2019 Sunfish vs older ones?

beachygirl

New Member
I am new to sailing and have been looking into buying a boat. I explored different options. I decided on a sunfish. I went to see a new sunfish at a "dealership" , I was told they no longer make the hull with foam due to it holding on to water. Now they have airbags and self bailing. I also noticed a well taken care of older boat is nearly the same coast as a brand new one. Does anyone here have a new one that once had an older one? Any major differences? Likes/dislikes on new and older?
Thanks!!
 
I bought my Sunfish new last year and also have a 1977 Alcort. Both sail quite well and the Alcort is amazing as it has been in the family for forty three years. My new boat was made in China and if you read the thread at the top of the Forum page titled "2019 Sunfish Worlds" there were some very unsettling issues with the Chinese made boats in 2017. From what I can tell, my boat is well built and does not have these problems. I have been out in some pretty heavy conditions on Tomales Bay here in California and my boat performed great. Not sure if other private owners have had any problems. I haven't seen posts from others who own boats produced in China. It seems the 2019's may be being produced in Great Britain. Last winter, I came across a beautiful, lightly used 2009 Vanguard Sunfish for $2,000 and wanted to buy it a lot. If I knew anyone who wanted to sail but didn't have a boat, I may have found a way. It is less than an hour from my house. If I had to do it over? I really like my new boat and like that no one has ever owned it but me but I could have had a very well regarded Vanguard for half the price. Having said that, there are very few newer Sunfish boats here in California for sale. Most that I have seen are a bit older and I didn't want a boat with hidden problems. (Didn't know of the issues with the Chinese boats at the time. I thought a Sunfish is a Sunfish). You may have a lot more options where you live so you may want to look around for a newer boat that has been well maintained.
 

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Hi norcalsail
First, you have a beautiful boat. Laser performance? Thank you for sharing, I appreciate it very much. I will have to look for the thread about being made in China. I thought they were manufactured here.

A young man that I was speaking with at the dealership told me about the hull change (no foam) with a story about an older one that they could not get the water out or got it to dry out. (They kept weighing it) not that I know much at this point, but it sounded like a good improvement. Have you heard this?

A perk buying from them new or preowned is you can leave your boat there for a reasonable fee for the season. (In my neighborhood, so a few blocks away) They are on a bay beach, so no trailering for me. I just need a Dollie which is very appealing to me. They also have a sailing club, meet ups and events so you get to meet new people and have them to go out with. They also race every Sunday but not formally, just for fun.

If I purchased elsewhere things will be a lot different.

I am happy I am going with sunfish. I was considering a holder 14. I was steered away from it and I am happy I researched and asked questions on here. Nice bunch !!

Well here is a picture I took of a 2019
It looks white in the picture and in real life but he said it is “ice blue” but showed white with the lighting. I am not sure what other options they have, the others were still in boxes in there wear-house.

Thanks again, I enjoyed your post!
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The 2019 hull improvements are quite new and I believe my 2018 boat from China hull still has the foam. The photo I attached is of my 1977 Alcort Sunfish (red and white sail-the red, white and blue sail is of my new boat) and it is riding high in the water so I am assuming it is pretty dry in the hull although I didn't weigh the boat. Boats that get damaged can leak and become water logged. Hulls should weigh around 130 lbs. Your situation sounds ideal and someone may be able to direct you to a very good newish boat too. The boat in the photo is really great looking; my new one still reflects like that! Yes, Sunfish is the boat for me. My sailing friends have Lasers and they are great, fast and not too hard to rig. I learned on a Sunfish and have become much better at sailing since I now have one sitting in my back yard. The Sunfish Forum has a lot of information and a lot of really knowledgeable people who can answer your questions and provide sound advice. Hope you get a boat you like as much as I like mine!:cool:
 
Having perks like you mentioned can quickly offset the cost of a new boat. I wouldn't dismiss them. I've seen lots of situations with larger boats, that when they are sold (used boats mainly), the new owner gets the marina slip that they were in, if wanted....sometimes very desired if the marina has a slip waiting list. Sounds like you may have a similar opportunity.
The air bags apparently are perceived to be better as the Sunfish with the foam floatation, should they leak...and after awhile, many do, the "expanding foam" that holds the foam flotation blocks can tend to hold water, thus making the boat heavier....much more so in some cases. They can be dried out during an off season with ventilation and then repaired so they don't leak anymore. Laser's have the air bags too, so it's not like they are an unproven method.
Ok...all that... older Sunfish sometimes are very easy to find at low cost. I 'rescued' a 1969 Sunfish for free and put about $500 for a snazzy tiller and new sail, lines, ratchet block, etc. I love it. I also prefer the Sunfish over other daysailors because they are easy to sail, can be sailed by "pros" and set up in seconds. The only downside is that two adults is pushing the weight limit and space available. It's best as a single person boat.... so that solution is to have a friend that has one too!
Good luck. That boat is a beauty in your pic. Here's mine...
 

