Beat up used Sunfish vs. Newport Panther - is it worth it?

In either the Sunfish or the Minifish it is socially acceptable to pad the bottom and back of the cockpit with life jackets, dry packs, etc. The you sit your butt down the the cockpit, with your legs on the fore deck, and just lounge yourself across the water as if you were at home in your recliner. You could probably do that in a Laser, but then all of the other Laser sailors will ostracize you forever. That's kind of me just trying to be funny, but it's also kind of true. A Laser jockey wouldn't be caught dead just relaxing while sailing. Altho, to be honest, trying to relax in a Laser probably isn't a smart thing to do!
Both 'Fishes can handle a fair amount of weight in dry bags attached to the mast. Certainly enough for cruising and camping for a couple of days. Check out the camping topics on this site.

Wow, good to know!! I wouldn't have thought to check that. Okay, so I could get a trailer hitch, which would eliminate the weight restriction. But then I would have to buy a trailer in addition to the hitch, which adds to my expenses so that might be more for the future. I have thought about going to visit the Panther with a scale but I'm not sure how you would actually weigh it.. could you just bring a standard people-bathroom-scale and balance the hull on it's edge?

I'm still torn between that and the Minifish! I wouldn't say sailing with a partner is a must, just a big plus. The thought of ripping around on a tiny but fast minifish sounds great provided it isn't that uncomfortable for my legs. But at the same time the added cockpit room of the Panther means I could bring a small bag of snacks, water etc. and go on longer voyages around Oneida Lake for example, and take a break and lounge quasi-comfortably . I'm a bit stressed because when I go to the estate sale with the Minifish I feel like I'll have to decide on the spot if I want it or not, or risk someone else snatching it up. I guess I'll have to wait and see how much they're asking.

It seems that if we ignore the weight and cartopping troubles, the Panther might be more what I'm looking for. But then the Minifish is likely a more quality boat, and if I have the opportunity to buy one in great shape for a bargain it would seem foolish to pass that up and go with an imitation brand instead...

Can you tell that I'm bad at making decisions? Again, thank you all for your input. I've been refreshing this page every 10 minutes today!
 
I searched CL for 'minifish' and as luck would have it one is being sold at an estate sale literally 5 minutes from my house this Friday. The price isn't listed, and only one photo was included that doesn't reveal much of the condition, but it looks pretty shiny and appears to come with a sweet old-school dolly. I can't tell if there are ropes on the deck or enormous cracks. More importantly the photo does not show a rudder, daggerboard, sail, mast etc., just a hull. Seaotter5 mentioned most of the parts are the same Marketplace, I wouldn't have thought to check there. Not many Sunfish near me but there are tons of amazing deals on big 15'+ sized sailboats! Noted for the future :)
Bring CASH! :cool:
 
In either the Sunfish or the Minifish it is socially acceptable to pad the bottom and back of the cockpit with life jackets, dry packs, etc. The you sit your butt down the the cockpit, with your legs on the fore deck, and just lounge yourself across the water as if you were at home in your recliner. You could probably do that in a Laser, but then all of the other Laser sailors will ostracize you forever. That's kind of me just trying to be funny, but it's also kind of true. A Laser jockey wouldn't be caught dead just relaxing while sailing. Altho, to be honest, trying to relax in a Laser probably isn't a smart thing to do!
Both 'Fishes can handle a fair amount of weight in dry bags attached to the mast. Certainly enough for cruising and camping for a couple of days. Check out the camping topics on this site.

Thanks for the advice! That'll come in handy no matter which boat I end up in.
 
Another thought is that you don't necessarily have to buy a boat trailer. If you could use a small flat bed trailer for other things, or find one cheaper, you could always install some padding to cradle the boat and have a multi-use item.

That's really smart, I'll have to remember that when I inevitably cave and get a trailer hitch! It definitely is more appealing if it would serve other purposes.
 
Snarks are not great boats. Really, they aren't even good ones. But they come under the "good enough" category. They are easy to transport, easy to sail, easy to store.
Would I buy a new one? No. Emphatically No. New they are (IMHO) extremely over priced. But used? At a dirt low price? Sure. I have sailed one before, and it was fun. Especially on a reach.
Just a couple of other options to think about.

