First Sunfish. Your thoughts?

Fisher057

New Member
Hi all. I’ve been interested in sailing for awhile. I’ve been thinking about building a pdracer since about 2010.... but the wife and I are restoring an old house and I have to choose between building a boat or working on the house.

I found this sunfish (after almost buying a sailfish!) for 300 dollars. It includes rigging and sail. It is missing the gudgeon. I know these photos aren’t great, but any concerning points from this who are in the know? She has been in storage for quite awhile.

I’ve done some research and I know to check out her weight. I know tons about wood and little about fiberglass (although I’m handy, so we’ll change that). I just don’t know what to look for.

Thanks so much!
Chris
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Got my chores done, now I'm drinking a beer or two (or five) before loading cardboard moving boxes. Nice score for 3 bills, deck looks good enough to simply clean & polish. Hull & cockpit, not so much, LOL... if that's a crack in the second pic, you wanna address that first. Don't forget to check the dagger well for cracks, use a bright light if you need it. All cheesy attempts at glass repair should be sanded and re-glassed or re-coated with resin, that crack (if it IS a crack, looks like one to me) should be addressed by sanding and possibly grinding before filling with catalyzed resin, all hull gouges to be filled with the product of your choice (there are options), with the entire hull & cockpit ultimately painted to get rid of the ugliness. Rudder & dagger need light sanding and varnishing, tiller too if it's wooden, hard for me to tell by looking at that one pic. Deck to be cleaned & polished as noted, sail washed if necessary, running rigging checked and replaced if necessary... don't know when the previous owner last replaced the lines, if at all. Fittings & hardware updated as necessary. Otherwise, you're looking good, you'll undoubtedly have a blast aboard that Obamanomic Megayacht!!! :eek:

And now, a quick Sam Kinison reminder for all website paint-haters: "PAINT!!! YES, PAINT!!! SAY IT!!! SAY IT!!!" ;)

Okay, I'm good, just had to get that out of my system... maybe it's the Crudweiser, aye??? :rolleyes:
 
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Howdy,

Nice looking, spars, blades and sail. The concerning point is the missing gudgeon, but my guess is there has been a rudder conversion based off of the stripes. Is there an inspection port on the stern, in other words do you have interior access back there? If so installation of another gudgeon would be easy with machine screws, metal backer plate, washers, stop nuts and a little sealant. We need to determine which rudder it was/is set up for. The factory new style rudder had a metal plate with self tapping machine screws, might be able to pop a new gudgeon right back on there into the old holes.

Being in storage good, hopefully she is dry. An early fish, she should weigh around 139 with 5 more pounds not uncommon. Built stout.

Fiberglass repairs take a little time/work, but immensely doable.

Cheers
Kent and Skipper
 
I'm partial to blue decks and this one looks really nice. Just for
kicks canvass a couple body shops and see what it would cost
re gelcoat the bottom hull if you did all the prep work.That would be
one sweet Sunfish when it was done. The good news is that polyester
resin Band-Aid patches come off real easy with a putty scraper and heat
gun. If you know wood work you already have a trained eyeball for good
prep work prior to finishing. I'm wishing my blue deck Sunfish would look
as good as this is going to look but UV rays have decided otherwise.
 
I can sell you a stainess steel gudgeon bracket with mounting screws for $12 + shipping, but e-mail me photos of the transom and aft deck so I can tell you what you need.

Alan Glos
Cazenovia. NY
 
That's certainly the cheapest method of solving that problem, short of theft down at the marina, LOL... $12 + shipping, reckon you should jump on that offer. :cool:
 
Thanks everyone for the nudging! I ended up pulling the trigger. I car topped the boat home.

Because of those nasty patches, I thinks i am going to end up painting the bottom instead of gelcoating. I’ll sand them down and re-resin, but I think that it’s the best option without investing too much money into her (did I mention I have an 1820 Cape Cod to finish too!?). The top I’ll polish and restore the old gel-coat.

This seriously can become an addiction. I’ve spent the entire evening doing research. I want to do things right, but I also want to get her out this season.

