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2012 Laser Masters Worlds

Tillerman

Member
I can't see any official notice about the date or location of the 2012 Laser Masters Worlds on the ILCA website yet, but an article in Sail-World, about PSA ex-charter boats for sale, lists several upcoming major regattas in Australia and says that the 2012 Laser Masters World Championships will be from 12 – 19 March 2012 hosted by the Royal Queensland Yacht Squadron.

Can anyone confirm if that is correct?
 

Tillerman

Member
Kind of strange that the manufacturer would announce this first rather than the class. Or have PSA/ Global Sailing already gone ahead with their reported threat to start a new class association? Will this actually be the first Kirby Sailboat Masters Worlds?
 

ncusdan

New Member
The Royal Queensland Yacht Squadron lists the Laser Masters Worlds in their sailing calender. The dates coincide with the ones listed in the in the article in Sail World. The link is: /www.rqys.com.au/index.php/rqys-marine-sports-calendar/.
 

Tillerman

Member
Still no notice in the World Championships section on the ILCA website as far as I can see. But if TonyB says it's correct then it must be true.

I thought the Masters Worlds were originally planned for Perth. Anybody know why they were moved?
 

AlanD

Former ISAF Laser Measurer
The rarely put up notice for the worlds, until the current ones are finished as they aren't approved by the World Council meeting till then.
 

TonyB

Member
I don't know all the details, but I believe the change away from Perth had something to do with the expense of moving enough charter boats across the continent. There will be some there for the ISAF Worlds in December, but not enough.
 

Tillerman

Member
I don't know all the details, but I believe the change away from Perth had something to do with the expense of moving enough charter boats across the continent. There will be some there for the ISAF Worlds in December, but not enough.
Makes sense. I guess Brisbane is much more accessible than Perth to most Australian Laser sailors too.

I was excited about Perth. It's one of my favorite cities in the whole world. But Brisbane is a wonderful city too (was there in 2000) and there are plenty of other fantastic places to visit in Queensland - Barrier Reef, Whitsundays, Fraser Island. This could be one of the best Masters Worlds destinations ever.
 

TonyB

Member
Makes sense. I guess Brisbane is much more accessible than Perth to most Australian Laser sailors too.

I was excited about Perth. It's one of my favorite cities in the whole world. But Brisbane is a wonderful city too (was there in 2000) and there are plenty of other fantastic places to visit in Queensland - Barrier Reef, Whitsundays, Fraser Island. This could be one of the best Masters Worlds destinations ever.
I was really looking forward to Perth as well, sailing in the big breeze at Fremantle would have been an experience. But yes, Brisbane is a great city and Queensland has plenty of spectacular places to visit. The sailing club itself has probably the best facilities of any in Australia, if not the world, and the sailing will be sensational. Warm, sheltered waters, and in March we can pretty much guarantee a good racing breeze every day. Of course I'm not biased though...

A word of advice to anyone thinking of coming - there is an onsite motel at the sailing club (http://www.manlymarinacove.com/) but once that and a couple of smaller local places fill up you may have to travel a shortish distance to find a bed. There are plenty of options within a 25 minute drive (closer to the city centre) or probably camping at the club if you are equipped, but not much within an easy walk.

Of course the organisers may be looking into other accommodation deals, but if I was thinking of travelling to the regatta I'd be thinking about making a tentative booking at the motel. I think the current plan is for the Australian Masters Nationals to be at the same location the week before the Worlds, so maybe also consider a longer booking to include that.
 

Sean

Member
A word of advice to anyone thinking of coming - there is an onsite motel at the sailing club (http://www.manlymarinacove.com/) but once that and a couple of smaller local places fill up you may have to travel a shortish distance to find a bed. There are plenty of options within a 25 minute drive (closer to the city centre) or probably camping at the club if you are equipped, but not much within an easy walk.

Of course the organisers may be looking into other accommodation deals, but if I was thinking of travelling to the regatta I'd be thinking about making a tentative booking at the motel.
Call me a cynic Tony but I would bet most of the motel will be taken up by officials as the dorms at Yachting Queensland will certainly not be good enough for our esteemed juries etc. I would think lesser ranked officials will be staying in Yachting Queensland dormitories and the rest in the motel.

I will be booking the motel soon just in case I decide to go. I will not be at all surprised to be told that all rooms are already gone.

Maybe I should just toss the boat on my camper and stay on site if I can for the Worlds . Might even do that if I come up for the masters event on the 20th May. I see a lot of Radials have entered the South Pacific Laser Masters this year.
 

TonyB

Member
Call me a cynic Tony but I would bet most of the motel will be taken up by officials as the dorms at Yachting Queensland will certainly not be good enough for our esteemed juries etc. I would think lesser ranked officials will be staying in Yachting Queensland dormitories and the rest in the motel.

