New Upgrades proposed by Ed Adams In Sailing World

Sailing4LIFE

New Member
I am sure many of you fellow Laser Lovers have seen, In May 2010 adiition of sailing world, in the Tech Review section, Ed Adams (2002 Laser Masters World Champ and has owned 13 lasers since 1973) has proposed some upgrades for the laser. He states "The two-part aluminum mast should be made of carbon tubes." now i will hardly be able to afford a radial sail next year because 120 pounds is a bit heavy for 4.7! I'm not sure i would be able to afford new carbon spars, and if im not, how much more of an advantage is everyone else with carbon spars going to have over me? I'm not familiar with the flexibility of carbon, so when i go to crank my vang on in 20 knots and the mast bends, is it going to snap?
There is also talk about changing the fullrig sail design but i am not that smart in sail design so i'll leave that for the experts to discuss. Ed also states "Perhaps it's time to cut the hull weight back to 125 pounds..." I see that this is a great idea but when I arrive to a light wind regatta weighing 10 pounds heavier than some of the competition should i recieve a handicapped rating? I'm not trying to say that these upgrades are rediculous but just looking out for the future of the Laser class. Opinions please and Thank you!
 
I'm a newby here, but not to sailing.

If we ( the class ) is going to sit around and grouse about Intensity Sails and their legality in major events, and Intensity blades and their legality in the same events, then this guy is absolutely off the deep end.

Those are major changes, as in defining a new class. Class rules are there to allow folks to compete with the 'same' equipment. Being a 'classic' laser owner, I might be even biased against the hearty vang and outhaul arrangements that are not on my boat.

I am pretty much in favor of keeping the boat 'stock', even though I personally cannot afford to buy a new laser sail every other season so I can be fast.
 
In my opinion the mast should be made out of gold according with the price you pay for a legal class stuff, so I would support the change as far as the price remains the same, not to mention if it is cheaper.

It will be also interesting to know which option is more environmentally friendly.
 
its time we get what we are paying for. At the costs of a new boat it should already come with a carbon spar and the cost of the class legal sail should be woven out of gold.
 
I didn't know that the boat weighs more now than it did back then when it first came out. That can't be done. Everyone would have to buy newer boats to want to be competitive.
 
Why would it need to be tweaked at all... it's not as if the wind is different now than it was in 1972.

As far as the boat weight, I could stop drinking PBR and drop 10 lbs off the wight by the end of summer.
 
Carbon Fiber is stronger than steel while being lightweight, they've been used on keel boats for a while. Carbon fiber can snap, especially on boats like the volvo ocean racers because of the extreme loads they endure. The performance will change based on the weight difference, and bend of the mast/sail shape. The gains will likely be minimal on a laser but, its still a good idea in theory.

It will be difficult to change the full rig sail, especially if it increases performance because anyone that wants to be competitive will have to buy one.

125lbs is 10lbs lighter than a brand new built perfectly to spec laser. This will definitely disadvantage older hulls and even newer 135lbs+/- a few lbs hulls. Having a hull that is 7+% lighter will be nice for anyone that has one, with new technology it is possible to build a stronger hull and still lose 10lbs.
 
The whole idea of a one design class is to keep cost down. On the club level you can compete with a 15 year old boat. A Carbon mast is an uncessary expensive to make a fleet upgrade to. It will definately have an advantage in weight alone let along flexability. Drop the hull weight 10 pds, unnecessary. Improve the sail cloth to last loonger, i think thats an upgrade long overdue
 
Carbon Fiber is stronger than steel while being lightweight, they've been used on keel boats for a while. Carbon fiber can snap, especially on boats like the volvo ocean racers because of the extreme loads they endure. The performance will change based on the weight difference, and bend of the mast/sail shape. The gains will likely be minimal on a laser but, its still a good idea in theory.

It will be difficult to change the full rig sail, especially if it increases performance because anyone that wants to be competitive will have to buy one.

