My Laser hull restoration review

tsameti

New Member
Hi everyone, this is my first post on the forum.

Today I decided that I might need some help from experts to give me advices on how to repair the hull that was badly scratched, I would say abused by the previous owner of the boat.
HsMQD.jpg

You can probably see how deep are the scratches on the hull
jstaN.jpg


I bought my laser interstate, yes it was a 12 hour drive but the boat seemed nice and it came with both trailer and a dolly which was quite a good deal for me. After 12 hour driving when I parked my boat at home and gave it a quick inspection if anything was damaged, I found that gunwale was split. I didnt worry much about that, simply grinded with dremel and the next day got Sikaflex 291 marine. repair took couple of hours and after it dried I took to the beach for a test sail. When I returned home, there was some water inside the boat so that meant it wasnt the only hole in the boat. I used my air compressor, connected it to transom bung, presurized the boat and used soapy water to detect air leakage. Looked like some of the previous repairs werent done profesionaly (I will attach all the photos) and air was siping through them plus couple of bolts needed Sikaflex.
0SCUf.jpg

Whoever did this couldnt even be bothered cleaning the gunwale out but poured epoxy directly.
Before and
MTxs.jpg

After Dremel.
Picture below shows another great work of the previous repair.
0YOnF.jpg


After the repair was done, I thought why not refresh the hull itself and apply a layer of flowcoat.
I read some articles about it and assumed it can be done. I ordered white flowcoat, got a couple of quality brushes and while waiting for the delivery sanded the hull down to the point where all deep scratches were almost gone. I have a good respirator, I bought a new paint filter, put my safety glasses on and I used my old shirt and pants so they can go directly into the bin after the project is done.

During sanding down process. On the left side you can still see the scratches.
LJXrK.jpg


I knew it would be hard to apply a flowcoat so I prepaired myself to the worse but I wasnt expecting so much trouble. Flowcoat sets off quickly so I had scales ready to weigh flowcoat and to weigh hardener in small quantities so I dont have to throw the mixture away. I mixed 500gr at a time and it was too much, at the end flowcoat hardened and I had to change the mixing pot and a brush. I applied one coat, sanded it down and applied one more coat. Using the brush is probably the best you can do as roller didnt work at all but even a good brush left marks. Thats where my problem is lying now. Today I tried to sand it down to the level where I cant see brush marks but it takes a long time as Im using 400-800-1200 grit papers and trying to be as careful as possible. I havent done much today, only tested on a little patch with sand paper and buffing compound and it looks good but Im worried it wont be the same along the whole boat.


After I applied the first coat and sanded it down for a second layer.
yPJao.jpg


Application of the first layer with roller, not a good idea at all.
2hL7H.jpg



B6VI.jpg

I will take photos of the hull after I applied a second layer tomorrow and upload it.



So now my question is should I use flowcoat again to raise the level after I send it down to make surface sticky for a new coat or should I sanded it down and use 2 pack Poleurethane paint which wont leave any marks.

Thank you and sorry for a long story, just wanted to share it, could be useful for the begginers like me.
 
Might be a language or product difference, but it sounds like what you call flowcoat is what others call gelcoat. At least the results you are showing and describing are the same..

flowcoat/gelcoat will give you a harder surface (less prone to light scratches) then 2 pack poly paint. But to get flowcoat/gelcoat to look the same (shiny) will take a lot more time/work as you are finding out.

If you think you have enough thickness of flowcoat already applied, if it were me, I wouldn't bother with another coat, I would just start the sanding process. If you can get your hands on a air powered straight sander, it would really speed up the sanding time.

upload_2014-5-15_15-57-5.jpeg
 
If you haven't read this, it's worth the 5 minutes, might give you some tips you haven't thought off
http://www.schrothfiberglass.com/lasermaint.htm#How To Make Your Bottom Pretty

Thanks for your link.


Heres what I got of ebay.

http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/151247981926?ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1423.l2649

The difference between gelcoat and a flowcoat/topcoat is that flowcoat has wax addition and it is used as last layer.


http://www.worldseafishing.com/foru...hats-difference-between-flowcoat-gelcoat.html
 
Good to see you are so committed to bringing the old girl back up to standard.