OK. I have to respond in defense of the lowly Sea Snark! Before my Sunfishes, before my JetWind... my first sailboat at 12 years of age was a used $50 styrofoam Sea Snark. I decided to fiberglass it, which required special resin that wouldn't dissolve the styrofoam. The result was a battleship. Not only could it take any abuse, it would never sink (thus giving my mom enough confidence to let me go sailing after only reading books on how it was done). Here is a photo of the rest of my family helping me to fiberglass the Snark and then another photo of me and my brother 'breaking a plane' on that little boat in Lake Howard, Winter Haven, FL. Sometimes, on hot days, we'd flip it just to fill it with water and sail around in our floating bathtub. Ha. OK, SeaOtter5, the Snark is no speed demon, but I love it just the same.

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Awesome photos, Weston!!! I love the fact that you actually glassed the Snark hull... after doing that, you were probably in a small select club of Snark owners, LOL. And that pic of youngsters sailing the Snark, well, that's what it's all about right there... :cool:
 
Hey Sasha,
Oh, definitely get the Panther. There are a lot of fun boats that aren't "pedigreed", I saw a Sunfish sorta clone that had a much bigger cockpit (a Mach III) and it looked much more comfortable than my Sunfish. You're a big guy, you need the room for your knees! And it's always more fun to go sailing with someone else.

There are ways to cartop, I used to carry a Hobie Hawk sailboat on the roof rack of my VW Camper. Which was WAY up there, and I'm only 5-9 (on a good day). I stuck a 5' piece of pipe inside the (round) Yakima roof rack, so it stuck out about 3', lifted the bow onto that, lifted the stern up, and on my tippy toes, slid it onto the roof rack. But I really like trailers. It's almost a fetish with me...:D

And this stuff about "your car isn't recommended for towing"...my last 4 cars weren't "recommended for towing" and I had a hitch on all of them. The funny thing is, in Europe and Japan, the exact same cars ARE rated for towing. I currently have a Buick Regal TourX, which is an Opel Insignia in the rest of the world...in the USA, no towing...but everywhere else, 1500#.
My son has a Impreza hatchback, and it tows just fine. Personally, I prefer a manual transmission for towing, they don't overheat and provide better engine braking downhill.
 
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Fremont, I'm with you, I think the OP should bag that Panther... I mean seriously, at that price? I would've already bought it, even if the hull needed a little work, but I'm also comfortable with glasswork and other repairs. I just get the vibe that this Panther hasn't seen that much use, so the hull should be in pretty good condition, and one can always upgrade rigging & hardware; the hull, spars & sail don't look too bad with this Panther. Ah, well, it's not my call, though I wish the boat were in my neighborhood, I'd snap her up and make modifications to her if necessary, just to beef up the boat so she could handle Category 5 hurricanes, LOL. :eek:

Meh, guess we'll find out what happens, it's not like the suspense is killing me... someone is probably going to get a good deal on that boat. :rolleyes:
 
Googled it, the Panther looks pretty nice.

Oh, and this is from this forum, last year.



Love those 70's pictures. I remember growing up then. Good times! And the photo also reminded me just how much I miss my hair!
 
There are ways to cartop, I used to carry a Hobie Hawk sailboat on the roof rack of my VW Camper. Which was WAY up there, and I'm only 5-9 (on a good day). I stuck a 5' piece of pipe inside the (round) Yakima roof rack, so it stuck out about 3', lifted the bow onto that, lifted the stern up, and on my tippy toes, slid it onto the roof rack. But I really like trailers. It's almost a fetish with me...:D

And this stuff about "your car isn't recommended for towing"...my last 4 cars weren't "recommended for towing" and I had a hitch on all of them. The funny thing is, in Europe and Japan, the exact same cars ARE rated for towing. I currently have a Buick Regal TourX, which is an Opel Insignia in the rest of the world...in the USA, no towing...but everywhere else, 1500#.
My son has a Impreza hatchback, and it tows just fine. Personally, I prefer a manual transmission for towing, they don't overheat and provide better engine braking downhill.
You said VW Camper?

I still have one that I flat-towed my BMW convertibles, Morris Minor, and Porsche 914-Sixes. I welded my own hitch and "Universal" tow-bar, which accommodated each car type.