125lbs is 10lbs lighter than a brand new built perfectly to spec laser. This will definitely disadvantage older hulls and even newer 135lbs+/- a few lbs hulls. Having a hull that is 7+% lighter will be nice for anyone that has one, with new technology it is possible to build a stronger hull and still lose 10lbs.

They are already working on a radial cut full rig sail.
 
I think that we can calm down about this. As also mentioned in that article, the Laser class has the most strict standards of any one design class. There will be no rush to change. Here are a couple of observations:
  • I believe that the class officials are conscious of the cost of new parts and trying to keep them down to a similar price as the existing parts.
  • I don't believe than any huge performance changes will be made before the 2012 Olympics.
  • A huge performance change is definitely possible. Look at the change to deck mounted blocks in 2001 for an example. You really cannot be competitive without them.
  • That said, I am sure that the class officials are aware of trying to keep older boats and gear somewhat competitive.
  • Anyone who has ever broken a top mast section is all for changes to the mast design.
  • Anyone who has ever broken a top section has probably also torn their sail and needed a new one. Between the mast section and a sail, you are talking about a repair of over $700 (over $800 after taxes in CA).
  • Any changes that will be made will be argued over and batted around for many months before they are allowed. Start saving your money. Change is good in this case, I think.
  • I have seen one of the new sails that has been proposed for the full rig. I did not sail with it, but it really looks like an improvement. The person using that new version did very well in the local regatta.
thanks,
Ralph
#175237
 
I think that we can calm down about this. As also mentioned in that article, the Laser class has the most strict standards of any one design class. There will be no rush to change. Here are a couple of observations:
  • I believe that the class officials are conscious of the cost of new parts and trying to keep them down to a similar price as the existing parts.
  • I don't believe than any huge performance changes will be made before the 2012 Olympics.
  • A huge performance change is definitely possible. Look at the change to deck mounted blocks in 2001 for an example. You really cannot be competitive without them.
  • That said, I am sure that the class officials are aware of trying to keep older boats and gear somewhat competitive.
  • Anyone who has ever broken a top mast section is all for changes to the mast design.
  • Anyone who has ever broken a top section has probably also torn their sail and needed a new one. Between the mast section and a sail, you are talking about a repair of over $700 (over $800 after taxes in CA).
  • Any changes that will be made will be argued over and batted around for many months before they are allowed. Start saving your money. Change is good in this case, I think.
  • I have seen one of the new sails that has been proposed for the full rig. I did not sail with it, but it really looks like an improvement. The person using that new version did very well in the local regatta.
thanks,
Ralph
#175237

Lots of good points here. The class is often afraid of change, being very concerned about "loss of competition". However not changing may very well be the cause of less competition, mainly butts in boats.

I know many people who avoided the class because of the "stupid Laser tricks" rigging. The upgraded rigging helped address that. I believe we are approaching a similar point with the expensive class sail and the cheap knock-offs.
 
For me the main issue is "why ?"

If the changes proposed are to make the boat faster then its a complete non-starter as it would in effect create a new class (and there are already plenty of those). So lowering the hull weight would achieve what ? Better speed, planing in lower winds, etc. any of which would just completely mess-up the existing success of the fleet.

Why change to carbon spars. From what Tracy said some time ago about the investigation into a Radial upper section in carbon it was looking like it would be quite a bit more expensive. How often do people break their masts and would carbon lower that possibility - all without changing boat performance ?

Similarly with the much discussed sail issue. My thoughts are that the problem with the sail is the cost per race (i.e. that they are expensive and don't last long). This could be addressed by dramatic price reductions (unlikely ?). Maybe a re-design is the way through making the sail last longer - but the critical thing is that this is achieved without performance enhancements.

It sounds like the proposals include at least some to make the boat perform better - which is creating a new class, destroying everybody's existing investment in their boats and maybe shows the person proposing the change does not understand the class (though I would never start arguing that I do - just that I understand what I like about the class). If the changes are about performance improvements then those can be achieved by changing class.