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norcalsail,

how lucky you are to have two! Both beauties and you can see well cared for. I was down at the dinghy shop today and they told me the 2019 was manufactured in GB. I am not getting the boat in the picture, I saw the ice blue in the proper lighting and I wasn't crazy for it.. I am leaning with the white boat with the blue trim because the sail I picked out is the bay breeze ( pink and blue stripe) and it will not go with the red and I like the red very much.
They do not have a large pre-owned inventory..one to be exact, so I will go with the new one...Its so good to know that you love your boat and no doubt you enjoy both of them very much, yes I hope I love mine the same! great forum, I have to put time aside to read much more than I have... :)
 
mixmkr
Thank you and they are great perks for sure. They do not have boat slips, it's a beach front. Easy to unload on a dolly. So very convenient for sure.
I talked with him today about indoor winter storage in his wearhouse and that is a go also. It's more expensive to buy new, but the convenience/storage
is worth it. (
They talked me out of the wood rudder blade and dagger board ...?? )

I am glad to hear the airbags have been used in the laser, I did wonder what problems would come with them thinking this was a first..I guess it is fine. Good find on your 69'! It affords you to make it "new" again! and omg I love, love, love! your sail!! Was that custom??? very unique and beautiful..!!! I am jealous!

ps...did not know two adults was difficult... I see pictures with two on...we will see how that goes lol
 
norcalsail,

how lucky you are to have two! Both beauties and you can see well cared for. I was down at the dinghy shop today and they told me the 2019 was manufactured in GB. I am not getting the boat in the picture, I saw the ice blue in the proper lighting and I wasn't crazy for it.. I am leaning with the white boat with the blue trim because the sail I picked out is the bay breeze ( pink and blue stripe) and it will not go with the red and I like the red very much.
They do not have a large pre-owned inventory..one to be exact, so I will go with the new one...Its so good to know that you love your boat and no doubt you enjoy both of them very much, yes I hope I love mine the same! great forum, I have to put time aside to read much more than I have... :)


Color is very important to me. I really like my clean white deck with the red cockpit and red splash guard. I bought some red striping but am not sure if I will put it on. It seems you have your colors picked out. Post photos of your new boat as everyone will be interested! Also, while two adults is kind of tight, I took my wife out back in Wisconsin in the Old Sunfish and we had a good time.
 
Norcalsail

It’s a beautiful combination (red/white) I love it, but I wanted a girly sail and being pink and blue clashed with the red. Not to many choices in sails. Believe it or not I like the 60th anniversary one,, orange and red fish. Different!! If I could get that one I would do the red still thinking it through (I am picky too!!) decisions, decisions lol
 
I love it, but I wanted a girly sail...
Color is important! I bought a 1973 Sunfish with a blues and pink sail (like yours? See my avatar pic here) two weeks ago (my first), and at the time there was a 1974 with a red white and blue sail available from another seller for slightly cheaper. But, the family preferred the pretty one. =)

The airbag situation intrigues me. Seems like a good alternative to trying to replace old or missing styrofoam. I suppose I’d want the valve stems within reach, for the eventual necessary pump up...
 
I am new to sailing and have been looking into buying a boat. I explored different options. I decided on a sunfish. I went to see a new sunfish at a "dealership" , I was told they no longer make the hull with foam due to it holding on to water. Now they have airbags and self bailing. I also noticed a well taken care of older boat is nearly the same coast as a brand new one. Does anyone here have a new one that once had an older one? Any major differences? Likes/dislikes on new and older?
Thanks!!

Some interesting developments concerning the construction of our beloved Sunfish. But let me first clear up some misconceptions.
1. A really nice 'used' Sunfish (with upgrades) should cost no more than $3500 and more likely around $2500. I am talking about a Vanguard made in the later years (after 2000 and before LP moved the operation out of the USA). My 2006 boat with all the race upgrades cost about $3500 at the time. The current price of a new fish is almost $5000 (for the 'race' version without a dolly). Of course, such a really nice older boat might not be available right now in your area. And a new one comes with some support and a warranty. Perhaps Dinghy Shop has offered you a discount from list or included some add-ons.


2. Now about the construction. The argument about the foam getting wet is nonsense because a new boat shouldn't leak in the first place. The foam supports (ever since the early days) are important for rigidity. Airbags are used in the Laser, but they do not contribute to strength; they are just for flotation. I am actually quite surprised that the Class allowed the foam to be replaced by nothing. Is it possible that LP made this change without approval of the Class (ISCA)?

