4.7 division and light sailors

rerun

New Member
Hey everyone, just asking opinions from everyone about this:

I have been sailing for about 8 years now i used 2 be sailing a sabot and a flying ant. I wanted to get into the laser radial but it was a bit hard in 15knots plus considering i am about 10kg too light for this rig .... I then made the decision to sail a 4.7 to my astonishment alot of people were and are telling me that i should be in radial, 4.7s are only for ppl who are learning!! Its very hurtful when ppl come up to you and tell you your too old or too big for a class - considering the person who won the 4.7's worlds last year was 80kg!! The ideal/competitive weight for a 4.7 is still up near 65-70kg. i have friends who also get told this and are around 20-30kg too light for the class. how are the lighter sailors supposed to keep up with the 70-80kg ppl in our class/division??
 
rerun said:
... how are the lighter sailors supposed to keep up with the 70-80kg ppl in our class/division??

Sabotage? I didn't see anything...


But yeah, I hear ya. When it's time to move up a class, typically, racing organizations automatically bump people up... when this doesn't happen, and sandbaggers start winning, it's like greyhounds chasing the mechanical hare. The greyhounds continually race better, faster, driven to improvement, but the frustration that comes along with the futility is damaging in the long run. This is one of the bigger problems in cycling. No one has found a good solution though, in all these years.
 
rerun said:
how are the lighter sailors supposed to keep up with the 70-80kg ppl in our class/division??

By:

A: hiking harder
B: learning to depower
C: leaning to vang sheet

i weigh (66kg [light for a radial]) and am about 5-10 and i switched out of the radial into a full rig this year for lack of comptition around my area. where now i have trouble competing with the top people in a fullrigh in a breeze 66 kg is definately enough to race radial competitively in wind. You just need to Hike off your toes the whole time, depower before everyone and learn to vang sheet rediculously.
 
Mullet Time! said:
By:

66 kg is definately enough to race radial competitively in wind. You just need to Hike off your toes the whole time, depower before everyone and learn to vang sheet rediculously.

its not so much the not hiking and sheeting... its the fact that im 55kg and therefore sailing a 4.7... do u honestly think i could handle a radial now?...


u reely had lack of competition in a radial?
 
Mullet Time! said:
By:



Quote: i weigh (66kg [light for a radial]) and am about 5-10 and i switched out of the radial into a full rig this year for lack of comptition around my area.


Woah! 66kg and in a standard? In anything bove say 15knots you'd be gone wouldnt you? Im 68kg and sail a radial. Guy who won the radial worlds in the late 90's i know was 72kg when he won. and also, rerun, if you're 55 kg isnt that ok for a 4.7? I know people competitive in 4.7s who weigh 70kg... still
 
yer im an alrite weight for a 4.7 but if u had read my orginal comment u wuld understand:

I wanted to get into the laser radial but it was a bit hard in 15knots plus considering i am about 10kg too light for this rig .... I then made the decision to sail a 4.7 to my astonishment alot of people were and are telling me that i should be in radial, 4.7s are only for ppl who are learning!! Its very hurtful when ppl come up to you and tell you your too old or too big for a class - considering the person who won the 4.7's worlds last year was 80kg!!
 
sk8ingsailor said:
I weigh 55Kg. is this too little for a radial? thats what I was going to get, becasue I know of no one that sails a 4.7

Yeah, probably would be mate. 55kg is pretty much fine for a 4.7 If you're under 60kg a radial is pretty hard to handle in a bit of breeze
 
sk8ingsailor said:
I weigh 55Kg. is this too little for a radial? thats what I was going to get, becasue I know of no one that sails a 4.7

Paige Railey, the Radial World champion, weighs 65 kg. There's more to sailing any Laser rig than weight. The official weight ranges for the Radial are 55 to 70 kg, or 120 to 150 lbs. You are on the lower end, but at your age, you are sure to quickly grow into the heavier range for a Radial. From your profile, I also see that you are an experienced sailor and an athletic person. If there were a 4.7 fleet in your area, you might want to give that a try for this year, but there's not, so why worry? You'll be fine in a Radial.
 
