beldar boathead
Married to Primat Boathead
M Fullana said his boat was new - didn’t mention it being a Worlds boat. It also looks like it might be white and not ice blue, but cannot tell for sure.
2019 Sunfish Worlds boat: deck failure
- Thread starter Scottb
- Start date
M Fullana said his boat was new - didn’t mention it being a Worlds boat. It also looks like it might be white and not ice blue, but cannot tell for sure.
L&VW
Well-Known Member
'Looks like the mast step failed where it’s attached at the bottom.
Gelcoat cracks appear to show stress delivered fore and aft, but only when the mast is in place. (For the necessary leverage). This would rule out a shipping/handling error.
I'd buy this boat from LP--at a discount.
My boat was packed well and arrived without cracking. It arrived in early winter, I waxed it, then it immediately went into storage. Cracks were noticed before I sailed it this spring. They developed as the boat aged. I believe its a gel coat curing issue, or build process change issue. My boat did crack in the non skid area during the first sail. Heard that one happen.
Cracks on both boats are in the front of the step on the deck. Thinking now the deck is in tension, like the mast tube is placing upward stress on the deck. Mast tube is molded with the deck, and when the deck and hull are bonded together the tolerance is too tight, or removal of foam has changed the dynamic when they are clamped together. Just a theory, as the tube structure itself appears solid. This issue presents differently than Laser step issues, as those boats age. I have repaired several, and one where the factory only partly bonded the tube to the hull. That was an older boat, took years to become apparent.
beldar boathead
Married to Primat Boathead
I suspect LP didn’t thoroughly evaluate building without the foam blocks, or tried some new building technique without adequate testing. Will be interesting to see how prevalent this problem is.
Cactus Cowboy
Well-Known Member
I think you've hit on the reason for the cracks... no support from foam where there once was support, and too much flexing of the deck around the mast step when the rig is powered. I remember sailing off the Point with a friend when the lower end of my Laser mast step tube cracked; close-hauled on the starboard tack in a stiff breeze, and all that drive from the rig above caused the deck immediately surrounding the step to flex & heave every which way. I immediately fell off and limped downwind to make an emergency landing through the surf on the Silver Strand... a dicey run, not knowing if the damage would get worse while we were still under way.
But I'll never forget how that deck was flexing and heaving, it was crazy, and my priorities immediately changed, so as not to damage the step any further and find ourselves dismasted, LOL. We made it to the Strand alright, and luckily the surf wasn't too big that day... but that crack sounded like a rifle shot when the step failed in a stiff breeze, and the wild flexing & heaving of the deck was ugly to see. Even with the step tube intact, you know that deck area surrounding the step flexes a bit when the breeze picks up... while the step itself has always been a pinpoint stress location aboard small craft like the Sunfish and Laser.
Seems like it's also a 'decline in quality' issue, with the newer boats more cheaply made... but that holds with just about everything these days. I believe your theory is correct, especially since the step tube still "appears solid." I know my old Laser (#2069) was more solidly built than some newer Lasers, let alone the Sunfish, a fact which probably kept us from dismasting as we limped downwind to the Strand, doing everything we could to lighten the load on the rig and step. Dagger & rudder up too, or partially up for the rudder, to keep the hull moving through the water and lessen the impact of gusts on the rig and cracked step.
THE CRACKS IN THOSE NEWER SUNFISH DECKS JUST SCREAM CHEAP & SHODDY CONSTRUCTION, LIKE CORNERS HAVE BEEN CUT TO REDUCE COSTS AND THE QUALITY NOW SUFFERS... JUST MY $.02, OF COURSE.
Am I correct in assuming the cracks are just in the (thin) gel coat and that the underlying structural fiberglass/resin is OK? What do the gel coat pros on this Forum think about this?
PS: It would be informative to know if M_fullana's boat was in the same batch as the 2019 Worlds Sunfishes.
Here is what the HIN looks like on those boats:
PS: It would be informative to know if M_fullana's boat was in the same batch as the 2019 Worlds Sunfishes.
Here is what the HIN looks like on those boats:
Attachments
beldar boathead
Married to Primat Boathead
They also keep moving manufacturing around. At least 2 plants in China, plus GB, and supposedly Portugal next. So nobody has much history making Sunfish.
And, although I think there is probably more to the story, LP lost the right to make class-legal Lasers as they would not let ILCA observe the manufacturing process. So as many of you know, LP’s newest Lasers are not legal in Intl Laser Class Assoc events!!