Maybe the XD upgrades have a performance impact. However, existing boats can be upgraded (for a lot lot less than buying a new hull) and the change does arguably broaden the appeal of the boat, making it viable for a wider range of people and thus helping bigger fleets.

Ian
 
Having measured boats at the open worlds, it's surprising just how many of the top male standard rig sailors have not fully converted to the turbo / XD set up, many are still running the old vangs system. The Turbo / XD kit doesn't give a performance advantage, it allows everybody to utilise their sail controls more eaily. If anything it's narrowed the performance range, as the top sailors were already fully utilising their sail controls.
 
Why change to carbon spars. From what Tracy said some time ago about the investigation into a Radial upper section in carbon it was looking like it would be quite a bit more expensive. How often do people break their masts and would carbon lower that possibility - all without changing boat performance ?

An upper composite mast wasn't about breakage; it was for really lightweight women to compete in the Radial. If anything, it would make the 4.7 obsolete. I had a chance to try it when I visited SF a couple of years ago. Felt funky as it spilled air and changed the performance of the boat. Like training wheels. There would probably be less of that feeling for women who actually are really lightweight. ;)
 
The carbon upper was proposed for many reasons.

1. The builders thought they could make more money if the boat had a carbon top section.

Why??

The sales pitch was and I am not endorsing or criticizing...just relating the facts as I know them...

the radial lower section was at it's aluminum design limits and the top section was too strong for it. There was no more available structure without making to too stiff.. The aluminum top section cannot be made thinner or it would simply break.

So.

The solution to stopping the horrible rate of bending radial lowers was to make a plastic top section with the forces rearranged to the top section could bend enough without bending and destroying the lower section.

Some spars were built and even tested in regattas. The problem seemed to be getting the things into production as a reasonable price.

The solution has been to re=design the sail and decrease the necessary amount of mast bending to sail fast.

end hijack:

As for teh Sailing World Article....?? Their publication of an irrational inflammatory Laser article isn't going to suck me into picking up one of their rags and reading their ads.
 
I sailed with my sons Radial rig this weekend in 12-15 and I was shocked by the bend in the upper, But I didnt recognize the lower spar bending, maybe the top just scared me too much to look at anything else.

Would the Carbon help or cause more breakage for the lower spar?
 
I sailed with my sons Radial rig this weekend in 12-15 and I was shocked by the bend in the upper, But I didnt recognize the lower spar bending, maybe the top just scared me too much to look at anything else.

Would the Carbon help or cause more breakage for the lower spar?

Less lower spar breakage is the intent. The carbon upper will bend more than a metal one, taking the load off the lower.
 
hola.
I say please leave the boat alone....if you want so many modifications...design a boat with all of that and get on it, join an open class and tinker it to death... I race my laser against a very good sailor at my club level. He beats me all the time. I have gotten it down to about 3 minutes in a five mile race (as opposed to 5 to 7 min. in years past). So, I get all the modifications, spiffy bendy mast, that super ultra new sail, the updated blades (sure to come out soon) and I finally beat him....did I?...he is still a better sailor...I just have a "different boat", not a laser anymore not like his. Nah, I'll keep trying to get better and get him someday based on my sailing not my pocketbook. Oh come on...someday I'll be on fire and he will have a so-so day and I'll get him!! oh but wait..he "smarts" up and gets all the new modifications and he beats me by tons of minutes now....is he a better sailor now?...no, same guy different boat. Do I feel I have a chance?..no not based on the "boat-arms race".
have a lovely day
ARM
 
There's a lot of constructive discussion in this thread. As the editor who put together the story (and wrote the Farr 30 bit) I'm pleased to see it generate discussion here and elsewhere. We'll have the story up on SailingWorld.com soon, we're launching a new website now and working out the bugs is taking most of our web time.

If there's a disappointment with the story it's that I had to chop the intro so dramatically due to space constraints. The original intro did a better job of setting the table for the story.