Thanks!
Chris
 
LP or linear polyurethane primer & paint will do just fine for this sorta craft where the hull flexes considerably under way... I'm glad you pinged on the budgetary factor, not all sailors & "yachtsmen" were born with silver spoons in their mouths, LOL. The only reason I keep harping on paint as a cheap alternative, not to mention custom wooden cradles for trailers, is the fact that "I WUZ BONE A PO' BLACK CHILE!!!" :eek:

Being a notoriously cheap b@stard doesn't hurt either, I'd sooner go dumpster diving for clean lumber scraps at a construction site than pay for welding equipment & services... and I can personally guarantee that paint is cheaper than gel coating, whether you do the work yourself or pay somebody to do it. Meh, I'm used to huffing paint on boat projects, it goes with the territory when you're a "struggling sailor." :rolleyes:

One thing I really like about using LP, you can pick some pretty cool colors... you can use pigment with resin & gel coat, but I dunno, I like the wide range of colors available in good LP products. I've had purple hulls, blue hulls like DC's "Stars & Stripes" (looks great with a gleaming white deck), black hulls like the Kiwi boats... the black hulls are somewhat sinister, they're great for pirate ships, LOL. :cool:

MEH, YOU'LL FIGURE IT OUT, YA STILL SCORED WITH THAT BOAT, AND SOON YOU'LL BE SAILING LIKE A CRUSTY NAUTICAL DEMON, AYE??? ;)
 
Those metal De Persia bailers are getting scarce (and expensive) :eek:.

I'd spray some PB Blaster inside and out. It's not likely to budge without "chemistry".

.
 
I knew that boat looked familiar- I checked it out about 6 weeks ago! You got a good deal, for sure. The rudder alone is worth $200. You will need an inspection port to attach the gudgeon and some fiberglass work on the hull. May not be sailing next weekend, but you’ll be out there soon enough!
 
I just shot Alan a message (thanks Alan!). I’d come pick it up (as I’m on the CT border of NY but you’re almost 4 hours away. Damn big states

I knew that boat looked familiar- I checked it out about 6 weeks ago! You got a good deal, for sure. The rudder alone is worth $200. You will need an inspection port to attach the gudgeon and some fiberglass work on the hull. May not be sailing next weekend, but you’ll be out there soon enough!
Thanks for the bid of confidence! Since you saw the boat. The fiberglass work along the bottom. Since I am painting, isnit salvagable? I have a feeling the damage underneath is pretty bad and I don’t know if I am skilled enough to fix it. My concern is that it looks like they didn’t shave down the epoxy(?) layer and build it up, so it looks like the last level of fiberglass is as high as the gel coat. If I need to redo it, I will. I’m not afraid of a project and if I don’t do it close to right it’s going to bother the heck out of me!

As far as the gudgeon: there are 4 bolts there. Please forgive my ignorance (as the amount of information out there is dizzying) but can’t I just unscrew those and slap the new gudgeon on? That would be preferred!

Sorry for all of the questions!
Chris
 
I didn’t actually see it, but she sent me several good pics. It was the patch on the keel, which prob goes through to the patch in the cockpit, that made me hesitate, but I’m working on another blue-decked Sunfish with the same issue- see my recent thread. Yes, you’ll want to grind off that old patch and see what you’re working with. You can definitely do it- just ask with any questions and search this forum. I think it needed some aluminum trim, too. Maybe post here in ‘wanted’ and someone local may have it. Do a leak test before reattaching that trim, you’ll probably want to seal the seam with epoxy.
No, unfortunately you can’t just screw in the gudgeon. You’ll need a backing plate inside the hull to give it the strength it will need against the force applied to it in the water. Good info here, and with Signal Charlie on YouTube on how to install an inspection port.
 
Yes, you’ll want to grind off that old patch and see what you’re working with.

You’ll need a backing plate inside the hull to give it the strength it will need against the force applied to it in the water.

I don't see why the old patches need to be ground way and re-done if they seem solid and pass a pressure test. I'd just sand them smooth and hit them with Rustoleum spray paint.

The hull may well already have the backing plate. It may be a 1972 hull which came with the new rudder, or a retrofitted 1971. If it is a 1971, there would most likely be an inspection port already there from the retrofit, but I can't tell as the rudder is lying where the inspection port would be. Note that it is a new style rudder, and there are 4 screws sticking out of the transom, so at some point it had the new rudder bracket on there. Lets hope the plate is in there. If you are in doubt as to whether the internal plate is there, I'd buy the external bracket and the correct machine screws, screw it on and see if the screws bite into a backing plate or not. But if it is a 1972, it is unlikely there is no plate.
 
What Beldar said. Buy a handful of machine screws 2 different sizes, start with #8 about 2 inches long and see if they bite. If they do but are a bit loose then try the #10s. They should both be a 32 thread count.

As for paint, the cheapest quickest is Rustoleum rattle can. Good paint, but it coats thin. Spray the bottom with 6 cans and go sailing. Splurge for another 6 cans next season. Just paint the side, who looks at the bottom :)

If you to paint then there are many ways to get the color you want. Our Lowes sells Rustoleum Topside Marine in basic colors. Interlux Brightside, Pettit EZPoxy, TotalBoat WetEdge have their color lines, and you can get anything you want from Kirby Paint, they will custom mix it for you plus they have great selection from their website, mixing paint in the USA since 1846. When you call tell George that we sent you. One more way to get paint is to go buy some oil based (alkyd enamel) house paint and have them mix the color you want, example Valspar Ulta 4000.