And, although I think there is probably more to the story, LP lost the right to make class-legal Lasers as they would not let ILCA observe the manufacturing process. So as many of you know, LP’s newest Lasers are not legal in Intl Laser Class Assoc events!!
mixmkr
Well-Known Member
Why wouldn't they just glass in some "stringers" or ribs. That would be extremely easy, inexpensive, and eliminate any flexing. If the boat didn't leak, you wouldn't need flotation either.
L&VW
Well-Known Member
Using the fairlead as a guide, your boat has arc'd cracks on both sides (fore and aft) of the step.
M_fullana's boat shows similar arcs, but doesn't have a good picture forward of the mast step, so perhaps there aren't any—forward on his Sunfish.
Most of the arc'd cracks on my most-seasoned Sunfish indicate a force delivered from that direction. (That is, the cracks "point" to the source of the force).
Well, as I wrote the above, it seemed clear to me.
Stringers would work.
After 50 years—and uncountable miles—our "seasoned Sunfish" don't seem to have been "under-built".
"Flotation" is required in boats under 20-feet: Other sailboats under 20-feet have been installing the required flotation hither and yon. Our older Sunfish benefit from designed-in deck support.
.Where the deck's old Styrofoam has been compacted from owners' steps and falls, I might learn a lesson from these newer Sunfish and add some strips of new Styrofoam atop the existing blocks. This should keep the deck from flexing too much. That is, when my weight needs to be on it. Or, when I fall on it.
Cactus Cowboy
Well-Known Member
Stringers would indeed work... after I repaired both ends of the mast step tube in my old Laser, I decided to strengthen the deck surrounding the step by installing two aluminum straps bolted through the deck itself, the straps running athwartships, fore & aft of the step itself. I did this because I was concerned about mast step failure out by the islands, far enough away from the Baja peninsula and "civilization" for such failure to be a BIG problem. Worked like a charm, the deck was solid after that, even though the two step repairs (upper & lower end of the tube) were also solid. I used a bench grinder to round the ends of the straps for safety, and bolted 'em on with nice S/S machine bolts, fender washers, and nylon lock nuts. Gave the boat a hardcore punk look, LOL, but I never had mast step problems again, which meant peace of mind during island voyages to Los Coronados... but as Mixmkr suggested, stringers would work equally well (if not better) and solve the unruly deck-flexing problem which leads to so many stress cracks. Hell, if I had the money, I'd make like the owner of Comanche and build a Laser hull entirely out of carbon fiber, with stringers just like those seen in the Comanche videos I posted a couple days ago.
beldar boathead
Married to Primat Boathead
We are talking LP here!
pehare
Member
Do you fellows think this mast step plate is a good idea in older boats? TIA
Please start a new thread for this topic.
In the meantime, let me point out that this disk is for the Laser.
california_dude
Member
I'm little late and no Holmes, but allow me to deduct...
Facts: The above two boats where received and had no gelcoat cracks, and only after one or two days of sailing in light to moderate wind and water conditions cracks appeared.
Reasoning: If these two boats had been used before in similar or heavier sailing conditions, the cracks would be already present.
Considering location of cracks, it is fair to assume that new owners would have noticed cracks immediately upon unpacking the boats.
Conclusion: These boats were never used before, and by default, not used in Worlds or transported back and forth between many different locations.
Would you all like me to weigh in on notion that these boats are made in Great Britain, or do you still prefer to believe that they are?
Boathead?
Fremont
Active Member
So this thread segues into a question, on my 1978ish Sunny, there are a few surface cracks in the gel coat, half a foot or so aft of the cockpit. I assume some large person sat there. How do I fix or fill that? I have a gelcoat repair kit, can I just mix up some matching goo and squeegee it into the cracks?
I've repaired chips in gelcoat on my old Hobies and some on Sparky's splash deflector, but never had cracks.
I've repaired chips in gelcoat on my old Hobies and some on Sparky's splash deflector, but never had cracks.
L&VW
Well-Known Member
I had those same cracks, too.
They're located about where the deck is supported by vertical bulkheads.But I "put them off", as this was a Sunfish that had been raced.
One crack eventually exposed a small amount of the original roving.
It didn't help that I was about 200 pounds when the cracks eventually circled the entire cockpit! My "regular-use" Sunfish's entire cockpit rim flexes too easily now.
My other four Sunfish have no similar cracks...so...I'd do what I could to strengthen or rebuild that weakened area.
While it's going to "show", I'd add three layers of cloth above where the bulkheads meet the deck.
(If you're heavy, "nip this one in the bud").