1985 Laser, Worth the time?

fogel1497

New Member
I've been sailing lasers (not my own) for about 3 years now. I've recently come across a 1985 laser, that is in absolutly horrendous condition. However after a couple hours of light power washing, i was able to find that underneath a quarter inch thick mud shell was actually a nice looking baot. Of course it requires a lot more work though. I was wondering if their is something I could put on the bottom of the hull to reduce skin firction, as their is a rather large amount of scratches on it, and if it would be worth my time to do it.
 
fogel1497 said:
I've been sailing lasers (not my own) for about 3 years now. I've recently come across a 1985 laser, that is in absolutly horrendous condition. However after a couple hours of light power washing, i was able to find that underneath a quarter inch thick mud shell was actually a nice looking baot. Of course it requires a lot more work though. I was wondering if their is something I could put on the bottom of the hull to reduce skin firction, as their is a rather large amount of scratches on it, and if it would be worth my time to do it.

I'd wet sand the bottom w/300 grit paper to see how many scratches come out. Then fill the rest with gelcoat and resand. Some folks might recommend marine tex, but it does not sand out to as smooth a finish as an actual gelcoat repair.
 
Okay thanks, from what I understand i just buy a gelcoat that matches the colour of my hull and apply right? I kind of wanted to change the colour of my hull though, its kind of a strange yellow colour (even clean it looks ugly), and i've always preffered a nice white coat. Does that just mean I should buy a white gelcoat and apply it over the entire area of the hull?

Also, does such an older boat put me at a reasonable disadvantage to other racers? In the near future I will probably be racing at the Cedar Point Yacht Club considering thats only about 10-20 minutes from my house.
 
Re-gelcoating a bottom is a huge job that requires an experienced hand and lots of time to do properly. I'm in the boat repair business and I wouldn't reccomend it.

Wet sand the bottom with 400, then 600 and if you're up for it 800. Make sure you wear gloves. Don't worry too much about the scratches. At this point in the game, they are not important, unless they are deep and into the fibreglass bat. Seal the deep ones with resin and if you wish, gelcoat.

Work on your boat handling and tactics. In the long run they are much more important than a smooth bottom. Get a new sail or upgrade the rigging.The fastest Laser in our fleet has quite a few scratches on its bottom and yet it regularily finishes at the front of the fleet because its skipper knows what he is doing.
 
With a 1985 Laser the other things you need to be concerned about are:

1 The integrity of the mast step.

2 Depending how the boat was stored the integrity of the hull to deck join.

I have had experiance with both of these and they are not fun repairs. If the price is good then perhaps its worth the risk. If I had it to do over I would have spent the money on a newer boat and more time on the water instead of in the garage.

Just my 2 cents (in canadian money at that), for what its worth.
 
I've got a very scratched 52,000 series - the oldest boat at regattas by 90,000 boats or so.

In conditions where scratches should really hurt (downwind), it's as fast as the three recent world Masters champs who race here. It's actually faster (compared to them) than the brand-new boat I had when I was serious, because my downwind technique has improved. I can't believe it but it's true. Snipeguy is dead right IMHO.

Just my 3 cents (inflation).
 
My first laser was an older model (1982) same age as myself, and she needed alot of work, put as a project boat I learned to replace a mast step, autobailer, redid the deck/hull joint w/ VC waterthight epoxy, gelcoat work, and oh yeah, the fiberglass repair to the deck when the Caltilina 30 I was stored under lost it's bow anchor through my stbd side midships...that was fun...

In my homble opinion, ANY boat is worth the time, but then again I'm crazy like that. If your looking for a boat with little maintenance, and few worries, your not going to want an older boat, but if you wanna learn how to do repairs by trial and error, while improving your sailing skill, get an old boat, same some $$ and upgrade to a niceer boat when you can afford to.

just my 1 cent (USD) (Congress doesn't pay us enough to fight and die for our country)
 
fogel1497,
control at the base of the maststep, if there is already installed a stainless steel disc. You can control that with an instrument (a cheap one from the next home depot) for seaching electrical-cables in walls, from outside of the hull at the "keel". If there, is none you need one or it possible, that the mast, sometimes in future, destroys the maststep. That disc is available for you at the local Laser-dealer or "The Boathouse"-Scott or the sponsor of this forum (WestCoast), I guess.
LooserLu