More in general, the Dinghy Shop is a very reputable dealer who has supported the Class for a long time. They (Jim and daughter) do know more about the boats than I do. But I would continue to quiz them about the foam support issue. You really don't want a boat that will start to flex in waves. And one should be able to stand on the deck without issues!

Good luck with the learning process; I hope you will be sailing soon.
 
Hi Desultor
very pretty! Love the soft colors in the sail! I wish there were more choices to choose from.. such a big decision!
I also know this new one is self bailing...this is my very first so I do not have anything to compare it to...but very exciting :)
 
Wavedancer
Thank you, you definitely brought up some valuable points. This is my first boat and I honestly do not know a lot about them, but I am sure trying to learn. It's late in the season, so I guess I am eager. I have looked at pre-owned and I have seen them for 3500 and up..this boat is 4630.00...
I really like Jim, he has been in this community for a very long time and brings a lot to us. I will talk to him about the airbags, but they seemed excited to share ...what you said makes a lot of sense ... I am second guessing now. I did ask if they had any "leftover's" 2018, but they don't..inventory fly's out of there as soon as it comes in...Thanks again for your input, I really appreciate it, I am getting an education by being here..so my thanks to all! :)
 
Wavedancer
Thank you, you definitely brought up some valuable points. This is my first boat and I honestly do not know a lot about them, but I am sure trying to learn. It's late in the season, so I guess I am eager. I have looked at pre-owned and I have seen them for 3500 and up..this boat is 4630.00...
I really like Jim, he has been in this community for a very long time and brings a lot to us. I will talk to him about the airbags, but they seemed excited to share ...what you said makes a lot of sense ... I am second guessing now. I did ask if they had any "leftover's" 2018, but they don't..inventory fly's out of there as soon as it comes in...Thanks again for your input, I really appreciate it, I am getting an education by being here..so my thanks to all! :)
The Sunfish I'm sailing now, I bought using Craigslist. (WTB—Wanted-to-Buy, Sunfish-complete: $250). I agreed to pay $300, 'cuz the seller volunteered to transport it to me. (Saving a drive of 2½-hours each way). It's a terrific boat, and the only thing it needed was to remove the masking tape the seller had used to start painting the bottom. (I painted it myself). The sail was (is) perfect and pretty. I may quadruple my money when I sell it. :cool: (I have five Sunfish!) :confused:

Sure, a pre-owned Sunfish may have holes in the sail, a dinged-up daggerboard, scratches, dents, ratty lines, and in need of varnish on the wood. Your first sailboat doesn't need to be perfect (or even close to perfect).

Nothing against your dealer, but learning to sail can do damage to your new boat. As you can read on this forum, sailing is not intuitive :oops: .

Buy a complete Sunfish from the 1970s, and the major thing to check is its weight. (Maximum about 135 pounds). Even an overweight Sunfish can be saved by drying-out. Also consider that the three major parts (sail, rudder, and daggerboard) have a replacement cost of roughly $150 each.

The big white foam "support blocks" are usually good, but the yellow foam used to hold the blocks in place can absorb water, making for a heavy boat. (Very undesirable). A pre-owned boat, bought cheaply, can be used to learn sailing, then sold later for the same amount! :)
 
I wasn't using my new boat for lessons...you learn on their sunfish. You definitely got a great deal @ 300! I have zero doubt you have a great little boat, but I did not want to go that far back in age. I fully relate to what you are pointing out and I have had the same thoughts.. **many times** and have looked for countless hours... the older ones I came across were pretty beaten up...The newer pre-owned (2000 's ) is close in price as the new ones..

Yes, this is a new adventure for me and I have no doubt I will love it and have my boat for many years to enjoy through the seasons...I look at it's just not a boat, I am gaining a sailing family, outings, races, events , winter sailing if I choose, warranty and no trailing, ( not buying a trailer, which saves me $$) beachside storage in season, indoor winter storage and lots of support etc...so there was a lot for me to think about and weigh out.. it's almost the same as that new car smell :) I grew up on the water, my parents had a boat and we have two now...plus I paddle board. Both my "kids" took lessons and sailed for quite a few years so they can take it out anytime as well... this sums it up in how I made my decision...

Thank you for sharing, I appreciate different point of views and hearing different experiences :)
 
Here are some recent model used ones, all pre-China, for sale you could look at. Also I know the Dinghy Shop folks well. I’m not sure what they mean by the boats are now self bailing. They have been since 1955! It is the cockpit that bails, not the hull, which should be dry in the first place.

Looks very nice 14' Vanguard Sunfish Sailboat

New sail would be good on this one. Offer $2000? Sunfish Sailboat

Another nice choice
2003 Sunfish Sailboat

This boat has a replacement sail and is in sloatsburg Vanguard Sunfish Sailboat

If the boat comes without a dolly several are for sale - only buy a Dynamic or Seitech.
 