My longest tow was towing a 914/6 to an annual Porsche "Parade" (1991) in Andover, Mass, from Miami, Florida. I was following a buddy's BMW M3, when he suddenly took an exit, and I followed. "Sorry" he said, "but I was out of gas. You actually made that turn OK?"
"Yes", I said, "this bus corners with a Porsche".

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Haha, that's funny... my family had three VW buses that I can remember, an early '60s model with no sliding door, and two later models with the slider. We also had a squareback long ago, for some reason my pop the submarine commander was big on VWs... probably because he had nine kids, LOL. :rolleyes:

Nothin' wrong with a VW bus or camper, especially with a full-length roof rack... just don't expect it to peel out and burn rubber while accelerating faster than a '60s or early '70s muscle car, LOL. :eek:

Some of my favorite memories with the '76 Transporter (bus) we owned: killing the lights and cruising around the Coronado Municipal Golf Course at night, three or four partying fools riding with me, stoned outta their minds and trippin' on the terrain. ;)

And the times we drove around the dirt track which encircled the high school football field or gridiron... lights out once again, and the bus getting sideways around the end zone turns. The track & field coaches and groundskeepers (i.e. chalk markers) must have hated us, LOL. :cool:
 
Awesome photos, Weston!!! I love the fact that you actually glassed the Snark hull... after doing that, you were probably in a small select club of Snark owners, LOL. And that pic of youngsters sailing the Snark, well, that's what it's all about right there... :cool:
LOL, Cactus. Yes, a verrrry small club of Snark owners - a club of uno. It was actually yeeeeears later before I ever met anyone who knew what a Snark was! It was a great, safe way to learn to love sailing before graduating to a Sunfish copycat - the Jetwind/Surfwind.
 
At a two-week lake cottage rental, a "sailboat" came with it. It was a complete and entire Snark, but the hull had broken in half. :(

Looking back at that VW camper, I see my first installation of an inspection port. It's still there—30+ years later!

It was intended to allow my miniature dachshunds an open port to check out the surroundings. (One doggy at a time, that is). The inspection port also accommodated two 2x4x10s for transport. :cool:
 
Another old VW lover here, growing up in the 60’s and 70’s
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with 6 kids in the family we went through two buses and a couple of bugs, too. No heat, not real comfortable, but there’s something about the smell that brings me right back to my childhood (they say it’s the horse hair in the seats!)
I owned this ‘73 Karmann Ghia for about 25 years before finally letting it go. Many great memories and awards won at the VW shows with this sweet ride! I try not to get attached to material things, but I’ll admit it, I kissed it goodbye...
 
That's a sweet Ghia, they're fun to drive but I was always partial to the VW bus... back in our skating days, we could cram half a dozen guys, an equal number of boards, 2 or 3 BMX bikes, and a case or two of cheap beer into the bus, then go spend hours at a skatepark which had shut down. At first, we had to hop the fence, but later some dude in a 4WD truck backed down over a section of the chain-link, and we could simply walk right in and start riding, LOL. Those were some good times... the park was actually more fun to ride after it had closed, and if we showed at 0800 or 0900 we'd often have the park to ourselves for hours. :cool:

But I digress, and I'm with BB here, OP... did you bag the Panther? :rolleyes:
 
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So with 51 replies to this thread, we’ve gotta know! Sasha, did you buy the Minifish or the Panther??
Sorry to keep you all in suspense! I have not done anything yet, I'm still waiting until tomorrow morning when I can go check out the Minifish in person and see what condition it is in and how much they're asking for it, which will help my decision!

I know, the waiting is killing me too.
 
I loved my Ghia. It ended up in various pieces all over the intersection of The 32 and 29 in Howard County, MD. I found the battery about 30 yards away in a ditch. The responding officers couldn't even tell what kind of car it was. I didn't even get a scratch. I am sure that my guardian angel has put in multiple requests for a transfer!
 
I loved my Ghia. It ended up in various pieces all over the intersection of The 32 and 29 in Howard County, MD. I found the battery about 30 yards away in a ditch. The responding officers couldn't even tell what kind of car it was. I didn't even get a scratch. I am sure that my guardian angel has put in multiple requests for a transfer!