Where you at Tsameti?

(Im in Sydney - always looking for more sailors down at Kogarah Bay SC...)
 
Good to see you are so committed to bringing the old girl back up to standard.

Where you at Tsameti?

(Im in Sydney - always looking for more sailors down at Kogarah Bay SC...)

Yeah at this time of the year not many people sail so thought it wouldnt hurt to work on the boat a bit.

Never would have thought I will see anyone from Aus on this forum.

Im in Melbs, joining SYC once the boat is ready. Havent sailed since 2002, hoping to get in shape and compete on a national level.

Cheers.
 
A Mexican eh.... As for Aussies on here, there seems to be a few. What would a sailing forum be without us? Pretty gay I would think...

Yeah, it pays to be in shape.

Im in shape - nice and round. Haha.

Have fun.
 
Ok, So today I started sanding it down to make surface smoother, took me a while. I havent finished yet but using 120 grit makes job faster. At some places on the hull even though I was careful it appears that I didnt apply enough flowcoat and now I can see the previous paint which was a bit darker. I have a dilemma here, should I apply a flowcoat and cover up dark spots or should I go for a 2 pack poleurethane and paint it completely.
Here are some photos of the boat after sanding.
You can see on the photo a dark spot in the middle, thin layer of flowcoat.
ZulNd.jpg

Thats after I sand it down a little bit but you can see that brushing wasnt the best choice or could be that my painting skills are very poor. :(
BRvmA.jpg

On this photo I havent touched paint yet. I might need to get in touch with flowcoat supplier and ask if it can be thined so its possible to use a brush and not leave such a deep marks.
37XK.jpg


FmuT2.jpg


Work has been done for tonight.


Any ideas pals?
 
Hi tsameti.
Its still warm here in qld, going sailing in the laser this arvo.

You have taken on a big job by the looks of it, I recently repainted my 76 laser using Toplac, rolled and tip it, came up pretty good.
Went from this

To this


Scotty
 
There are additives you can use that make gel/flowcoat thinner, which helps it flow out when brushing (or when spraying) such as styrene, in the US another popular additive is Duratec, but it will never come out as smooth as a good paint job
 
My old boat is also done in toplac, 4 years later and I'm only going to touch up a few small areas on the deck where the cover and ropes have rubbed, I'm very impressed with it especially on the bottom.
 
Did you use just the paint or did you buy primer as well, considering I have stripped a good layer of flowcoat, paint should adhere pretty nicely.
 
Tasmeti, my laser, now blue was previously painted at least twice before I got it.

I could have just sanded and faired the surface and then just topcoated, but I chose to undercoat then apply a top coat,

Only thing I should have done was add some of the blue to the undercoat to make it easier to cover.
Had to apply 3 coats with a sand inbetween to get a reasonable coverage

Scotty
 
I just got 2 pack polyurethane (white color), norglass brand plus spraying thinner as I will try to spray the boat. Any tips on that? Wanna finish sanding the boat today clean it and tomorrow arvo will be spray painting it. Weather is alright 17-21.
 
Sorry mate, i have no tips for spray 2 pac poly, i rolled and tipped my laser.

Do google search or search on this forum for some advice might be the way to go.

And make sure you have your oh&s and ppe right, pretty sure you dont want be breathing that stuff
 
We call 2pack 'rocket fuel' ...cos it goes off like a rocket when sprayed, particularly in your warmer weather you might find it going off in the gun !
Good idea would be just to do very small quantities at a time.
Third props for toplac btw...better on our hulls than perfection ( 2pack ). Like Stevo done, thinned out with thinners no 3 and rolled then tipped, hard to beat.

I read that you 'repaired ' the gunnel with sikaflex - hand palms face and rolls eyes !
Pressure testing your hull like you did you may have kinda done the boat some favours but it's risky...the bonding goo is very thin and brittle, expanded outwards away from it's designed grip may well have opened up some weak spots, which is cool if you're prepared to repair them ( not with sikaflex though lolz ).