Aw thank you so much Chris Williams for taking your time to post all the links for me. Yes, all in very nice condition!!

If I did buy one of them I would have to buy a trailer $$$ and trail it. (Only one had a dolly) so I would have to buy that also. It would basically be around the same cost or close to it. I wouldn't have the perks that the dingy shop offered to me either. Jim is an amazing man. He truly cares about his sailing family and his support will always be there for you. I live in amityville and he truly cares about our community and our environment. So these things you couldn’t put a price tag on. Before I stopped in there I did look at all pre-owned. Then one day I stopped down and spoke with them is when I started considering buy new. As for self bailing they just told me that it was. Sorry if I worded it incorrectly
This is all new to me , I am still learning.

I guess being new at sailing I like the feeling of not being “alone” out there.

Thanks again for your foot work, that was super nice and I truly appreciated it very much!
 
Early in my sailing career, Lowell North once told me, “Dennis, to get what you want sometimes you have to be creative.” To that point, you could save a lot of money by having the dealer with the beach buy one of those used boats, Mark it up by maybe $800, and then sell it to you. You get a used boat for around $3000, the dealer makes a healthy profit for a couple hours work, and you get use of the beach!
 
Early in my sailing career, Lowell North once told me, “Dennis, to get what you want sometimes you have to be creative.”

Wise words! That is good advice. The dealer probably would make more with this approach than selling the new boat. You will save $2000 dollars, and you won’t have to take a chance on this new construction approach. Historically it has been said the foam blocks help stiffen the boat.
 
beldar boat head,
it is very good advice! after reading about the foam giving is stability it made perfect sense.. hmmmm???
 
beldar boat head,
it is very good advice! after reading about the foam giving is stability it made perfect sense.. hmmmm???
Well Beachygirl, decisions, decisions LOL:D. My guess would be that the new design of the 2019's is strong and will last a long time. But being of the first to buy one gives one pause. The obvious conundrum I suppose. My Stepdad grew up in Northport back in the 40's and 50's. I think that's close to where you are. He used to sail on Long Island Sound as a teenager. Though my biological father taught me to sail, my Stepdad was probably a better sailor. Hope you guys get your boat and get on the water soon!
 
Norcalsail (lol )

Northport is truly a beautiful town! That is on the north shore of Long Island (Long Island sound) I am on the south shore , Atlantic Ocean/great South Bay.

I appreciate yours and everyone’s guidance , thoughts and suggestions on here. You are a bunch of experienced sailors and gave me a lot to think about..

I have weighed it out so many times, the math is nearly the same... excellent condition pre-owned vs new... many of the pre-owned did not include a trailer or dolly... I would have to purchase both, $ and have to trailer it each time I wanted to go out, get a beach permit to launch and to leave the trailer there while I was out. Honestly I rather not. I like the convenience of just having my boat 5 giant steps to the shore line, or maybe I am lazy lol!! JK !! I honestly think who ever had these choices would do the same, I feel very lucky to have this option

So..... I made a decision!!
First, I am not getting the White with blue , I am getting the red! Thrilled! Blue is for boys

I am super excited because...... after calling all over the country looking for the 60th anniversary sail, not one, but... it was right under my nose... at the dingy shop!!! Brand new, and just one!!!

I am a believer of meant to be... and this was that moment that I knew 100% I made the right choice
So it will look exactly like this!!!

How super cool is this???

7C8F7B3E-1831-4D03-9773-CDE89751A516.jpeg
 
Norcalsail (lol )

Northport is truly a beautiful town! That is on the north shore of Long Island (Long Island sound) I am on the south shore , Atlantic Ocean/great South Bay.

I appreciate yours and everyone’s guidance , thoughts and suggestions on here. You are a bunch of experienced sailors and gave me a lot to think about..

I have weighed it out so many times, the math is nearly the same... excellent condition pre-owned vs new... many of the pre-owned did not include a trailer or dolly... I would have to purchase both, $ and have to trailer it each time I wanted to go out, get a beach permit to launch and to leave the trailer there while I was out. Honestly I rather not. I like the convenience of just having my boat 5 giant steps to the shore line, or maybe I am lazy lol!! JK !! I honestly think who ever had these choices would do the same, I feel very lucky to have this option

So..... I made a decision!!
First, I am not getting the White with blue , I am getting the red! Thrilled! Blue is for boys

I am super excited because...... after calling all over the country looking for the 60th anniversary sail, not one, but... it was right under my nose... at the dingy shop!!! Brand new, and just one!!!

I am a believer of meant to be... and this was that moment that I knew 100% I made the right choice
So it will look exactly like this!!!

How super cool is this???

View attachment 33512
Very, very cool...⛵
 

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