P.S.: An old Laser-1-boat can be fast, but the fast Laser-boats often are not old....
Now, since being owner of 2 Laser-1 in the moment (since last weekend), I can prove some nice things between a Laser built in 1978 and a Laser built in 2000.... ;0)
 
I have a '76 laser that's as fast as any. Here's what you want to look at:
Hull scratches-
As long as they are parallel to the flow of water, not perpendicular, it doesn't matter. However, if any go into the fiberglass, those need repairing (resin/gelcoat). As for the color, i agree, don't try and change it. It'd probably be at least a couple hundred dollars just to get ahold of enough gelcoat to cover the bottom. if you do need to do a repair though, you can buy a small tube of gelcoat with like 5 different colors, and mix those. It's alot cheaper than buying the official laser color.
Mast step-
Do a forum search for mast step. take a pic with a camera, then compare it to other pics in the forum. If it's bad, just use resin or fiberglass to reinforce it. Also, add a steel plate to the bottom to prevent wear (this is a laser part you can buy.)
Weight-
The BIGGEST thing you can do to make the boat go fast, even before the scratches, is to make sure your hull isn't heavy. Like i said, i have a '76, and it's faster than my friends' new boats because i dry it out. Weigh the boat, it should be 130-135lbs. if it's around there, it'll be competititve.
Hull-
Make sure the hull is watertight, for reason above. fiberglass can soak up alot of water.

Lastly, buy a relatively new sail and you should be good to go!
 
snipeguy said:
Re-gelcoating a bottom is a huge job that requires an experienced hand and lots of time to do properly. I'm in the boat repair business and I wouldn't reccomend it.

Wet sand the bottom with 400, then 600 and if you're up for it 800. Make sure you wear gloves. Don't worry too much about the scratches. At this point in the game, they are not important, unless they are deep and into the fibreglass bat. Seal the deep ones with resin and if you wish, gelcoat.

Work on your boat handling and tactics. In the long run they are much more important than a smooth bottom. Get a new sail or upgrade the rigging.The fastest Laser in our fleet has quite a few scratches on its bottom and yet it regularily finishes at the front of the fleet because its skipper knows what he is doing.



This is the answer your looking for. Unless you know what your doing stay away from the gelcoat process.... if not done right you'll ruin the boat.

There are two theory's of paraclestic, (sp?), drag; one being making your hull slippery with teflon polish and the other wet sanding with a 600 and above grit paper alowing the water to be trapped in the micro grooves actually becoming a re-agent... water slipping on water is faster that water over teflon. Or so the theory goes.


-K
 
Something no one has mentioned. You should live with the dull yellow color of your boat. Paint does have wieght associated with it, (that's why most AC boats are carbon black). Get a gelcoat kit from your local west marine, (or wherever) and there will be different color pigments with the resin paste to allow you to get a decent color match when you patch the bad spots. Also, when you make the patch, make sure you remove access gelcoat and cover the patch with wax paper and tape it down to cure. This will make the patch smoother and reduce sanding time/effort.
 
Fogel1497,

I came across the same dilemma. I followed Fred Scroth's "recipe" transcribed below and my old boat looks better than new after about 12 hours of work. Thank you Fred!

Good luck!

Carlos

fogel1497 said:
I've been sailing lasers (not my own) for about 3 years now. I've recently come across a 1985 laser, that is in absolutly horrendous condition. However after a couple hours of light power washing, i was able to find that underneath a quarter inch thick mud shell was actually a nice looking baot. Of course it requires a lot more work though. I was wondering if their is something I could put on the bottom of the hull to reduce skin firction, as their is a rather large amount of scratches on it, and if it would be worth my time to do it.


To: laser (at) laser.org
Subject: bottom refinishing
From: Keeldude (at) aol.com
Date: Thu, 6 Aug 1998 17:36:06 EDT
Reply-To: Keeldude (at) aol.com
Sender: owner-laser (at) www.laser.org

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

maybe somebody can put this on a FAQ page or something. I sure do not know
how. Good luck if you use it.

please send feedback if you do and i will rewrite some

fred

How To Make Your Bottom Pretty
written by Fred Schroth and edited by half of the people he knows

After my humbling experiences in recent attempts at racing sailboats, I have
decided to write about the only subject in which I remain at the front of the
fleet. If you carefully follow the directions put forth in this article, you
can have the nicest bottom in your fleet.