For rubbing out the paint stripes in the gelcoat, well there's only one remedy - it's called elbow grease, universally available and best effect is when used with a rubber backing pad and 320 grit & some soapy water.

Kudos for bothering with the ol' girl, many wouldn't but she & I are glad you are.

( totally worth buying yourself some epoxy kit and cloth tape and some solvent -acetone- and going back, dremelling away the crap and doing the job properly )
 
If you think you have enough thickness of flowcoat already applied, if it were me, I wouldn't bother with another coat, I would just start the sanding process. If you can get your hands on a air powered straight sander, it would really speed up the sanding time.

If it's speed you need and don't have a compressor, but still need to wet sand....mebbe try gaffer taping the vacuum holes on your regular sander and using it lightly with 800 grit
 
We call 2pack 'rocket fuel' ...cos it goes off like a rocket when sprayed, particularly in your warmer weather you might find it going off in the gun !
Good idea would be just to do very small quantities at a time.
Third props for toplac btw...better on our hulls than perfection ( 2pack ). Like Stevo done, thinned out with thinners no 3 and rolled then tipped, hard to beat.

I read that you 'repaired ' the gunnel with sikaflex - hand palms face and rolls eyes !
Pressure testing your hull like you did you may have kinda done the boat some favours but it's risky...the bonding goo is very thin and brittle, expanded outwards away from it's designed grip may well have opened up some weak spots, which is cool if you're prepared to repair them ( not with sikaflex though lolz ).

For rubbing out the paint stripes in the gelcoat, well there's only one remedy - it's called elbow grease, universally available and best effect is when used with a rubber backing pad and 320 grit & some soapy water.

Kudos for bothering with the ol' girl, many wouldn't but she & I are glad you are.

( totally worth buying yourself some epoxy kit and cloth tape and some solvent -acetone- and going back, dremelling away the crap and doing the job properly )


Thanks for your reply and for explaining how to repair the boat.

I finished sanding last night and tried using various tools to smooth the surface. Sander and polisher with 120 grit ruined flowcoat layer at couple of places so I had to slow down and use orbital sheet sander with 80grit, which was making alot of noise so I had to be careful not to annoy neighbours. So I sanded with sandpaper on the sanding block.

Today I went back to the paint shop and after talking to a specialist he said it should be ok to apply 2 pack without primer.
Got all the painting tools and heres the result after an hour.
6XzAI.jpg


kNtcV.jpg


This is the first coat. Will need to apply one more after 18 hours after a very light sanding.

So here are some questions again. :)

1. I was worried that the 1L of paint wont be enough but I ended up using only 1/4 of it. Should I apply one thick coat or should I apply 2 more coats and sand it in between?

2. Are you saying sikaflex will not be able to hold gunvales and will split again?
What are you suggesting instead? epoxy and fibreglass? When I was a kid my old laser had same issues and my coach told me to use epoxy with fibreglass and use rivets for strenght.
 
Hey tasmeti, that job looks sweet.

So you rolled and tipped 2 pac? Did it go off quick?

I would sand between coats and apply 2 more coats to get it really smooth. Actually this really depends on how good the paint has covered and weather you are going to sand with 1200 grit and polish to a shine, or leave as is. Your call.
I had no choice because i forgot to add some blue colour to the undercoat, and when i sanded the white undercoat showed through, so applyed another coat to cover.

Steve
 
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Hey tasmeti, that job looks sweet.

So you rolled and tipped 2 pac? Did it go off quick

I would sand between coats and apply 2 more coats to get it really smooth.

Steve


Yeah I did roll and tip 2 pack and I had enough time to paint the boat in one go. I was expecting to use 500ml on the first coat and have 800ml left for the last coat but only used about 350ml so Im guessing I will have 2 more coats and sand it lightly between coats. I hope it turns out well.

Has anyone had waterline done on Laser? Whats the easiest way to paint it?
 