I will be booking the motel soon just in case I decide to go. I will not be at all surprised to be told that all rooms are already gone.

Maybe I should just toss the boat on my camper and stay on site if I can for the Worlds . Might even do that if I come up for the masters event on the 20th May. I see a lot of Radials have entered the South Pacific Laser Masters this year.
You're a cynic Sean! You're probably right though. For the 2004 Radial Worlds I think most of the officials were billeted around the neighbourhood but that was before the motel was built. Camping is definitely the way to go if you have the gear.

It'd be great if you came up for SPLM next week. Twenty Radials and 18 Standards entered so far, so it is building into a decent sized regatta. Hopefully we can get close to 30 boats on the line for each fleet.
 

colindibb

New Member
Makes sense. I guess Brisbane is much more accessible than Perth to most Australian Laser sailors too.

I was excited about Perth. It's one of my favorite cities in the whole world. But Brisbane is a wonderful city too (was there in 2000) and there are plenty of other fantastic places to visit in Queensland - Barrier Reef, Whitsundays, Fraser Island. This could be one of the best Masters Worlds destinations ever.
This reeks of Kirby politics!!

The Fremantle 2012 Masters worlds was planned to be in mid-February 2012 (2 months after ISAF 2011 Champs).
  • The charter boats would have been in Fremantle from the 2011 event (300+) anyway so it wasn't about the lack of charter boats.
  • They would have needed to be stored for 2 months but there is access to a warehouse over the road from FSC which is being used to store them for 2011 anyway so it's not that either.
  • The 2011 organisers were providing race teams and all infrastructure and had planned to extend the employment contracts of some key staff to cover the event. In addition the Fremantle Sailing Club has very good facilities to handle 300+ Lasers on lawns with 3 launching ramps so it's not the infrastructure.
  • The weather in Fremantle in February is warm (30C), dry and sunny and the seabreeze is nearly always in the 18-23 knot range which is less than what we have just had in San Francisco. The water is very clear (can see the bottom on the course) and there are no perceptible currents. So it's not the weather.
  • The accommodation options in Fremantle are much better than Manly (Brisbane is actually about 20 kms away) so it's not that either.
  • As far as tourism goes, Western Australia has lots to do. We even have our answer to the Great Barrier Reef (Ningaloo). So it's not that either.
So what was it? The official reason I'm told is that PSA and ILCA could not agree the charter fee! So what's different in Brisbane?

Everyone I spoke to in San Francisco was disappointed they would not be sailing in Fremantle and so am I. Oh, and to all my friends in Brisbane, I love sailing there as well, I just believe the Worlds should have been in Fremantle as awarded by ILCA years ago.
 

SFBayLaser

Member
First, congratulations Colin on a fine job in beating out Peter Vessella to win the Standard Grandmasters! That was some great sailing!

The weather in Fremantle in February is warm (30C), dry and sunny and the seabreeze is nearly always in the 18-23 knot range which is less than what we have just had in San Francisco.
Ha! "Less"! And you sailed in the early group! And there was that guy, the one who kept reminding us of the value of his time, who was complaining about not sailing in enough wind!
So, all my sailing friends here in San Francisco who have sailed in Freemantle (from the AC way back when to as recently as the Etchells Worlds a few years ago) say that San Francisco is calm in comparison. I guess at the Etchells Worlds it was 25+ every day? Maybe because its colder it just seems windier here?

So what was it? The official reason I'm told is that PSA and ILCA could not agree the charter fee! So what's different in Brisbane?
One comment about charter fees: I was told by a US competitor that the charter fee for the ISAF Combined Worlds amounts to over $2000 US! Since that is an ISAF event ILCA has no say in the charter fee, but if that were going to be the charter fee for the Master Worlds then I'd think that price would seriously impact participation.

As a San Francisco sailor I'm disappointed to not get to go to Freemantle to sail. But I've never been to Brisbane either and figure that wherever we go its going to be great sailing so am already starting to make plans for it.
 

colindibb

New Member
Ouch, $2000 is steep. Especially if you have to use your own sail as I have heard (not sure about the 2011 champs). Can't believe this is what they were trying to get for the Masters. It would be cheaper to buy new and you would probably not drop more than $1000 on re-sale.
Wind speed feels very different when it's cold. I was referring to the forecasts. Our weather service here calls for 18-23 knots just about every day in summer. Granted it does get up there at times (best I've had was 37 on a run from Rockingham to Freo) but it's the exception.