First, you must acquire the proper attitude about taking care of your boat.
If you still pull your boat up on a dock without first checking for nails,
screws and gravel, don't even bother reading this article. Your Laser only
has about enough gelcoat for two bottom rescue jobs. Don't do the first one
until you are ready to do whatever it takes to keep from scratching it again.
Save the second for the shine that sells the worn out hull to the next owner.
There is nothing wrong with selling your worn out boat when you buy a new one,
but at least save the new guy a pretty hull.

MATERIALS AND EQUIPMENT:

1. a place to work for about 12 hours that can be washed down with water
afterwards
2. gelcoat to match your hull and catalyst
3. acetone
4. buffing compound (Dupont 101, Acme 50, 3M Super Heavy Duty, or a similar
grit)
5. a sharp knife
6. cardboard cut in a bout 10" x 10" squares
7. stir sticks (popsicle sticks)
8. a bucket and water
9. 12 chunks of terry cloth (cut up old bath towels into 8 chunks each)
10. wet-sand paper in 320, 400, 500, 600, 800, 1000, and 1500 grits. If
your scratches are particularly large or numerous you may also want 180 and
240 grit papers. For whichever grit you use first you will need about 5
sheets. For the other grits you will need about 1 sheet each.
11. Gel Gloss or TR 500
12. Maguires Deep Crystal paste wax
13. a squeegee ( I use a Thalco laminators squeegee but a good window
squeegee will do the job)
14. a pencil
15. cleansers (Comet or Ajax)
16. sanding blocks (I use a 9" block from an automotive paint supplier)

DIRECTIONS:

The boat needs to be supported upside down at a height where you can stand
over it for hours and hours and hours. You don't want to damage the boat or
your back.

1) Read all of these directions before you do anything to your boat. If you
don't understand the directions, or if you have any trouble making the various
steps come out correctly, take your boat to a professional and get it done
right.

2) Wash the boat with a good cleanser and then clean it again with acetone.

3) Every scratch that you can feel will need to be filled. Use a sharp knife
and lightly re-gouge the scratches. Your scraping should create dust, not
chunks. You must have a freshly roughened surface so your repairs can adhere
to the grooves.

4) Blow away the dust and wash the boat again with acetone. Make sure that
you have removed every last particle . If your repairs are made over a dirty
surface the repairs will stick to the dirt but not to your boat.

5) Test the gelcoat to make sure it doesn't set up too fast or too slowly by
mixing a small amount on your cardboard. Dribble a half dollar size disk of
gelcoat off a stir stick. Then dribble a pea sized amount of catalyst into
the center of the gelcoat and mix it as well as you can. Scrape, wipe, smear
and swirl that puddle of material until you are sure that it is mixed. Play
with the stuff for 15 minutes to make sure that it isn't becoming hard too
fast--if it sets up too fast you won't have time to apply it to the boat.
Catalyzed gel coat can get really hot. Set the cardboard down somewhere where
it can't start a fire if it ignites. Go away for an hour. When you get back
the surface of the puddle should be sticky but the material underneath should
have hardened. To see if it is hard, fold the cardboard. The puddle should
break. If your test batch matches this description, you have learned how to
mix gelcoat. If the gelcoat didn't cure, start with a new batch and either
add more catalyst or find a warmer place to do your work.

6) Once you have learned to mix the gelcoat, mix a fresh batch. Using your
stir stick or an artists brush, paint each of the scratches. Just try to fill
the gouges level with the boat surface. This may take a couple of passes
between which you need to go away for a soda or a beer depending on your age
and preference. Do not wait more than a couple of hours, period.

7) After you are convinced that all the scratches are filled, put on one more
coat. This last coat can be mixed with a little extra catalyst to hurry along
the process. Gelcoat does not fully cure when it is exposed to moisture in
the air, so this last coat is to help cure the sticky part of the previous
layer. This is a good place to stop for the night to allow the gelcoat to
harden.

8) Fold one of your terry cloth pieces and soak it with acetone. (It's nice
if your terry cloth is a contrasting color to the hull.) Wipe off the part of
your gelcoat that will soak easily free. Keep wiping until the towel shows no
more color coming off. If you have lots of scratches this may take a couple
of towels. You will also need a fresh towel to wash the sticky stuff off your
hands.