I recently re painted voodoo, used toplac and roller but first coat was 20 % toplac / 80 % thinners - used syringes for accuracy 120ml per mix which did the whole hull...left to set then wet sanded.
Once with 800 in one direction then 1000 at right angle then finally with 2000 bow to stern.
Next coat was 50/50 and again left then wet sanded as above. 120ml. Rolled and tipped.
Final coat was 80% paint 20% thinners.
Wet sanded as above but this time went further still and went over with 2500 g paper, wiped clean and buffed with a machine with wool bonnet with plain old t cut....like black glass !

What I'm getting at here is the process was laborious but thorough and I reckon there's only about 200ml of actual paint on the hull.

Meant to add earlier but it's too late for you now - better for you to use a squeegee or old bank card to apply gelcoat rather than brush - no lines, no mountains to sand back.
Using power tools is great n all but it's so easy to strike through, wet sanding by hand is the way to go ( neighbours won't hate you ) and you really do get to know every inch of your boat.

Well done though, nice effort, no more beach rash
 
That looks great, I didn't paint mine, the presvious owner did, but I've a few touch usp to do and won't be using undercoat
 
're gunnels- you need something that dries solid and bonds to the existing material, I'd use some sort of epoxy/fibreglass filler, hold the two sides together with a clamp with cardboard against the boat to protect it and distribute the force a bit
 
Yesterday I've applied second coat of the 2 pack polyurethane but beforehand I called manufacturer as paint was dry to touch but not dry enough to sand it. He said its fine to apply another coat unless its been 48 hour gap. Now I will need to wait till tomorrow to be able to sand it and only than apply third coat. On my question if I should sand it before I polish it, his reply was: You shouldnt sand it, just polish it.
To me it seems a bit weird but, he should know better than me. I cleaned my garage today to make sure theres minimum dust flying in the air tomorrow.
stYfm.jpg

5fZc6.jpg

8Z1du.jpg



I will probably hold on for some time before I fix gunnels, as I desperately want to sail. Plus my car gets really jealous for not being parked inside the garage.


Thanks for the support and good advices.
 
You might wanna cover the rear cross member on your dolly so that your nice new paint job doesn't get scratched up first time out... Take a trip to Clark Rubber...
 
Also wanted to recommend http://laserdirect.com.au/store/

these guys are in SA, (Im in Sydney) but I buy all my genuine Laser stuff through them. PSA, (who would have built your boat) are in NSW, but their online shop is crappy - cant do freight at time of checkout. Defeats the purpose I think...

anyways, Andrew at Laser Direct is very helpful....
 
You might wanna cover the rear cross member on your dolly so that your nice new paint job doesn't get scratched up first time out... Take a trip to Clark Rubber...


Which part exactly are you talking about and do you know what should I ask for at Clark Rubber?

Gunnels used to be resting on the dolly but after they split I decided to modify my dolly and installed Ratchet strap so now laser is laying on the strap. I also installed trolley wheels at the rear section in case the boat accidentally touches the dolly while pulling it up from the water. Timber plank on the dolly helps support the middle part of laser.
 
I was referring to the rear cross member, and was just suggesting some black tube rubber. Cut it down the centre and slip it on. Looking at the pic again, now I see the trolley wheels you mention - Are they attached to the trailer or the dolley?
 
The 2 pack will form its own gloss yeah, but if you are left with orange peel ( dimples, hills and valleys ) and it's not quite cutting the mustard for ya, the only way is patient wet sanding....
Has it come out beautifully flat ?
 
I was referring to the rear cross member, and was just suggesting some black tube rubber. Cut it down the centre and slip it on. Looking at the pic again, now I see the trolley wheels you mention - Are they attached to the trailer or the dolley?

I went to Reece today but they had nothing, will go tomorrow to Clark's rubber. Wheels are attached to the dolley and a carpet piece to protect from bare aluminium touching the hull.

The 2 pack will form its own gloss yeah, but if you are left with orange peel ( dimples, hills and valleys ) and it's not quite cutting the mustard for ya, the only way is patient wet sanding....
Has it come out beautifully flat ?