Anyway I'm sure you will have a great sail in Brisbane. If you are ever over our way, I have spare boats and rooms so come sailing in Laser heaven!!
 

chtripp

New Member
If they raise the charter fees that high, it will make sense to fill a container with Lasers and ship them to and back from Australia. We do the same thing all the time for the 505 Worlds. You can get a container for $3000 one way and fit at least 15 to 18 Lasers in them. I would hope that the manufacturers can keep the charter fees at a sensible price since it is much more convenient. Otherwise participation from other countries will be affected. Congratulations on a Great Worlds Colin!! Chuck
 

torrid

Just sailing
If they raise the charter fees that high, it will make sense to fill a container with Lasers and ship them to and back from Australia. We do the same thing all the time for the 505 Worlds. You can get a container for $3000 one way and fit at least 15 to 18 Lasers in them. I would hope that the manufacturers can keep the charter fees at a sensible price since it is much more convenient. Otherwise participation from other countries will be affected. Congratulations on a Great Worlds Colin!! Chuck
But what about clearing customs? I thought I read someone tried this once and ran into issues.
 

SFBayLaser

Member
Not an issue as long as what goes in matches what goes out. It is all just Sports Equipment.
Right, you may be remembering the seized container a few years back. That was an issue where boats had been purchased in one builder's region and were being imported into another builder's region. The claim was that at least some of the boats were being imported for sale after the fact, which is a trademark violation.

This gets complicated quickly and I'm invariably not going to state this 100% correctly, but, basically, if you go to, say, Japan to sail in a regatta and you buy a boat there, then you can import it back home for your personal use (that's how we see Australian boats here in North America). But if someone you know goes to, say, Australia and buys some boats, brings them home and then tries to sell you one then there is a trademark violation and LP could (and would) come after you. Just as I'm sure PSA would do the same if people in Australia did the same with boats not built in Australia.
 

torrid

Just sailing
List them as "Kirby Dinghies" in the shipping paperwork, strip off all the starburst logos, and I guess you should be set.
 

AlanD

Former ISAF Laser Measurer
I can't remember the term any more, but there is a way the temporary importation, it's used a lot for trade shows.
 

TonyB

Member
Hi Oztayls, the dates on the Laser Downunder site for the Aus Masters Nationals are out of date - May was the old plan before the Worlds moved to Brisbane.

The Nationals are definitely on at RQ in early March. Not sure if the 5th to the 8th is the final decision, but it should be close to that. I'm hoping it moves a couple of days earlier so we have time to recover before the Worlds!
 

oztayls

Member
Hi Oztayls, the dates on the Laser Downunder site for the Aus Masters Nationals are out of date - May was the old plan before the Worlds moved to Brisbane.

The Nationals are definitely on at RQ in early March. Not sure if the 5th to the 8th is the final decision, but it should be close to that. I'm hoping it moves a couple of days earlier so we have time to recover before the Worlds!
I hear the dates have changed slightly for the Aus Masters Nationals. 05/03/2012 – 07/03/2012 (Day1: 2 races, Day 2: 3 races, Day 3: 2 races) Not sure if 3 races in a day is all that wonderful, but you'll have 3 rest days before the Worlds.
 

redstar

New Member
Is it just me or is this getting ridiculous? Four months until the Masters Worlds and no Notice of Race, no entry form, no web site with any real information.

If this doesn't start moving quickly the delays are going to have a serious impact on entry numbers and the quality of the regatta. We need to be booking flights, accommodation, time off work, but have very little info to go on.

Time is running out to save this regatta.
 

Tillerman

Member
Could it be that the delay in opening up entries for the Masters Worlds is, in some way, linked to the ongoing dispute between Global Sailing, LaserPerformance Europe and Bruce Kirby about design rights, and the ILCA's current attempt to change the fundamental rule in a way that might impact this dispute? Just wondering...
 

wtm

New Member
Can someone advise what would normally be expected for wind in the Race Area in March
Looks like more the 20 knots would be unusual?
Trying to decide on Radial vs Standard Rig
 

TonyB

Member
20 knots plus is quite possible. Typically in March high pressure systems move across the bottom of Australia pushing a ridge up the Queensland coast with south easterly breezes the result, fading into lighter easterlies as the high moves into the Tasman Sea. The south easterlies vary in strength and duration depending on the size and speed of the high, but normally come through at at least 15-20, with 30 knots generally the upper limit.

It's not uncommon for a big high to stay almost stationary for a week, delivering fresh to strong breezes for the duration. More common though is for two or three days of 15-20 knots SE fading into a 10 knot easterly for a couple more days until the next high moves in.

If we're not in a south easterly cycle, light to moderate thermal north easterlies are the other possibility. By March the probability of these exceeding 15 knots is fairly low. Less than 10 is also pretty rare unless they race us in the morning.
 

Matt

New Member
I asked ILCA regarding notice of race, place allocation two weeks ago:

Dates unlikely to change (9th until 17th March)
Country allocation this week
Application should open on 1st December


Anyway late for organizing everything because confirmation of place will be in January I assume but at least the entry limit is 350 - should be enough .....
 
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