One thing I will add, which has only come to me recently, is that a common link between all three boats is they're true one-designs. This is a newer concept in sailing. Many dinghies that we consider one-designs are actually box rules, with the design required to meet a series of measurements. The Lightning, the Star, and the 470 all fit this description. Anyone can build and race a boat within the class, provided it measures in. It's an important distinction because the box rule classes can evolve. As construction techniques improve the boats become stronger, possibly lighter. The sails can be designed for maximum performance and/or durability, the deck layout can be changed to make sailing easier.

Most modern dinghies are, for financial reasons, true one-designs, where the boats are built from identical plugs or molds and most everything is controlled by a single builder, designer, or company. This is great for level competition and keeping costs down, but it stunts development as most changes are controlled by the patent holder, which is loathe to disenfranchise potential customers by changing the design.

This means that change comes, if it comes at all, in fits and starts and is more of a shock to the system than the gradual development in box-rule "one-designs." But it's still necessary. A re-designed Laser will be that much more viable in the years to come. Same goes for the J/24 and the Farr 30.

Maybe making the boat lighter would scare off more Laser sailors than it would attract and yes you could say that would be a new boat. However, changing the rig and sail could make the boat easier to sail competitively by a wider range of people. It could make the rig more durable, faster, and in the long run, cheaper to own.

Initially it will hurt. Changes of this type usually do. People will get upset and leave the class. But when evaluating the idea, it's important to look long term at the health of the class, not simply whether it suits your individual budget, sailing style, etc.

-Stuart Streuli
Sailing World
Laser Fleet 413 (Newport, R.I.) co-captain
 
I still think you are missing the whole concept of the class and changes that have occurred in the class previously. The aim of all previous changes has been to improve the boat, making it easier to manufacture (moving away from timber boards, grab rails etc) or easier to sail (control lines) and occasionally with consumable items (sails) to improve definite flaws (3.2 oz - 3.8 oz upgrade to the sails and a few recuts).

The changes have never been about making the boat faster or obtain better sailing performance. The reason for this is that it makes all older boats obsolete. Making older boats obsolete will kill the class as people who own them will be no longer competitive against those that do upgrade. The sails is the only area where a significant loss of performance occurs as the boat gets older (assuming the boat is well maintained) and while the cost of sails is high at the moment, sails are a consumable item and would need to be replaced whether you're sailing a 1 year old boat or a 30 year old boat.

What you're proposing is likely to split the class, lead to a reduction in numbers at regattas and isolate clubs. It will be detrimental to the class.
 
open up the sails to a "box rule" design, making them "premeasred" from the factory and stop the price gouging.

Do you know how many more competitive boats could potentially come out of the garage if they could afford a new competitive sail at a REASONABLE price?

Im all for keeping everything elase the same, but the sail has never been a strong point of the boat, and letting other sailmakers buld it to strict set dimensions would hopefully bring the price down...hopefully
 
Alan,

The sail control upgrades most certainly improved the performance of the boat. Which is why virtually every Laser sailor went out and bought the package or modified their systems to take advantage of the rules. It made it easier to depower the sail in heavy air and easier to adjust the outhaul in all conditions. It made the boat faster around the course? It also made it easier to sail…faster. Sure it was a painful expense, but I've yet to find a regular Laser sailor who thinks it was a mistake?

As Ed pointed out in his story the boat has changed many times. Most times for the better. These changes would no different, though you could argue against the weight change and I wouldn't fight it. There is a possibility they would split the class, though I think that fear is greatly overstated. The people who race the boat a lot will stick with it. You'll lose the once-a-year folks, but that won't kill the class.
There's also a possibility that tomorrow someone will launch the next great one-design or that the Olympics will decide that they need a higher-tech boat and the Laser will become obsolete.

Evolution is a key to any longstanding class. If the Laser doesn't, sooner or later something more modern will take it's place. Then we all lose.

-SS
 
Reducing the hull weight would definitely be a class killer. Most people don't race Lasers because they want performance - they race Lasers because of the simplicity and the big one design fleets.

If improved technology exists that could make the hull 10 pounds lighter, couldn't that same technology also be used to make the hull much more durable at the current weight? Or would improved hull durability limit the builder's profit too much for them to consider?