9) It is time to use sandpaper. Sandpaper can follow the contour or the
surface and remove the softest part, or it can ride gently over the surface,
trimming off only the high spots. YOU MUST FOLLOW THESE RULES:

Use Sharp Sandpaper!
Do Not Press Down Hard!

10) It is time to sand off the extra gelcoat. Use sharp sandpaper. Do not
press down hard. Ideally, you will use the finest grit that your patience
will allow and a wood block. You will sand away the excess gelcoat without
ever touching the adjacent pristine surface of your boat. I usually
accomplish this task with as tiny a wood block as I can hold and a lot of
brand new sandpaper. The sandpaper should not touch anything other than your
repair until the excess is almost totally removed. Be patient. Use sharp
paper. Do not press down hard. I recommend 320 or 240 for this step. Stop
often and look at how you are doing. Remember that you do not want to sand
anything except the stuff sticking out above the scratch. Occasionally you
should use your squeegee to dry the work area. Stop. Look and feel how you
are doing.

Let me digress a moment here. What I just described can be more easily
accomplished using dry sandpaper. I use the white or gold type of paper.
However, if you choose to sand dry you will be creating a lot of dust and
adequate protection is necessary. You will need a protective mask and the
work area will be coated by your dust. The advantage of dry sanding is that
you can wipe away the dust and see exactly where you have sanded.

11) When all the repairs are flat and level with the hull surface it is time
to begin working on the whole hull. Do not begin sanding the whole hull until
you have finished sanding all the individual scratches. You need the shiny
surface of the hull as a reference until the heavy sanding is finished so that
you don't make the surface wavy.

Now it's time to get all the ripples off the entire hull. As long as you can
smell styrene inside your boat the plastic is shrinking, becoming more
crystalline and just plain getting uglier. You want to remove all the tiny
ripples that your boat has developed as the plastic has continued to cure
since it left the production mold. Remember that you are not attempting nor
are you allowed to change the shape of your boat. This is a cosmetic repair,
not a speed enhancement.

I usually start the whole hull job with 320 paper. Using a soft rubber
block, I sand at 45 degrees to the centerline until the entire hull is a
consistent, dull finish with all of the sanding scratches parallel. The
reason to keep all of the scratches parallel is so that when you switch to
another grade of sandpaper, you can sand in a different direction and know
when you have removed all of the scratches from the previous grade.

It's graffiti time. Use a pencil to make marks all over your hull. When
Eric Faust does this part he creates cartoons and other nonsense, but lazy
guys like me just scribble. The object is to make enough pencil marks so that
it is easy to tell where you have and have not already sanded. Turn your
sanding to the other 45 degree angle and shift up to your next finer grade of
paper. Sand away all the pencil marks and then inspect your work. All the
sanding scratches should run in the new direction. In areas where the old
scratches still show, pencil and sand again.

Repeat the penciling and sanding with 400, 500, 600, 800, 1000, 1200 and 1500
grit papers. You can skip grits or stop at a heavier grit but your boat will
not be as shiny if you don't use the whole series. To make your bottom
heavenly, you have to sand the hell out of it.

12) Now, smear buffing compound all over the hull and with one of your clean
pieces of terry cloth, rub it until you are sick of rubbing. Rubbing
compounds work a lot like sink cleansers--the more you stroke the surface the
better the final appearance.

13) Using water and a clean rag, rinse off the remaining compound.

14) Apply Gel Gloss according to the directions on the can. If you are not
paranoid about the possible loss of boat speed you may also want to wax your
boat. When you go to a really important event in fresh water, you may wish to
remove the wax with a strong detergent. I think that a hull coated with Gel
Gloss is faster than a good clean hull in brackish water. I don't like to
have crud stick to my hull--I think it probably slows my boat down. When
sailing in Lake Pontchartrain a J-24 coated with Gel Gloss will remain clean
for a week while boats without Gel Gloss acquire a nasty yellow coating. Make
your own decision.

A final note: the gelcoat on your hull is only thick enough to endure this
process a couple of times. If you aren't sure that you will take care of your
boat starting immediately, do not waste the repair opportunity now.

Next time you are approaching the starting line you can strike fear into the
competition by having your boat glare at the other sailors.


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