bow of a laser is not strong enough to be towed from. If I need a tow I take my mainsheet off and tie it around the mast before passing to rib crew.
 
A 20 foot piece of line bust be permanently secured to the mast and passed through teh bow eye at all times."

we used to joke about what "permanent might be" and usually decided it meant a bowling under a few wwraps of old weathered duct tape.

That explains something about some boats at our club that i have been wondering about for while now
 
In our area, the water is shallow and the bottom muddy in spots. Once the mast gets in the mud, waves push it deeper into the mud so unless you get the bow around into the wind even a 250 pound guy can't right the boat. Usually a crash boat, with a knowlegeble crew, can grab the bow line and give the boat a short pull so the bow is into the wind and the boat rights easily.

We also sail races in the Ocean where you need to sail in an out of inlets with currents of up to 5kts. The fleet often needs to be towed. Yes, one can use their mainsheet to tow, but then you are faced with having to rig it again out on the water. Those clubs usually require a 20 foot towline in the SI's.
 
I keep a loop on mine that is about 12" long... throughout the day I will tether to the pier at the lake and use another line (bungee) that is attached to the pier for this purpose..... I do a knot that I have always heard called a "larks head" and I pass the knot in the line on the laser through the lark's head, then tighten it up... to launch you just loosen the larks head a bit and the other loop passes through ad you are away....

But hell, I will leave my boat rigged and flogging all day unless the wind is really crazy...
 
The fitting on the bow of a laser is not strong enough to be towed from. If I need a tow I take my mainsheet off and tie it around the mast before passing to rib crew.

I have towed (and been towed) many time using this padeye. It and the fasteners are certainly strong enough provided the deck hasn't delaminated, and the tow rig is appropriate for the sea conditions. Specifically, if there is a lot of chop, you will need some shock cord to provide give to the tow line. Given the right situation and no shock cord, you could very well pull the padeye out of the deck. Also, you will need to have the tow line length appropriate for the conditions, speed and the wake of the towing vessel.

I am certainly not a hard core racer, but I always sail with a bowline (aprox. 7' in length) which runs from the padeye around the mast and back (twice) and tied off with a Highwayman's hitch or other quick release knot.
 
I would never let anyone tow my boat from that bow fitting, it just isn't strong enough and I don't want to take the risk. If I need a tow the line is secured to the mast.
Thankfully its very rare I need a tow, usually only if the wind has vanished at a big event and then its standard practice to use your mainsheet for a tow home at events here.
 
You are certainly entitled to your opinion, but without some emperical data (breaking strain or shear tests, finite element analysis, etc.) I could not make that assertion. I have learned to avoid using absolutes when it comes to the strength of a given assembly.
 
It's conventional wisdom to tow a Laser with a line on the mast because the boweye is not so strong. Maybe it's one of those old sailor's tales. ;)
 
Merrily,
You are probably right. This seems to be similar to questions that have come up related to inspection ports. As I said before, I could certainly see a scenario where the padeye could be pulled out. Hell, I am sure we all could devise a method to do it!! ha ha. My point was that you could tow with it provided there is no shock load, and there are wasy ways to avoid this. Of course, now having said that, I will probably yank one out this summer! If I do, I will post pictures of me eating humble pie.
 
It's conventional wisdom to tow a Laser with a line on the mast because the boweye is not so strong. Maybe it's one of those old sailor's tales. ;)

My guess is that the bow eye is strong enough to tow one boat by. However, at big regattas you often get towed in chains of up to 20 boats. I seriously doubt that the bow eyes are up to towing that many boats. In any class of boats that we tow, we always tow by the mast and tie the line from the boat behind to the mast. That way the strain passes through from one line to the next rather than fittings on the boat.
 
That is a very good point. All my towing experience has been with only one boat, and with a string of 20 boats and a chop, you would want to be around the mast.
 
I dont know about you guys but if the wind drops enough for the racing to be abandond i lift the rudder and lie on the front deck and paddle in like a surfboard. I've paddled the entire length of our resevior that way and to be honest i back back ashore before everyone waiting to be towed in by our one rib. I have been towed by the bowline off the bow eye but i find it easier to unclip the sail from the clew and put mainsheet around the mast. That said we have some wierd practisies here in Wales.
 
Paddling back in in no wind is an option when the distance isn't too far or there is no tide. Change your venue to a sea championship however and it's another story.
 
Paddling back in in no wind is an option when the distance isn't too far or there is no tide. Change your venue to a sea championship however and it's another story.

Pwhelli 08? But what happened after we'd been towed halfway back eh? :D

That was one of my all time favorite days of laser sailing! Mainly because towards the end of the last race when the wind was blowing me out of the cockpit and the waves were rolling by like HGV's I nailed the MOST AWESOME GYBE! It was an effortless and elegant maneuver amongst the carnage, the driving rain, the flying spray... Such a great feeling :D
 
I nailed the MOST AWESOME GYBE! It was an effortless and elegant maneuver amongst the carnage, the driving rain, the flying spray... Such a great feeling :D

And whats the betting that you fell out doing one a few weeks later on a nice force 3 day!

or is that just me?? :D
 
Sooooooo.... there may or may not have been a heated debate between the RC and a member of my club as to whether or not there is a rule stating a laser must have a bowline?

I've scoured the laser book and I can't find a rule stating that there must be a bow line or any sort of tethering line... anyone else know if any rule requiring me to have a bow line?

The requirement of having a bow line / tow line is not a class rule but a safety rquirement by a governing authority like your national sailing authority, but it might even be a club rule. While the class fundermental rule prevents the use of any equipment not mentioned in the class rules, there is a small rule (R25) that permits you to use any mandatory safety equipment prescribed by a governing authority.
 

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