No point in doing anything until you do a air leak test or water test. Some nasty looking spot may be watertight and then there may be hard to see "chine bubblers." Recently we used our cordless shop vac as the air source and it worked great, prefer cordless to not have power cords near water.


And like BB said, keep the good patches. One of our boats is like that, because it OUR boat, not one we are trying to sell. If you look close you might see the fiberglass bandaid slapped on our 1965 Alcort WAVE's bottom, she went through a hailstorm while in Texas storage. If I am selling a boat I want it to look smooth but more important I want to know what is underneath it before someone else puts their kid on it.

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Cheers
Kent and Crash Test Dummy Skipper
 
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Hey Fisher057, side note, but I saw you are from CT as well! Good luck with the restoration of the fish, I am in the process of doing the same to mine... I thought I recalled seeing the ad from your first post! Once your SF is up and going, (and mine too) maybe we can meet up and sail.
 
As far as the gudgeon: there are 4 bolts there. Please forgive my ignorance (as the amount of information out there is dizzying) but can’t I just unscrew those and slap the new gudgeon on? That would be preferred!
Sorry for all of the questions! Chris
Can you describe the bolts? Are the threads coarse or fine? Is there a head to it? Is the head hexagonal, slotted, or Phillips?

What I'm getting at, is that the existing bolts may be threaded into a pre-threaded metal backing plate already, and you CAN use them.

If they are sheet metal screws, you can sail on a temporary basis, but run the risk of losing the rudder and tiller through "misadventure".

(I have a lot of "misadventures"). :confused:

.
 
We are here for questions! What would be helpful is a picture of the transom so we can see what you are calling "bolts." Also is there a metal serial number plate on the mid deck or a 12 digit Hull ID Number (HIN) on the upper right transom, that would give us the year. And if the deck is original gelcoat, what is the stripe pattern on the bow, 2 stripes or 3?

There are no bolts with factory rudder systems, only wood screws into the deck and keel backer blocks with old style rudder system up to 1970,

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and then fine self threading machine screws into an internal metal backer plate with the new style 1971 and newer rudder. Your boat picture shows a new style rudder laying on the deck.

Internal gudgeon backer plate

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Gudgeon

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Fire away!

Cheers
Kent and Skipper
 
Here is a picture of the screws where the gudgeon was. I’ve also enclosed a closer picture of the fiberglass patch. What will be watertight and fairly unnoticeable after painting? If I sand that sucker down to smooth and apply new resin over it and then paint should we be good? What is acceptable with fiberglass? Should I not feel any of the texture of the fiber?
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That looks promising. If you can pull on those screws and they feel firm, you are in good shape. Install the new gudgeon with a small bit of marine sealant around the holes.

I'd sand the edges of that patch to makes sure it is mostly smooth. If you want the fiberglass weave to be smooth it might be better to put fairing compound over it and sand that. What you don't want to do is sand away the patch, unless you plan to repair it all over again. I don't think the fish will notice some fabric weave.

K
 
That looks promising. If you can pull on those screws and they feel firm, you are in good shape. Install the new gudgeon with a small bit of marine sealant around the holes. I'd sand the edges of that patch to makes sure it is mostly smooth. If you want the fiberglass weave to be smooth it might be better to put fairing compound over it and sand that. What you don't want to do is sand away the patch, unless you plan to repair it all over again. I don't think the fish will notice some fabric weave. K
The patch looks like a simple 2-inch-wide tape which was inadequately infused with resin and has eroded piecemeal from the "fixed" area of damage. :(

I'd sand all of the tape off, continuing sanding forward into the non-damaged keel, and run a new tape the full length of the keel to the bow. Of course, split the tape at the daggerboard, and fair as necessary. Maybe, instead, "double-up" the tape at the daggerboard well? Maybe run two lengths of tape for the few bucks extra it would cost? :cool:

Can't hoit—right? :)

The transom is very thin where those bolts are. I don't know what to make of it. :(
 
You guys are working way to hard to match gel coat. These boats were built with polyester resin, so polyester resin sticks as well as the OEM.
I would sand down that ugly patch a little and 1" beyond the crack I would sand all the gel coat to the start of the brown resin. Leave a valley where the gel coat starts. sand lightly for 2 inches outside the repair with 100 grit around the perimeter just enough to reveal clean gel coat.