On the other hand, new sails/spars would help build the class. Again, better durability for similar performance and cost is what is needed. It's only a matter of time until we are using composite spars and better sails across all rigs, particularly full rig - it may take a few years to happen, but to me it's inevitable, so we might as well just do it and move on. As long as performance is close to the current rig and costs are under control, the rest is easy.
 
I'm a newby here, but not to sailing.

If we ( the class ) is going to sit around and grouse about Intensity Sails and their legality in major events, and Intensity blades and their legality in the same events, then this guy is absolutely off the deep end.

Do you know Ed Adams? What he's done? How hard he is to catch and how GOOD of a laser sailor he is? Google Ed Adams sailing. I suggest you talk about him with a little more respect.
 
open up the sails to a "box rule" design, making them "premeasred" from the factory and stop the price gouging.

Add in 'measure the sails at major regattas' and you have a great plan. I am all in favor of this concept, but I fear I am in a very small minority...

I'm from the Highlander class, they fit the box rule to a T. The class is dying.. and so are many other classes that were the cream of the crop in the 70's. Don't know why, other than cost. A new Highlander is close to 20K, and it's simply not worth that at all. Not even close. Same for coupla other Sandy D designs. Gone ( or close ) because of price. I hope the Laser class outlives me (likely) and is a viable class for my grandsons to enjoy in mid life.
 
Do you know Ed Adams? What he's done? How hard he is to catch and how GOOD of a laser sailor he is? Google Ed Adams sailing. I suggest you talk about him with a little more respect.

I mean no disrespect to anybody. I'm simply making the point that if we grouse about something as insignificant as sail mfgr and how many cleats are on a deck, then the concept of changing the mast material to fiber is just off scale in magnitude.

I'm sure Mr Adams is a much better sailor than I.. hell, most any sailor is much better than I in speed, but few have more fun :)
 

The sail control upgrades most certainly improved the performance of the boat. Which is why virtually every Laser sailor went out and bought the package or modified their systems to take advantage of the rules. It made it easier to depower the sail in heavy air and easier to adjust the outhaul in all conditions. It made the boat faster around the course? It also made it easier to sail…faster. Sure it was a painful expense, but I've yet to find a regular Laser sailor who thinks it was a mistake?

As Ed pointed out in his story the boat has changed many times. Most times for the better. These changes would no different, though you could argue against the weight change and I wouldn't fight it. There is a possibility they would split the class, though I think that fear is greatly overstated. The people who race the boat a lot will stick with it. You'll lose the once-a-year folks, but that won't kill the class.
There's also a possibility that tomorrow someone will launch the next great one-design or that the Olympics will decide that they need a higher-tech boat and the Laser will become obsolete.

Evolution is a key to any longstanding class. If the Laser doesn't, sooner or later something more modern will take it's place. Then we all lose.

-SS


Just because something became easier doesn't mean it is faster. As mentioned elsewhere, a considerable number of the elite sailors didn't fully change their control line systems, Michael Blackburn, Brett Beyer, just from my local scene and there were many others at the 2008 Worlds (Standard Open, Masters, Radial Men’s & Women’s). Those with good technique didn't see the need to change. Now if people doing Olympic campaigns didn't think it gave them a competitive advantage making the boat faster, then the change probably had no impact on the time taken around the course. From personal experience of sailing these boats since the early 80's, my sail settings haven't changed that much as a result of changes or new ways to rig the control lines, although I do admit that the settings have changed because we now sail the boats very differently.

As for the class becoming obsolete, no doubt it will happen, but the reason why the class is so strong is because so many people sail them. So many people sail them because someone can be just as competitive with an old boat in good condition with a good sail as someone with a brand new boat, even at the elite level. It means that there is a second hand boat market and people will see getting an old boat is feasible low budget entry into the class. The result is a lot of people sail lasers. Suddenly making nearly 200,000 boats obsolete overnight will be something that does make the class unpopular and will lead to a huge drop out of the class. People want to race against their mates with similar gear, they don't want to suddenly find their mate is effectively sailing a different class of boat.