I've been through several guardian angels... one quit and the rest had to apply for disability, LOL. ;)
 
I loved my Ghia. It ended up in various pieces all over the intersection of The 32 and 29 in Howard County, MD. I found the battery about 30 yards away in a ditch. The responding officers couldn't even tell what kind of car it was. I didn't even get a scratch. I am sure that my guardian angel has put in multiple requests for a transfer!
Wow, Seaotter, glad you lived to tell the story! Definitely a guardian angel at work!
 
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Another old VW lover here, growing up in the 60’s and 70’s

I owned this ‘73 Karmann Ghia for about 25 years before finally letting it go. Many great memories and awards won at the VW shows with this sweet ride! I try not to get attached to material things, but I’ll admit it, I kissed it goodbye...
I had a '60 Karmann-Ghia for seven years before enlisting in the US Navy. My sister was off at school with a Ford Falcon, but the rest of the family posed with their VWs in our two-car carport!

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Go now... we can't wait. :D :D :D
If it's in good shape, offer only a fraction of its worth. Because?

A yard sale is where "you get rid of stuff".
 
I’d strongly consider a VW square back as a regatta car for the 1960s if we re-live the ‘60s and VW reintroduces it. One thing you’ll want to consider tho is lack of AC, especially if you will be traveling in the south.
 
OK. I have to respond in defense of the lowly Sea Snark! Before my Sunfishes, before my JetWind... my first sailboat at 12 years of age was a used $50 styrofoam Sea Snark. I decided to fiberglass it, which required special resin that wouldn't dissolve the styrofoam. The result was a battleship. Not only could it take any abuse, it would never sink (thus giving my mom enough confidence to let me go sailing after only reading books on how it was done). Here is a photo of the rest of my family helping me to fiberglass the Snark and then another photo of me and my brother 'breaking a plane' on that little boat in Lake Howard, Winter Haven, FL. Sometimes, on hot days, we'd flip it just to fill it with water and sail around in our floating bathtub. Ha. OK, SeaOtter5, the Snark is no speed demon, but I love it just the same.

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I was born in Winter Haven Florida and my Dad sailed his Sunfish on Lake Howard! I also had a Snark for a time and sailed it on Humboldt Bay and Stone Lagoon in northern California near Arcata. Cool photos...
 
Another old VW lover here, growing up in the 60’s and 70’s No heat, not real comfortable, but there’s something about the smell that brings me right back to my childhood (they say it’s the horse hair in the seats!)
"Memory smell". That's actually A Thing! :)

Daily, Google makes sure I'm up on all things "Dachshund". While [waiting] sharing memories of things we associate with Sunfish days, I hesitate to ask--how many of us had Dachshunds?

Only last summer, I discovered my Primary-Physician (of 30 years) had two. Then I went to a Florida Physicians-Assistant, who was wearing Dachshund earrings--so I had to ask. :rolleyes: Sure-enough, she also had two.

(Lifetime, I've had eight!) :eek:
 
"Memory smell". That's actually A Thing! :)

Daily, Google makes sure I'm up on all things "Dachshund". While [waiting] sharing memories of things we associate with Sunfish days, I hesitate to ask--how many of us had Dachshunds?

Only last summer, I discovered my Primary-Physician (of 30 years) had two. Then I went to a Florida Physicians-Assistant, who was wearing Dachshund earrings--so I had to ask. :rolleyes: Sure-enough, she also had two.

(Lifetime, I've had eight!) :eek:
I remember the fiberglass smell of my Dad's first Sunfish. I still like it and will open up the drain plug on my new one and take a long sniff...
 
A Squareback would make a pretty good cartopper... ours was the same green color seen in L&VW's pic. That's a pretty cool photo, I'm thinking the folks at VW would dig it, LOL. :cool:

Of all the VWs, I reckon the Transporter (or Bus) was probably the least glamorous, but it was functional. I often referred to our '76 Transporter as the "Bread Box"---but it had a strong motor and served us well over the years. :rolleyes:

A classmate of mine had a really cool Microbus, the one with all the windows or ports? Those things HAD to eventually leak, but they looked really cool. Another classmate had a Westphalia, and that thing was also pretty hip. ;)

Now, was the Ford Falcon the model with the push-button transmission? If so, then our friend Matt had one in high school, it was a trip to ride in that thing, LOL. I guess Ford was trying to get all futuristic with the push-button number... :confused:
 
So with 51 replies to this thread, we’ve gotta know! Sasha, did you buy the Minifish or the Panther??
The Panther was just reduced to $55.00. Go grab it, Sasha!