157800 said:
how could you sail a 4.7 at 70 kilos?! that is near standard weight

quite easily provided u had a stronger wind... its about sailing the boat you feel comfortable with or if u think thats a load of crap these are what everyone reckons are the ideal weights:

laser 4.7- 50-75kg
Radial- 60-80
Full Rig- 75+

if ur around 65kg in a radial u generally shuld expect to struggle keeping it flat in anything above 15knots

the 4.7 world champion is actually heavier than the radial world champion so all the people who critise them for being too heavy maybe you should rethink your argument
 
This is an interesting thread given that the 4.7 worlds have just begun in Hourtin, France. To show how seriously they take the 4.7 in Europe, there are some 240 (yes, that is two hundred and forty) male competitors and 88 female competitors! I'm willing to bet that these are not "beginner" sailors either...

Today's results can be found http://cvhm.free.fr/
 
SFBayLaser said:
This is an interesting thread given that the 4.7 worlds have just begun in Hourtin, France. To show how seriously they take the 4.7 in Europe, there are some 240 (yes, that is two hundred and forty) male competitors and 88 female competitors! I'm willing to bet that these are not "beginner" sailors either...

i doubt any one of them would be beginners
i have a few friends currently there competing and they cant be called beginners ina pink fit... its just that they, like many others, are too light to compete in radials or they are more comfortable sailing a 4.7
regardless of this they are still told the same thingsa s i am. that they are too big, too old or must be learning and beginners if they are in this class
 
Originally posted by sk8ingsailor
I weigh 55Kg. is this too little for a radial? thats what I was going to get, becasue I know of no one that sails a 4.7

I'd say start in a 4.7 - you can always move up.

I'm about a similar weight to you and I've been sailing for years (just not in lasers) but I was majorly overpowered in a radial in 15 knots. I couldn't hold the boat down if I sheeted block to block.

However, I reckon that's mostly cause I'm not used to sailing lasers. I'm used to sailing in winds that strong. I think maybe once you've got some experience in 4.7s you'd be able to move up.

Rerun - I've noticed that about some of the 4.7 sailors here too, some of them are heaps heavy for 4.7s. Also, we have the issue about age - the majority of 4.7s here are sailed by snotty spoiled kids who think they are the best in the world. One of my friends (who is 22 and about 55kgs) has just started sailing 4.7s (having never sailed lasers before) and all the kids think this is hilarious - they act so arrogant when they beat her and they have been sailing lasers for years.
 
laser2_9804 said:
I've noticed that about some of the 4.7 sailors here too, some of them are heaps heavy for 4.7s. Also, we have the issue about age - the majority of 4.7s here are sailed by snotty spoiled kids who think they are the best in the world. One of my friends (who is 22 and about 55kgs) has just started sailing 4.7s (having never sailed lasers before) and all the kids think this is hilarious - they act so arrogant when they beat her and they have been sailing lasers for years.

true that(bout the spoilt kids) its the same everywhere i reckon. i hav a frend whos about 22 as well and doesnt even weigh 50kg n she gets crap bout sailing em let alone i do haha (n shes actually good). i just cant understand y people in this sport have to be so pretentious and arrogant... especially when they arent any good themselves:mad:

the ones that are heavy should prolly move up to radials... a majority of them are just trophy hunting... however there are some that do actually sail 4.7s because a radial is stretching too far out of their comfort zone

my summarised opinion on the snotty spoilt brat kids:

"children should be seen and not heard and should respect everyone that is older then them no matter how good the kids think they are"
 
Not only is abusing new sailors intrested in the sport mean, it deters them from it. and about the 4.7 rig, i dont think it would be aboat that you'd want to be your first(correct me if im wrong) but as the first in the laser series it is still a challenging boat. I think it would be sutiable more for lighter people looking into buying a laser
 
Radial 171107 said:
Not only is abusing new sailors intrested in the sport mean, it deters them from it. and about the 4.7 rig, i dont think it would be aboat that you'd want to be your first(correct me if im wrong) but as the first in the laser series it is still a challenging boat. I think it would be sutiable more for lighter people looking into buying a laser

"Rerun" is from a whole different zone, windwise. I believe that her region of the world (Australia) regularly gets 25 knot winds, so the comments about weights for 4.7 and Radials are heavier than what most of us are accustomed to.
 
