2008 olympics

not that they will have any wind to race in

IMHO they need to stage the sailing event somewhere else
 
ye, they should race down here in aus, where there is wind, the place they are sailing at has an average wind speed of 8 knots, this includes hurricanes & those kinda storms.
ohh & nick moloney on skandia (he is aussie) is coming 6th in the vendee globe YEA.
 
not to forget Ellen Macarthur leaving in a few days for non stop round the world solo multi-hull :p
 
With Laser being the boat of choice for women now it is another reason for Vanguard to screw us further with parts costs and monopoly tactics
 
Steven: My PSE-Laser is from 1977 and if I would sell it on Ebay in next spring, it would bring me more than 1000 Euro´s. I remember to that time 1977, my sailing-club at that time bought two Lasers (Classic Version) and each one costed about 2500 to 3000 German Mark (translated into Euro: 1300 to 1600, translated into CDN-$: 2000 to 2400, or in US-$: 1700 to 2000, or in AUS-$: 2100-2600). What costs a new Laser1-Classic from PSE here in the moment?: 5390 Euro. (Compare this to a new Vanguard Laser...)
But we should not forget to see the cost to sail/race a Finn or Europe - they are really horrible expensive sailing-dinghies, compared to the Laser-XD-Race.
I think, although the Europe-class, like the FD-class, the Dragon-class or the Soling-class (and not to forget the mistral-surfing-class) gone away from Olympic-games, they don´t die out. They are also very good alive without the Games.
See, Europe is a very active Sailing Class and a wonderful boat. In Germany we have more than 500 male and female members in that Sailing-class. How many sailors sail Europe in Australia? 5? Or in Canada? 50?
How much support get´s a female pro-Europe-sailor in Australia from their national sailing class, compared to the German Europe-Ladies? How many in Canada? I think, it was more than fairplay to change something in that for the normal Sailor unreacable-far-away-Galaxy called Proffessional(&payed)-sailing-at-Olympic-Games.
For me there is no doubt, if I had 40 cm less in lenght and 30 kg less in wight, in spring there would be one more 1977 PSE-Laser at Ebay to sell and one more grandfathered Europe (in sufficient shape enough for recreational sailing) more sold, guess to who....
And there is another thing to say to Quingdao-Olympic-Sailing-Games: The Germans had to learn bitter with the Transrapid-highvelocitytrain in Shanghai, that the tough Chineese-peolpe not only want the product, they want the plans of the product. So maybe (like the Russians in the 80´ties) they have already made some (illegal) molds for a cheap-WalMart-Laserhull, who knows..... ;)
Good preparing for Quingdao´s-2008 & Cheers
LooserLu
 
LooserLu said:
...............But we should not forget to see the cost to sail/race a Finn or Europe - they are really horrible expensive sailing-dinghies, compared to the Laser-XD-Race.....

..............See, Europe is a very active Sailing Class and a wonderful boat. In Germany we have more than 500 male and female members in that Sailing-class. How many sailors sail Europe in Australia? 5? Or in Canada? 50?


What you say is not really true. Maybe a Finn is expensive, but a Europe totally not. For less then 2000 euros you have a very nice Europe with combitrailer, ready to race..
I don't understand why there are still so many Europes in Germany. Even in Holland the Europe class is collapsed. On the big regatta's there are mostly about 10 Europes.......
I also have the problem that the Laser is too expensive here, so I will buy one in the UK, much cheaper, really. Mostly it's a difference of 1000 euros....
 
emilebr said:
I also have the problem that the Laser is too expensive here, so I will buy one in the UK, much cheaper, really. Mostly it's a difference of 1000 euros....

Are you going to sail it over?
 
emilebr said:
What you say is not really true. Maybe a Finn is expensive, but a Europe totally not. For less then 2000 euros you have a very nice Europe with combitrailer, ready to race..
I don't understand why there are still so many Europes in Germany. Even in Holland the Europe class is collapsed. On the big regatta's there are mostly about 10 Europes.......
I also have the problem that the Laser is too expensive here, so I will buy one in the UK, much cheaper, really. Mostly it's a difference of 1000 euros....
Emile, in this point of my discussion I talked about NEW boats. A new Laser-Classic costs at my next main-Laser-trader in Duisburg 5390 Euro. At this merchandizer, you also can order a NEW Europe, f.e. from the builder "Winner" (Modell "Athen"). I quick oversumed for Hull, Carbon-Rigg, Regatta-Sail, Carbon-rudder, Harken-regatta-hardware, Measurement-papers etc... about 8400 Euro and you have to construct all regatta-goodies yourself to the boat. If the Laserstore does it, you have to pay for it (Maybe 2 days= 16 h, 1 h for 50 Euro or so, then you pay for this raceable NEW Europe 9200 Euro).
The NEW Laser-I-Race-XD, out-of-the-box ready to race, costs at this Laserstore 6260 Euro in the moment. Emile, do you really want to tell me a NEW Europe ready to race "is totally not expensive"? I don´t understand what you mean in this point you are saying, sorry.

Emile, this Laserstore sells also some Nice-price-Lasers that never have seen the water but only the areas of some Boatexhibitions. I have seen them and also your offer at the Dutch-Laserclass-website. If someone buy your Laser for that you want to have (which is a good offer I say), you "only" have to put about 1900 Euros to this money and you can get one of this Boatexhibition-Laser-Classic-boats. Add your old XD-Accessoirs / your other racing stuff to it, to make a racer out of it. Think about it, Emile.

