anything but a strict one design sail

Steven

New Member
After many years of an older sail (circ 1988) I bought a new sail this year and after all the talk of Hyde vs North, I decided to spend the extra $85 and get the Hyde and be done with it. This way there was no second thinking or people telling me I should have got this or should have got that....it is only money anyways and better safe than sorry.

The problem is that when I used it for the first time in a regatta this past weekend the new sail was horrible. It was very windy 15-20 and I could not depower it and was more bagged out than my old sail. The problem is that I could not crank on the cunningham and it bunches up around the gooseneck with nowhere to go.

Once on shore, I laid the 2 sails over each other and the older sail was 2 inches shorter in height. When I compared it to a brand new North bought by a friend this year from the same place, it too was at least a full inch shorter than my Hyde and none of the seams matched up either.

If I went to a serious regatta and they measured my sail, mine would not be spec as it is larger.

What is going on here...I thought that this was a strict one design??? Now I have a full rig sail that is bigger than everyone else's but unable to be de-powered.

Do I have a case here for a replacement?

By the way, for all the talk that the cloth is the same, it is not, the Hyde feels stiffer and thicker and is a creamier colour than the North which is a brighter white
 
half the fleet at serious regattas would be dsq'ed because of bad sail measurement which is why they dont measure lasers sails, the red button shows that it is an authentic laser sail

on a new sail, the cunningham is always going to be hard to crank on because the cloth hasnt had any use

not sure why you used a brand new sail in 15-20 either
 
Was not my plan to use the sail in those winds, the day started very light and was expecting 8-10 max. The wind kept building as they day progressed.

I understand that any new sail the cunningham would be hard to crank however it is bunched up at the gooseneck with very minimal tension to begin with
 
Steven,
a month ago, I got a rolled Hyde from 2004, only used for about one week of pro-racing, form a GER-pro. So, I guess, we could start a try to compare the measurements of our sails, if you want. Send me (via PM) your measures (length) of the Luff, the keech and the lower side of the sail. I go and compare it to mine. Important is the aspect, if the sail-measures do not follow the measurement diagrams (that you f.e. find somewhere at the ILCA-Website in the chapter "rules").
As long the sail is "original builder supplied" and follows correct to the measurement diagrams (= are class-legal) they are allowed to race with them.

From the TLF-discussions (~ summer 2004) about "wearing in" a new sail, it needs time to make a new sail to a fast one. The new sails (here: Hyde) do not look very pretty if they are new. F.e.: see the races of Athen´s 2004 (where the big pro´s all use new boats with new sails) there the sails have folds that go from the "boom-end"-edge to the mid of the luff side, and the leech flutters between the short and the lower battenpocket. Most of this goes away with correct "wearing in".

Ciao
LooserLu
P.S: I have 4 (orig. build. suppl.) std.-sails: one from the late seventies (Hyde or Harstick), one (that is not often used) from the mid of the 80ties (a Harstick "compucut"), one from 2001 (Hyde, 3,8oz) and one from 2004 (Hyde, 3,8oz, rolled). They all have different measures to each other... that´s "normal"-live in the "Laserland", I guesss ;-)
 
In random order:

The cloth used is NOT the same for the North and Hyde sails. Hyde uses cloth supplied by Contender and North uses their own cloth. There is a range of stretch aka "specs" that each sailmaker's cloth has to be within in order to be used. The range (class determined) IMHO is too wide and can lead sails built at either end of the range with completely different performance. You can manipulate the specs of the cloth somwhat by the amount of resin used in finishing the cloth (ie why some cloth feels "stiffer" or firmer then others)

If a sail has a loose leech at the beginning of it's life, it's not going to go away or flutter less as time goes by, it will only get worse..

Comparing a new sail to an old sail will never yield the same measurement. You need to compare new to new and they need to be tensioned exactly the same when comparing.

As far as one sail being out of spec measurment wise, it does happen (made by humans after all) , but it's supposed to be caught at the QC stage of manufacturing and not get a red button and not be sold. Again, it's humans checking at the QC stage though....

If it were me, I would take the sail back to the dealer, explain as you have done here and see if he will lay the sail on a couple of other new sails, tensioned the same. If it is consistantly longer on the luff then the others and the seams don't line up, then you have a strong case to ask for a replacment.

There are other posts in the forum that explain break-in procedures. If you want the best performing sail with a longer life, follow it. It does make a difference.

PS They don't measure sails in the traditional sense, but they will check to make sure the luff tube hasn't been moved (to change the luff curve) and they will check to make sure the seams haven't been adjusted (to reduce leech flutter for example)
 

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