470 Questions

Thread starter #41
Still alive :D. Been sailing the 470 an awful lot, even passed a Hobie 16 on a reach (though they flew by us on every other point of sail :confused:). We have only flown the Spinnaker a few times due to complexity and pure chaos it creates for us newbies to get it up/down and filled properly. Does the spinnaker pole attach to the guy in a fixed location, or should the guy be able to slide through the pole?

P.S.
Thanks for all the help above, it’s been tremendously helpful in preparing the boat for the summer:D.
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(Yes I know that the trapeze isn’t properly fastened, there aren’t battens in the sails, and I haven’t added tell tails yet)
 

LaLi

Active Member
#42
The first thing I thought seeing the first picture was "get some battens... at least a top batten!" Heh. But great to see that boat on the water!

Yes, the guy has to slide through the pole end fittings (it would be a pain if it didn't). You should still fly the spinnaker and adjust the pole height so that the pole end practically touches the sail.

The trapeze system looks fine, you just want to shorten the wires a bit. You can see in the last picture that the crew will have a hard time coming in when the handle is that low (and btw he's holding it with the wrong hand).

Would be nice to see what the tillercam has recorded!

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Thread starter #43
Yes, battens are on the list ;). I bought crimps for the wire, but I do not have a crimping tool. Would smushing the crimps in a vice be adequate?
 

LaLi

Active Member
#44
I don't think a vice would work because you want to squeeze the crimp from all directions at once. Ask at your club if someone has the right tools, or where they get their wire work done.

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Thread starter #45
Battens - would 420 batten kit suffice? I would like to just purchase a bunch of stock (then I could batten the Holder 14’s sail as well (which may not do much good since that sail is the consistency of a black garbage bag :confused:)). How flexible should a batten be? Do all battens in the sail have the same amount of flexibility?
 

LaLi

Active Member
#46
The 420 main has four battens (the 470 has only three), and they most likely don't fit into a 470 main (probably too short). You better order a real 470 set of battens from North or Ullman. I have a hard time posting links until Monday, but I'll see what I can find then.
 
Thread starter #47
Broke my tiller extension yesterday.

Released the main in a gust and didn’t get it in quick enough, ended up dumping my crew (who was on the trap) :confused:. Boat veered windward capsized then turtled :eek:. Fortunately the boat very easily rights (this has happened many times before).

The only damage was a severed extension and an unhappy crew :confused:. Anyways, I was looking to make a new pole out of either fiberglass or aluminum (found on McMaster Carr).

What’s the ‘proper’ length of the extension? I always thought that the pole was too short (especially when my toes are in the hiking strap and I’m sitting towards the bow over the traveler) - in this scenario, the pole no longer fits in my lap.
 

LaLi

Active Member
#48
What’s the ‘proper’ length of the extension?
I am out of touch with what people are using in the class nowadays, but a good general rule of thumb is to go for the longest stick that you can tack comfortably, with the outboard end of it near the mainsheet cleat when you're head to wind. So it depends on your tiller length, too. If you're making it yourself, you might want to set the rudder at a typical mid-tack angle and measure the joint-to-mainsheet distance, as a starting point.

If you always swing the extension to the other side the other way (so it's pointing aft), then its length is a little less critical; just don't make it so long that it all too easily reaches the facial area of the crew in normal position :D

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Thread starter #49
Roll tack with no crew? What does that look like?

I found myself sailing alone the majority of the time. Which is fun, especially on a reach where the boat planes easier. The problem is, I weigh significantly under the optimal, and can’t roll the boat significantly on tacks (jibes seem to roll easier).

The usual roll (as taught in the c420) was performed by syncing the crew and skipper movement across the hull. Sometimes the crew would move across the hull again to keep the boat flat after the tack. I usually use the main sheet between the boom and block as a handle (though I’m not sure if this is good practice).
 

LaLi

Active Member
#50
Roll tack with no crew? What does that look like?
The skipper moves in the same way as with a crew. Of course, in lighter air the movement starts closer to the centreline, and ends there as well on the new tack, so you play part of the crew's role then.

I usually use the main sheet between the boom and block as a handle (though I’m not sure if this is good practice).
I'm sure it's not - if you feel you need to grab something, try something more rigid, like the traveller track.

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#51
The red boat looks excellent. Well done! Battens for the #2 and #3 pockets are about 755-775mm. Class rules keep the pockets at 800mm. The top batten varies based on the type of main used. There are longer and shorter battens, but it doesn't mean that one sail is smaller than the other by much....just different theories. Top battens are usually about 1060mm. For tiller extensions, either go short (about 950mm) or long (1450mm) If you are in need of sails, let me know. There are some donation programs that make their way down from the Olympic team. Dave Hughes (hughes470@gmail.com)
 
#52
Most boards do get scratches. However, there are shimming materials on the market to tape along the top and bottom of the centercase (this would be lengthwise to the hull). In the end, much of it depends on bolt tension. If the board is tight on land, then it will be too tight on the water. Ideally, the board wants to drop a little on land and, thus, will need a rope (or use the cunningham) to keep it in the case while ashore.
 
Thread starter #53
Most boards do get scratches. However, there are shimming materials on the market to tape along the top and bottom of the centercase (this would be lengthwise to the hull). In the end, much of it depends on bolt tension. If the board is tight on land, then it will be too tight on the water. Ideally, the board wants to drop a little on land and, thus, will need a rope (or use the cunningham) to keep it in the case while ashore.

Thanks! She’s all packed up for the season, won’t see water until next season :(. Now “bolt tension” is new... Is the “bolt” the boards pivot? This can’t be easily tightened on my boat as it is captured in glass on both sides.

I’m a bit concerned about the boards mechanism (I won’t be able to post pictures for a while :( ). The original system relied on the tension in a segment of shock chord to bias the board either “up” or “down” - no in between. I wanted to change this so I have more control over the exposed foil surface in the water. The easiest way to accomplish that, I guess, would be to use two cam cleats that lock the boards control lines - that way, the board could be “up”, “down” or anywhere in between. Any thoughts?

Thanks!
 

LaLi

Active Member
#55
In the end, much of it depends on bolt tension. If the board is tight on land, then it will be too tight on the water.
David, Ryan's boat has no centreboard "bolt" in the sense of what the vast majority of 470s have - see posts #20, 21 and 23 in this thread. (It's actually somewhat similar to what I have on my Lightning.)

Now “bolt tension” is new... Is the “bolt” the boards pivot?
Yes it is. I assume you can adjust the tension on the screws that act as the bolt, but then of course you have to take the whole thing out of the centreboard case, and the effect is probably not the same anyway.

I’m a bit concerned about the boards mechanism (I won’t be able to post pictures for a while :( ). The original system relied on the tension in a segment of shock chord to bias the board either “up” or “down” - no in between. I wanted to change this so I have more control over the exposed foil surface in the water. The easiest way to accomplish that, I guess, would be to use two cam cleats that lock the boards control lines - that way, the board could be “up”, “down” or anywhere in between. Any thoughts?
NO CLEATS! You want to have complete control over the centreboard when the boat is upside down and you can't reach any cleats then. The only way to play is to rig a continuous "friction" system which is held taut by elastic. The top boats today have separate lines for uphaul and downhaul led to the side tanks but that would be overkill for your purposes. You won't need many new parts to build a simple working system.

Discovered the “like button” today (hehe :D). Thanks for all the help!
Thanks for the thanks :D There used to be "dislike", "agree", "disagree", "informative" and "useful" buttons, too. I miss them.

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