That the Dutch-Europe-Scene broke down, I cannot undertand. You know, for the Dutch, the Germans act strange sometimes, Emile, however... But tell me, why are so much MALE German sailors sail Europe, please? I think the Germans love to sail this nice dinghy, that separated from the famous Moth-Class in the Sixties of the last century.

@ Gerard
I have deep respect to Dutch sailors. Most of them I know are all really tough and fearless on the water. But to sail the Laser over The-Channel, that has lots of traffic and "Tide"? A very dangerous adventure, I would like to say. But Emile is right, when he tells us, that the used-Laser market has much lower prices then on the continent. But there are also duty costs to pay at the borders, although there is a European trading-treaty (The Contract of Schengen).

@ Steven
At Nov 15th 2004 my local Laserstore here put up the prices for a Laser some %, although the Euro rises and rises...:(
Perhaps a good point for Scott to open a Post-box-"The Boathouse-European-Store" in Luxemburg and start offer online some NEW&cheaper-US-Vanguard-Laser´s to us...;))

Ciao
Looserlu
 
LooserLu said:
@ Gerard
I have deep respect to Dutch sailors. Most of them I know are all really tough and fearless on the water. But to sail the Laser over The-Channel, that has lots of traffic and "Tide"? A very dangerous adventure, I would like to say.

I was just kidding :)
I like what you say about Dutch sailors, though! :D
 
LooserLu said:
Perhaps a good point for Scott to open a Post-box-"The Boathouse-European-Store" in Luxemburg and start offer online some NEW&cheaper-US-Vanguard-Laser´s to us...;)) Ciao Looserlu

Good thought but probably by the time you figure in VAT, transport costs and exchange rate you'd be around $8,000 euros.. :p
 
"See, Europe is a very active Sailing Class and a wonderful boat.

For me there is no doubt, if I had 40 cm less in lenght and 30 kg less in wight, in spring there would be one more 1977 PSE-Laser at Ebay to sell and one more grandfathered Europe (in sufficient shape enough for recreational sailing) more sold, guess to who...."


Check it out. http://www.europedinghy.org/gear/forsale.htm
There are plenty of Europes for sale right now in the US. Some of them are nearly new boats being sold by Olympic contenders--I suppose so they can buy Laser Radials. I bought an older boat for that recreational sailing and will pick it up in a few weeks. :D Of course, I'm keeping my nearly new Laser. I'm just getting the knack of sailing it!

Janet
 
Hi all,
@Gerard
I expected that you were making a joke ;), but, who knows, maybe there are really sailors that believe, it is a "nice" tip to sail from France to England with a Laser.... Maybe a crazy German from NRW (;)) that want to save his money with not travelling via expensive Eurotunnel or ferry to Dover and then to Portsmouth by bus to Rooster-Sailing-Store ....
Why not making a lovely vacancy at Le Havre and take a sunny day with force 4 and make the 90 sm to Rooster...and then suddenly the heavy stream of the tide there starts during the trip and this crazy sailor will find himself dead at Fastnet-Rock... some days later (This last is of course also all a joke). But there were really some people that are so crazy, to swim through the Channel.

@ Scott / The Boathouse
All depends on the quantity I think. One Sea-Container full of Cheap-US$-Laser-stuff has lower shipping cost than only a few pieces. But you are right in the point of Duty which is very expensive. That was the reason to say to make post-box-company in Luxemburg. A much cooler way would be to use the contact to the US-Army. They have several Bases here (Frankfurt for example). That Armybases are US-Ground so no bordertax to pay... ;)
But I think the "Mafia of the Out-of-the-box-boatbuilder-CEO´S" would find ways to stop that trading aft a short while...
But, what I really miss: A Laserstore in Manhattan - to buy some North-sails for 490 US$ during a short-vacation there and send them to myself in GER via DHL/UPS for selling them at Germany for 420 Euro. All (trader in NY, me, customer in GER) would make their profit (ok, 1 or 2 not: "Chip & Co", haha.....:D).

@ Janet/Merrily
Isn´t this a normal process that some of the pro´s sell their stuff aft end of the season, also at Europe-class? Here also some pro´s sell their Laser-stuff now, although that things seems for me like new. The pro´s I know always spend their whole money (often from the sponsors) for quite new and crispy goodies (like sails, spars, hull, blades of rudders/centreboards) for the next season. Best time for me as recreational-Laserite and probably you to make some good deals with them :)

Ciao
LooserLu
 
LooserLu said:
you "only" have to put about 1900 Euros to this money and you can get one of this Boatexhibition-Laser-Classic-boats.

I'm just a 17-years old student, so I don't have 1900 euro's :(

I didn't know a new Europe was that expensive. Maybe secondhand boats are cheap, because nobody wants to sail a europe here

Gerard said:
Are you goint to sail it over?

Yesterday I made an appointment with someone to sail with some other lasersailors from France to England..... With support of boats of the national sailing association and with sponsors.... It's not impossible, because I know someone who went just with one boat (Wayferer, 4.80 metres), and not with a supporting boat, From England to Holland. That's really a big distance....

Happy for me there are some special offers now from Ferry-companies, so my new laser is growing..... :)
 

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