Add 3 layers of 2" wide fiberglass tape to the structural area as needed and make them each a little longer than the last to feather the edge a little.
At this point it will look a little crude, don't worry about it and let it cure for an hour.

Next I mix a pseudo-gel coat by adding a very small amount of color tint to a batch of the same cheap polyester resin.
My personal mixing method is to add a very small amount of tint to the resin a little at a time until the color is almost white, but a very light hint of amber from the resin remains.
The resin cures harder than the tint, but using this mixture makes a very hard gel coat. Plan for 1/5 teaspoon of tint to 4 oz of resin, use less tint when possible.

Mix a 1/4 teaspoon of baby powder and mix the whole mess thoroughly before adding MEK_P (the little tube) . I add 2 drops more than the instructions say and mix well, keeping in mind that the mix will start getting chunky at the 2 min mark or less. Slop that stuff down fast and thick with an old credit card or bondo spreader 4mm thicker than needed and feather all the way out to the +2" sanded area. Neatness does not count.

In 1 hr, use 60 grit on a sanding block to shape the gel coat to 2 mm above level. The 100 grit to level and 320 to feather.

The result is a repair that most people couldn't find when looking at the hull 3 feet away and doesn't have any soft paint to scratch, although it can be painted if you want a different color on a top deck.

I have had great results with thin $9.00 Bondo brand fiberglass resin in the black can with real resin tint. A 2 oz bottle of tint is a lifetime supply.
 
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What you can get away with for fiberglass repair on a Sunfish and
the proper way to repair fiberglass are often wildly divergent. My
suggestion is to check the internet for correct methods of correct fiberglass
repair. Then you'll be able to make a informed decision as to how much of a effort
you want to put into it. Was you boat done correctly? Na, they just put
a band-aid over the cracks and gel-coat. If they used polyester resin you
can easily remove the band-aid with a heat gun and putty knife. Then
you can start from the beginning and decide what needs to be done.
Do a net search for 'Sunfish Shore Line Method.' It's a repair that's a
bit unique to the Sunfish but seems to work well.
 
Do we even know the patch needs repair? Light and Variable Winds has reached that conclusion but as far as I know he has nev r seen the boat!!
 
What you can get away with for fiberglass repair on a Sunfish and
the proper way to repair fiberglass are often wildly divergent.
^^^^^^
THIS
Personally I like a nice looking boat and don't get into duct tape, sheet hangers and lousy looking repairs. Yes, for the most part the Sunfish is an inexpensive boat, especially purchased used. But I kinda put "quick and dirty repairs", in the category....."well...I've got a small yard...why even bother mowing the grass?"
Doing professional looking gel repairs isn't rocket science, but there is a skill to it.
OH yeah..... a gelcoat match with a finish sanding with 320 on white, "might" escape scrutiny to some, but on a mirror like, black hull, it'll be the ugliest part of the boat. #320 grit isn't going to have ANY shine to it. More like a cloudy satin finish. White is MUCH more forgiving when doing repairs, as the gloss isn't as apparent as with darker colors. That said, there are an unlimited number of shades of white. With whites, I'll finish sand with 5-600 grit and buff on LOW with an rotary buffer and the "correct" buffing pad. On blacks, I might go as high as 1200 grit for sanding and a finer cut compound, to get out "swirl" marks. Matching a sheen can be as important as color. And... the higher the gloss, the better prep work will be required. Dips and valleys will now really stand out.

Tip... if you can't match the color great, but CLOSE... spray with a PreVal sprayer (or similar) and get it SMOOTH right off the bat. Thin it with acetone or whatever. I like Duratec, because you don't need to add wax or cover the repair from the air. THEN>>Don't sand the color...or VERY lightly at best...but spray an EQUALLY SMOOTH coat of clear over it. That way the "color" layer is "feathered" on the edges with the "overspray", and protected with the clear. Finding a clear, that doesn't add an amber tint to it is another discussion. Lightly sand and buff and cross your fingers.

Glitter gel and sparkle....hhhmmm ;-D.
 
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I've always though of the Sunfish as the premier "Fiberglass
Repair Trainer." Perfect for building you're repair skills to
move up to repairing more expensive boats you'll own in
the future. The hardest part to figure out it that gel-coat is
not 'self leveling' due to being a epoxy. The Preval Spray sure
sounds like a good alternative for anyone that's bricked
a spray gun after exceeding the 20 minute gel-coat working
time. I've yet to find a use for a bricked gun, can't even make
it into a table lamp.
 