If you are actually racing here in Australia (at least in Queensland, where I live) if the wind gets to 25 knots the race is automatically canned. However, some sailors here are accustomed to getting strong winds on a regular basis, so generally the sailors tend to be heavier than other countries.
 
although this is the case in many clubs in qld there are a few that wil still sail in 25knot+ winds... because they feel we "need to experience sailing in different weather" in nsw you will generallly find that most clubs will stil have their racing in 30knots+... then it starts to get hard.:p

although, due to the wind pattern in australia we do tend to get stronger winds here on a regular basis... many sailors still try to stick to the world "ideal" weights for their rig... however, when it come to radials and the lower end of the weight range for them, many sailors at 65kg still have difficulty keeping the boat anywhere near flat in over 10knots
 
rerun said:
although this is the case in many clubs in qld there are a few that wil still sail in 25knot+ winds... because they feel we "need to experience sailing in different weather" in nsw you will generallly find that most clubs will stil have their racing in 30knots+... then it starts to get hard.:p

although, due to the wind pattern in australia we do tend to get stronger winds here on a regular basis... many sailors still try to stick to the world "ideal" weights for their rig... however, when it come to radials and the lower end of the weight range for them, many sailors at 65kg still have difficulty keeping the boat anywhere near flat in over 10knots

i just want to add to that that in 2004 for the mooloolaba winter dinghy regatta we sailed in 35knot gusting wind. they didnt can the race, thus proving that not all clubs cancel racing at 25knots
 
Yes, I know. I kind of meant more small casual club races etc are the ones that often get canned due to inexperienced people. But you're right, to say 'ALL' was a bit of an overgeneralisation.

At the 125 Nationals in Perth last year we had one race with gusts up to 47 knots! They didn't can it and denied that it was that windy. They reckon it only got up to 20 knots (bull!) I couldn't believe how big the waves were! It was scary actually and there was so much carnage!
 
Yes, I know. I kind of meant more small casual club races etc are the ones that often get canned due to inexperienced people. But you're right, to say 'ALL' was a bit of an overgeneralisation.

At the 125 Nationals in Perth last year we had one race with gusts up to 47 knots! They didn't can it and denied that it was that windy. They reckon it only got up to 20 knots (bull!) I couldn't believe how big the waves were! It was scary actually and there was so much carnage!

haha.. yer it was a very general view.. ur prolly rite though about the smaller club events being canned. 47knots is always fun:D
that wuldv bin scary if you were sayin there was carnage. i remember in ants we used 2 go out in that for club stuff and it was fun... but you generally ended up breaking something or injuring yourslef
 
rerun said:
how are the lighter sailors supposed to keep up with the 70-80kg ppl in our class/division??

How about moving into a different division where there's none of this, "I'm heavy but I'll sail a 4.7 anyways because I'm cheap like that"
 
because when theres only one division for your weight thats raced on the inernational circuit its pretty limited lol
 
i have jsut moved up to radials from 4.7 and i only weigh 65kg. in the middle east i found that i was too heavy for the winds as they were mostly very light so that is the reason why i have moved up but where you are going to be sailing has alot to do with it i rekon
 
Cough cough OPTI'S why are you even in a laser? you should still be in a Opti!i just stopped sailing optis 1 month ago. im 13, and weigh 120. im in a radial now.
 
sk8ingsailor said:
Cough cough OPTI'S why are you even in a laser? you should still be in a Opti!i just stopped sailing optis 1 month ago. im 13, and weigh 120. im in a radial now.

The 4.7 is meant for sailors between 80 and 120 lbs, so if he's Lasering, he should be in a 4.7. However, many places in the states don't have 4.7 fleets yet.
 
rerun said:
its not so much the not hiking and sheeting... its the fact that im 55kg and therefore sailing a 4.7... do u honestly think i could handle a radial now?...


u reely had lack of competition in a radial?


hmmm.. i weigh around 55kg and am sailing a radial. :S it's challenging but fun once you start planing and going faster than everyone on the reaches and downwinds!:p
 
Hello rerun,

I am around 50kg.. and I have always been wishing for 4.7 to get popular in my country... unfortunately this is not likely to happen.

I am sailing a radial at the moment with of course I am easily overpowered.. But my point is you still can enjoy sailing in your 55kg in a radial *wink*
 

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