And one more blast from the past VW pic (since we’ve veered off topic) In college I had a lime green ‘73 bug. My roommate had an earlier bug- a ‘69, if I remember correctly. This pic was taken in 1982- not quite as classic as L&VW’s shot. Great memories with that bug, though!
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The long awaited update is in!! Sadly that Craigslist ad was outdated. Because I already bought the Panther yesterday! So my plan was to check out the minifish on Friday, then if I didn’t want it I would go get the Panther. But I was worried the panther wouldn’t last another day, so I refreshed the ad and did a double take on the price, it had indeed changed to $55! That was Thursday morning. I contacted the seller, and got out there as soon as I could get out of work. I brought lots of high-density foam to help spread the load across the roof so it didn’t rest soley on the crossbars per Cactus Cowboy’s advice!

To those who said that cartopping a sunfish-sized boat is difficult. GOOD LORD. That was absolutely the most ridiculous thing I’ve put on my roof so far, which is saying something. The seller and I struggled quite a bit but we got it up there, and I enlisted a good friend at home to help me unload it. I drove over an hour and a half with that thing on my roof and the rigging sticking out both ends of the car!

Here’s the deets: Panther was a bir rough around the edges.The part where the deck meets the hull was totally shot, and someone had tried to seal it with white caulking and it it was all crumbling and falling apart, so it would most certainly take on water if sailed. It hasn’t been sailed in 5 years. The auto-bailer had been taped over top and bottom, seller said it wasn’t working right before. Also, missing a drain plug which was on the stern at water level so that would’ve just let all the water in. So it needs some work before it’s lake-worthy unfortunately, but I took it home anyway because overall it has great potential. It has a huge cockpit, and an awesome rear storage hatch that will likely serve as a beer cooler in the near future!

When I paid the seller $55, he gave me $30 back because he didn’t realize how bad the seal around the boat was. So i bought the whole thing for $25!!!! Worth it!!7FC0A657-4CE4-4961-B5AE-64CF33BEC1F4.jpeg

But you know I still had to check out the Minifish this morning. Alan Glos was there but conceded dibs to me, thanks Alan! The minifish was far from perfect, it has a huge crack in the foredeck, chips and dings, and some exposed fiberglass on the hull. But overall pretty darn good, and best of all READY TO SAIL! So.... I took that one home too!! That’s right, I got both. My experience cartopping the Panther led me to realize there was absolutely no way I would ever sail that solo until I get a trailer hitch and a trailer, but that day is not now. The minifish seemed doable though. Sure enough after experimenting in my driveway (someone at the sale helped me get it on top when I bought it), I devised a technique for getting it on the car without help. My stock subaru crossbars don’t have provisions foradding telescoping poles to lift the bow onto, but turns out the hatchback is a nice ramp! I put lots of foam on my rear roof and rear window, then wheel the boat into position (the homemade dolly that came with it is a game changer). I then put a block of foam under the stern, lift the bow up onto the rear hatch, and then push from the stern and literally just slide the whole thing up and onto the crossbars, which take the weight without needing foam blocks. It isn't exactly easy but this would not be possible with the panther.
4064727B-7332-4D4A-B904-6C31B8E6C939.jpeg

By the afternoon I had the Minifish in the water and I went for a sail!! I love the colors :) So at times I wonder if it was dumb to buy the Minifish when I already scored the deal of the century on the panther. But aside from the fact that I can sail now, it also allows me to go out for a sail session whenever I feel spontaneous without the need for a second person to help. Until I get a trailer, the panther is a two-person job so the Minifish will get a lot of use :D
11FC1A61-46BE-49F4-A019-16898A9B0B55.jpeg