It's not top notch surface yet but hoping that sanding and third layer of PU will make it glass like. I will take close ups when done and you can tell me what do you think, as distance shoots hide all the imperfections.
 
Cool beans....
don't mean to sound obvious but when mixing the blend, are you mixing slow and steady and allowing time for air bubbles to rise before rollering ?
It's a right bastard when you've done a decent job bar the odd crater from bubble pop.
 
Cool beans....
don't mean to sound obvious but when mixing the blend, are you mixing slow and steady and allowing time for air bubbles to rise before rollering ?
It's a right bastard when you've done a decent job bar the odd crater from bubble pop.

So that's why it was written in the instruction to let it settle for 10 minutes so bubbles can arise to the top, thankfully I followed what was written.

Voodoo do you fix boats for a job? Your knowledge about all this stuff is impressive.

I regret I didn't call up flowcoat supplier before painting it could have saved me a week of my trouble and money and it would be much better surface protection but I guess you learn mainly from your mistakes.
 
Try and be philosophical about it all =).
Well you now have double protection - the gelcoat and the poly paint.
You also have broadened your experience - can't baulk at that !
The time you spent on your hull you will be rewarded for - karma an all that.

If you have access to a buffer ( rather than a machine polisher - very aggressive ) I'd still recommend going over your final coat with either talc or t cut or meguires or G3 on the bonnet. But if you were to, I'd leave it for several days to really let that final coat harden and breathe, go sail her, do it next week kind of thing.

Once again good on yer for the rejuve....
 
After almost 2 weeks of trouble and spending most of my free time in the garage, its finanaly done.
Third layer of the paint was applied last night after I got home from work. I had my garage heating on plus one more electric heater and a power lamp to make sure RH is below 75% and temperature more than 20C.
I was a bit worried that PU paint might set off quickly so I had to devided in two batches.
Its not perfect but for the time being it should be enough, I will give paint a month to dry and give it a good polish afterwards.
To cut it short, heres the result.
vrc2a.jpg

gpNuU.jpg

mrKAp.jpg


Btw Voodoo, I was looking at the polishing things you recomended and accidentaly found these ones in suggestions
After almost 2 weeks of trouble and spending most of my free time in the garage, its finanaly done.
Third layer of the paint was applied last night after I got home from work. I had my garage heating on plus one more electric heater and a power lamp to make sure RH is below 75% and temperature more than 20C.
I was a bit worried that PU paint might set off quickly so I had to devided in two batches.
Its not perfect but for the time being it should be enough, I will give paint a month to dry and give it a good polish afterwards.
To cut it short, heres the result.
vrc2a.jpg

gpNuU.jpg

mrKAp.jpg


Btw Voodoo, I was looking at the polishing things you recomended and accidentaly found this one in suggestions on Ebay

Farecla Marine

Do you think car polish would be better?
 
What a job !
It's a million miles away from that beach rashed bit of plastic it was last week..
You happy with the finish ?
Don't wanna piss on your bonfire but in the last pic, the reflection of the trailer shows orange peel.
You could leave it at that, sail her and be happy.
You could also do the final stages that will last for another bunch of years.

In the world of perfecto, if you wanted to keep going it'll take five more wet sanding sessions, then the buffing process to bring back the mirror gloss.
It's just a matter of flattening the paint with the successive grits, 800, 1000, 1500, 2000, 2500.
It's daunting when you have a half decent job and are just about to take a bit of sandpaper to it, understandable - but keep in mind the mirror finish after the buff with talc or cutting paste later

The link to the farecla - well, the rubbing compound is the same (same company, google farecla g3) and is a great compound which will, even by hand and cloth 'remove' very light scratches ( 2000 g and above, 1500 and below are a bit deeper and the loss of surrounding paint/ gelcoat will stress you out in trying to bring the surround down to level ).

To wax or not to wax ? Bit a personal thing.
I don't no need to, your hull is slippery enough.
I've seen guys polishing their hulls with resin polish but all it's doing is filling in the micro gaps in the surface and gets washed out straight away anyway.

Me ? I'd stick with the final cutting compound then wool bonnet buff to gloss.
 

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