As for no longer being an Olympic Class, being it on. If anything has damaged the class it's being involved with the Olympics. We used to go to regattas and compete on equal terms with everyone. Now there is an elite bunch and a large bunch of wannabes, that turn up to regattas with the support boats and coaches, who train 6 days a week and are paid to sail, how can a club hack turn up to a regatta enjoy being at the rear end of the fleet after being abused by someone who think that cattle ranges/sheep stations are up for grabs. 90% of people sail lasers because it's fun, they have no ambition of Olympic gold, yet anyone from that 90% are barely tolerated at the more significant regattas. It's time the class takes back the sailing and runs events for the people who actually want to sail the boats because it's fun.
 
Add in 'measure the sails at major regattas' and you have a great plan. I am all in favor of this concept, but I fear I am in a very small minority...

And I'm sure you're going to volunteer to measurer them. Or are you just wanting someone else to spend their time doing an unpaid service, sacrificing their time of actually sailing the boat?
 
Alan,

Was the Laser picked for Olympic duty due to it's low cost and the vast numbers of boats scattered about the planet? This would make it easy for countries without a sailing heritage or sailing program to get set up for little cost. Also, wasn't the Laser a replacement for the Finn because the Finn was getting kinda crazy with the high tech/high cost?
 
I don't know. I'd assume that it more easily met the IOC's requirements for being sailed on more continents and by more countries, than some of the other classes. In my opinion it was stupid not to have the Laser a Olympic class from the IOC perspective, but traditionally gaining Olympic status has been a death nail for a class. I understand the ILCA had refused the IOC on several previous occasions. precisely for that reason. Tracy would have a better knowledge in this area.
 
Add in 'measure the sails at major regattas' and you have a great plan. I am all in favor of this concept, but I fear I am in a very small minority...

open up the sails to a "box rule" design, making them "premeasred" from the factory and stop the price gouging.

Do you know how many more competitive boats could potentially come out of the garage if they could afford a new competitive sail at a REASONABLE price?

Im all for keeping everything elase the same, but the sail has never been a strong point of the boat, and letting other sailmakers buld it to strict set dimensions would hopefully bring the price down...hopefully

First off the builder(s) are never going to allow their cash cow to leave their hands (ie, allow us to purchase direct from the sailmaker)

IMHO our best hope is to get the sail design changed so it lasts at least twice as long as the current design, and keep the price within $50 of the current cost. That's realistic and easily achievable (if the builders wanted to do it ! (cut their yearly profits on sails in half))

For those that keep suggesting allowing multiple sailmakers in open competition with each other, selling direct, please point out some other large classes with that model where the prices of sails relative to the Laser sail are so much less expsensive. It's certainly not ANY of the other Olympic classes, nor the Opti, Thistle, Lightning, Etchells
 
The thing is, you can always make something better, but the "better" is not always better for everybody. Changes would suit some and not others. In the case of the Laser, changing e.g. hull weight, changing to carbon spars, etc. might suit those who want a more exciting boat, etc. but would kill the class for those of us who find excitement in competing against others on equal terms.

I think that those proposing the changes (Ed Adams and the SS???) don't understand what the class is about for many. It might not be the best boat ever, but there are loads around, you don't need a new boat to be competitive, any club has a decent fleet, of all the classes, Laser is invariably better turn-out than most other classes (e.g. even in handicap races there are often more Lasers than any other single class), etc., etc.

On a few specific points raised:

Most modern dinghies are ... true one-designs ... This is great for level competition and keeping costs down, but it stunts development as most changes are controlled by the patent holder, which is loathe to disenfranchise potential customers by changing the design.

Initially it will hurt. Changes of this type usually do. People will get upset and leave the class.