I've sprayed entire dingys with Prevals. Using them for close to 3 decades, has made me comfortable to use. Then you throw away the power unit in most cases, instead of wasting acetone to clean it. For larger projects with a gun, I prefer paint...like Awlcraft, which can be sprayed in misty, 50 degree weather and sanded/buffed, unlike it's cousin Awlgrip. The clear coat in Awlgrip rises to the top in curing, whereas Awlcraft is pigment thruout. Both 20 yr paints.
 
I've always though of the Sunfish as the premier "Fiberglass
Repair Trainer." Perfect for building you're repair skills to
move up to repairing more expensive boats you'll own in
the future.
I must be doing things backwards, as I've had a variety of cruising, keel boats and now have gravitated to my two fish and Puffer, loving the heck out of them. ...especially the Sunfish. Once at a launch, I can be sailing 5 minutes later while cleaning, washing, waxing takes minutes, versus...too much time!
I don't know.... I look at the 40 ft Hunters and Beneteaus and actually work on them for a living...but they're a maintenance pit. Not to mention $$ if something needs repair or replacement. Dang, a new furling jib is about the cost of 2-3 Sunfish (used of course!) Oh...yeah... give me 10 knts of wind...I'll be passing those puppies in my "kiddie, camp boat" :-D
 
I think Emperor Caligilua got it right with the worlds ultimate party barge. Built is mega
lavish, mega huge, put it in a lake just slightly larger and design it with the intent of never going
anywhere for it's entire existence. The last part is sort of a 'I have arrived' statement. Oh,
and fund the construction with public taxes.
 
Having seen patches on my six Sunfish, I can only speak for myself—especially regarding the last OP photo. :eek:

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The other patches don't look too bad, but this keel definitely needs help. :oops:

Once I've gathered all my epoxy "fixings", it doesn't take too much of my time (or cost) to set additional lengths of 2" fiberglass tape and to attack the other—possibly defective—patches.

I've just been advised by my fiberglass guru to grind out the black veins, grind it smooth, lay down 6", 4", then 2" ten-ounce strips to "spread out the load". (Avoid "steps" between the 6/4/2 to avoid the "stress-riser" at the edge).

I like reinforcing the keel, as frequently, the keel is the first part of the boat to see "injury". One winter, a steel cable "let go". It was holding the stern down, and that same wind tossed the Sunfish against a dock post, fracturing the (stock) keel.

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As the lake gets lower in late Summer, my Sunfish has to be pulled up daily over the edge of a wood dock board. Old repairs are stressed, to cause leaks which could eventually make the Sunfish heavy. (Again). :(

.
 
^^^^^^


Doing professional looking gel repairs isn't rocket science, but there is a skill to it.
OH yeah..... a gelcoat match with a finish sanding with 320 on white, "might" escape scrutiny to some, but on a mirror like, black hull, it'll be the ugliest part of the boat. #320 grit isn't going to have ANY shine to it. More like a cloudy satin finish. White is MUCH more forgiving when doing repairs, as the gloss isn't as apparent as with darker colors. That said, there are an unlimited number of shades of white. With whites, I'll finish sand with 5-600 grit and buff on LOW with an rotary buffer and the "correct" buffing pad. On blacks, I might go as high as 1200 grit for sanding and a finer cut compound, to get out "swirl" marks. Matching a sheen can be as important as color. And... the higher the gloss, the better prep work will be required. Dips and valleys will now really stand out.
It's very rare to see a gloss finish on a hull from the mid 1970's after they have been dragged through the sands a few dozen times and stored upside down a few years. The 320 grit blends with the naturally aged 70's hull perfectly. If you wet sand with 1200 grit and buff with buffing compound, you really need to to buff the whole 14'.
 
You're blending the gloss level (none) and probably not much after that...color, shape etc.
Bottom sides I don't worry too much, except for yearly repairs and buffing. Ugly, mismatched topside and cockpit repairs are usually just that, when aesthetics is 2nd on the list.
Buffing an entire Sunfish hull takes me less than an hour, excluding repairs.
 
When your grinding your aim is to stop the further
propagation of the cracks. The stress at the ends of
the cracks causes further propagation. If you're not
going to remove the damaged area you might consider
drilling 'stop holes' at the end of each crack as we do
in sheet metal. Removing the entire damaged area
is the proper way but is often extra work for a Sunfish.
I've often encapsulated the damage by applying fiberglass
to both sides. With the picture of the crack running 90 degrees
to the keel, this is the worst. It's going to take removal of
the damaged area or heavy encapsulation as the boat
is suffering from a 'broken back.'
 
Yes, that 90 degree fracture had me grinding away about a foot all around the break. That exposed a crumbling "backbone", which was reinforced underneath, and built up on top.
 

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