Oh by the way, I paid $250 for the Minifish. So 10x what I paid for the bigger boat, but I think that’s still a bargain right? I wound up with two similar but different boats for less than $300. So this was a long post but I felt I owed you guys the full story after all of the help! Thank you everyone for the multitude of responses, you all offered some good advice and helped me make what I hope was a good decision (by basically avoiding the decision altogether and getting both options). I’ll post updates to boat repairs as I get to it! P.S. Alan I totally forgot to put gorilla tape over the crack before I sailed, I was too eager! But I don’t think any water got in!
B5AC3354-11AD-4A4E-93B0-A1B74B1C494C.jpeg
 
The long awaited update is in!! Sadly that Craigslist ad was outdated. Because I already bought the Panther yesterday! So my plan was to check out the minifish on Friday, then if I didn’t want it I would go get the Panther. But I was worried the panther wouldn’t last another day, so I refreshed the ad and did a double take on the price, it had indeed changed to $55! That was Thursday morning. I contacted the seller, and got out there as soon as I could get out of work. I brought lots of high-density foam to help spread the load across the roof so it didn’t rest soley on the crossbars per Cactus Cowboy’s advice!

To those who said that cartopping a sunfish-sized boat is difficult. GOOD LORD. That was absolutely the most ridiculous thing I’ve put on my roof so far, which is saying something. The seller and I struggled quite a bit but we got it up there, and I enlisted a good friend at home to help me unload it. I drove over an hour and a half with that thing on my roof and the rigging sticking out both ends of the car!

Here’s the deets: Panther was a bir rough around the edges.The part where the deck meets the hull was totally shot, and someone had tried to seal it with white caulking and it it was all crumbling and falling apart, so it would most certainly take on water if sailed. It hasn’t been sailed in 5 years. The auto-bailer had been taped over top and bottom, seller said it wasn’t working right before. Also, missing a drain plug which was on the stern at water level so that would’ve just let all the water in. So it needs some work before it’s lake-worthy unfortunately, but I took it home anyway because overall it has great potential. It has a huge cockpit, and an awesome rear storage hatch that will likely serve as a beer cooler in the near future!

When I paid the seller $55, he gave me $30 back because he didn’t realize how bad the seal around the boat was. So i bought the whole thing for $25!!!! Worth it!!View attachment 40322

But you know I still had to check out the Minifish this morning. Alan Glos was there but conceded dibs to me, thanks Alan! The minifish was far from perfect, it has a huge crack in the foredeck, chips and dings, and some exposed fiberglass on the hull. But overall pretty darn good, and best of all READY TO SAIL! So.... I took that one home too!! That’s right, I got both. My experience cartopping the Panther led me to realize there was absolutely no way I would ever sail that solo until I get a trailer hitch and a trailer, but that day is not now. The minifish seemed doable though. Sure enough after experimenting in my driveway (someone at the sale helped me get it on top when I bought it), I devised a technique for getting it on the car without help. My stock subaru crossbars don’t have provisions foradding telescoping poles to lift the bow onto, but turns out the hatchback is a nice ramp! I put lots of foam on my rear roof and rear window, then wheel the boat into position (the homemade dolly that came with it is a game changer). I then put a block of foam under the stern, lift the bow up onto the rear hatch, and then push from the stern and literally just slide the whole thing up and onto the crossbars, which take the weight without needing foam blocks. It isn't exactly easy but this would not be possible with the panther.
View attachment 40323

By the afternoon I had the Minifish in the water and I went for a sail!! I love the colors :) So at times I wonder if it was dumb to buy the Minifish when I already scored the deal of the century on the panther. But aside from the fact that I can sail now, it also allows me to go out for a sail session whenever I feel spontaneous without the need for a second person to help. Until I get a trailer, the panther is a two-person job so the Minifish will get a lot of use :D
View attachment 40324

Oh by the way, I paid $250 for the Minifish. So 10x what I paid for the bigger boat, but I think that’s still a bargain right? I wound up with two similar but different boats for less than $300. So this was a long post but I felt I owed you guys the full story after all of the help! Thank you everyone for the multitude of responses, you all offered some good advice and helped me make what I hope was a good decision (by basically avoiding the decision altogether and getting both options). I’ll post updates to boat repairs as I get to it! P.S. Alan I totally forgot to put gorilla tape over the crack before I sailed, I was too eager! But I don’t think any water got in!
View attachment 40325
The Minifish is awesome, sail it! You will have a great time and learn a lot...
 

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