There are other classes where there is loads of ongoing development, where last year's hull/rig is worthless and for some people it is what they seek. For most Laser sailors it is not what they seek. The boat suits them, the fleets suit them, the high resale value suits them, etc. You always get a few who want to change everything but I suspect they do not appreciate what the class is about. And in the case of a Laser there are a lot of existing owners to "be hurt". And why do we want to be hurt because we already like the boat. Occasional tweaks and occasional improvements that do not impact performance are great as we still compete on equal terms. I really cannot appreciate why when somebody decides they want something different they want to mess-up everything for vast numbers of owners rather than just change to a class that would suit them better without needing them to change the rules to be everything the class in intended not to be.


Evolution is a key to any longstanding class. If the Laser doesn't, sooner or later something more modern will take it's place.

But is is evolving - slowly and without impacting performance. I kind of thought that the Laser was already a "long standing class" and as such has already proven that it's "evolution" is adequate to maintain its position. That others want to "hi-tech" does not mean if we don't adopt carbon high performance spars then the class will die - that is just daft.

The sail control upgrades most certainly improved the performance of the boat. Which is why virtually every Laser sailor went out and bought the package or modified their systems to take advantage of the rules. ...It also made it easier to sail…faster. Sure it was a painful expense, but I've yet to find a regular Laser sailor who thinks it was a mistake?

But with the sail controls you could continue to use the old ones or upgrade - straight choice and still be the same boat. If you wanted to upgrade a few hundred £/$ - expensive but a lot cheaper than new carbon spars+matching new sail or new hull. There are degrees of "pain" and necessity. Change the hull and I doubt "virtually every Laser sailor" would go out and buy a new hull. Change the spars+sail and I doubt virtually every Laser sailor would go out and buy the new ones to get the improved performance. Fleets would decline (as people get frustrated with losing to "Lasers" with lighter hulls and hi-tech spars, etc. when before on equal terms they were in with a chance). Similarly, those with loads of money who purchased new hulls/spars/everything and started winning would take no pride because they would know inside that the money they spent was what was giving them the improved results. Maybe give the new hulls/equipment a different handicap ? - well many Lasers sailors sail Lasers because they don't like handicap racing. It would kill the class but fortunately those who periodically pop-up with such plans disappear equally quickly.

Ian
 
The thing is, you can always make something better, but the "better" is not always better for everybody. Changes would suit some and not others. In the case of the Laser, changing e.g. hull weight, changing to carbon spars, etc. might suit those who want a more exciting boat, etc. but would kill the class for those of us who find excitement in competing against others on equal terms.

Why ? Most aren't competing on equal terms right now. Anyone with a new sail has an advantage over someone with an older, tired sail. Anyone with a new hull has an advantage over someone with an older more flexible hull. Anyone with straight spars has an advantage over someone with bent spars...

The suggestions for changes might just make the racing a little more equal for a longer time span over the life of the boat/spar/sail
 
Also, wasn't the Laser a replacement for the Finn because the Finn was getting kinda crazy with the high tech/high cost?

IIRC, it was added in to match up with the avg weight of males worldwide. The Finn was/is looked at as requiring a larger then avg male, thereby excluding many countries
 
Why ? Most aren't competing on equal terms right now. Anyone with a new sail has an advantage over someone with an older, tired sail. Anyone with a new hull has an advantage over someone with an older more flexible hull. Anyone with straight spars has an advantage over someone with bent spars...

The suggestions for changes might just make the racing a little more equal for a longer time span over the life of the boat/spar/sail

Such things are going to happen in any class using any technology. Make a sail that lasts 5 years through any winds in that time and you will still have people using old less competitive sails. Changes to make the racing a little more equal for a longer time are fine, but not at the cost of destroying the vast numbers of boats and fleets that are already out there and being sailed and raced and giving loads of us lots of fun. Fine is somebody wants to start a new class, build a new boat that is lighter, has carbon spars, etc. and see how it sells against the Laser. If such a boat is a good idea them people will flock from the Laser to the new class. I tend to think there are too many classes around duplicating each other and diluting the fleet sizes but enlarging the handicap fleets. But that is my opinion and unsurprisingly has no impact on boat designers/builders.

Ian
 

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