XD clew hook vs. tied block

Discussion in 'Laser Talk' started by PatHo, Mar 15, 2010.

  1. PatHo

    PatHo New Member

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    [FONT=&quot]Bought myself a nifty ’88 Laser which came along with XD rigging. After years on shore and unacquainted with this type of rigging, I went straight into the Sunday’s club race, which – as you can imagine – did not work out as anticipated. Especially the clew hook lost its hold on the sail, and went diving together with its associated block. Anyway I won’t miss the daft implement, as it’s impossible to fit once afloat. Rest of the day I carried on traditionally rigged. Nevertheless this easily adjustable XD outhaul with its bungee seems quite neat, so I’d like to try it again later on. Can I secure the block on the clew with a small line, or is the hook there for some obscure reason other than inconvenience?[/FONT]
     
  2. LooserLu

    LooserLu LooserLu

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    Hi.

    There is no need for a small line to secure the hook. Just rig the hook correct, than it doesn't switch off unexpected.

    APS, one of the sponsors of TLF, has photos how to rig a Laser. View photo #60 at page 5 (of 8) of the Laser Hull Number 194027 at this link:
    http://www.apsltd.com/c-2262-laserboatphotosforreference.aspx#

    Here are two related nice old threads at TLF about the Harken clew hook. The website to "DorsalGear", mentioned in one that threads, is offline. Perhaps another TLF member is able to post one photo of the DorsalGear-Outhaul.

    http://www.laserforum.org/showthread.php?t=4333

    http://www.laserforum.org/showthread.php?t=2654



    P.S.: I switched from the Harken Clew hook to the Harken Clew Sleeve in strong winds. In lower winds I use a suitable halyard shackle instead of the Harken clew hook (view photo below. The red line/rope on the photo has no meaning. Just think it is not there).


    Ciao
    LooserLu
     

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  3. harpo

    harpo Member

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    Mine is rigged per the instructions and still managed to come undone in fairly routine capsize on Sunday:

    1. I capsized to windward and managed to end up high-and-dry on the centerboard, but with the clew of the sail up high in the air, sail still full of breeze.
    2. Yanked hard on the mainsheet to get the sail down into the water so the boat would right itself.
    3. Boat came up, clew detached -- I suspect when the boom hit the water.

    There weren't a ton of obvious recovery scenarios. In the swell (did I mention this was near the Golden Gate Bridge on a big ebb tide) the boat wanted to turtle; I figured I'd let it do so and then swim underneath.

    Eventually the race committee came along and ... suggested ... I might want some assistance. Last race in the race in the regatta and I wasn't exactly winning anyway, so I accepted.

    But this is now making me wonder if I want to continue sailing with the clew hook.
     
  4. PatHo

    PatHo New Member

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    Ahoy LooserLu,

    Wow that's tons intelligence just on the clew of a Laser. Fitted an old fashioned shackle on a block recovered from the cunningham (will rig that traditionally instead) and in my opinion the whole contraption look far more sturdier now. As far as the XD vang is concerned no complaints whatsoever, as it makes controlling the boom angle really easy. In the end happy with XD kit, but feel sorry for losing the hook, as I could have used it for fishing.
     
  5. Merrily

    Merrily Administrator Staff Member

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    :confused: That would be for a heck of a big fish, :eek: but you are probably joking. ;)
     
  6. LooserLu

    LooserLu LooserLu

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    harpo,
    in my opinion, the "Harken Clew Hook" and the hook used at the "Harken Clew Sleeve" are brothers, but not twin brothers. Both have the same problems: with unexpected detach.
    At the Harken Clew Sleeve, the hook has been optimized in that way, that now the unexpected detach do not happen, if rigged 100% correct.

    The Harken Clew Hook has to be rigged tight to the boom and tight to the velcro clew strap, exact like at the setup of "DorsalGear" - outhaul control system (from that unfortunately I have no photo of ...). In this way rigged, the Harken Clew Hook (that has a slight different bend than the hook at the actual hook of the Harken Clew Sleeve) is trustful.
    I felt the disadvantage of "not easy to rig" this Harken Clew Hook in strong winds. So, a while ago, I switched to the Harken Clew Sleeve.

    In lower winds, rigging the clew to tight to the boom for me not is the optimal trim of the sail (others may thing different in this point of view). So, I let go the Harken Clew Hook in retirement forever.
    I got the idea of using the halyard shackle many years ago from hints here at TLF of active Laserites sailing at Laser fleets at "SF Bay" (I guess thats the sound of the famous Golden Gate Bridge :) :) ) and later of a Canadian of Edmonton, who optimized the setup for the outhaul control system at his Laser for the Worlds at Fortaleza/BRA and posted a link to some photos at TLF.

    Conclusion: Better follow the way to rig the cheap halyard shackle (instead of the more expensive Harken Clew Hook) like many of your neighbour Laserites at SF already do. They know what they do. Drink a beer in honor to SF-Bay-Laserites from what you save by using the halyard shackle instead of the pricey Harken Clew Hook. ;)

    @Merrily
    Never underrate the size of the unknown fishes that dive in the North Sea at the coast of Belgium (at the south of delta of the river Rhine). Those fishes there of course are not big swordfishes, big tuna or white sharkes, but ... ;)
    Not a bad idea to have a Harken Clew Hook on a rope, somewhere diving behind the Laser's transom to catch a nice meal for dinner :) :)

    A votre santé
    LooserLu
     
  7. Scott B

    Scott B Member

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    I think the clew hook sold by itself is the same as the one sold with the clew sleeve - today.

    Originally, the clew hook had a much smaller/shorter "tail" on the hook (I have that one, and it detached regularly!) I have replaced with a newer model, and have not had any unexpected detachments.

    Before completely stopping use of a clew hook, you might want to do a side by side comparison of a new hook to your old one - perhaps you will find they are different.

    Of course, nothing is as secure as the Velcro strap and halyard shackle!
     
  8. PatHo

    PatHo New Member

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    Well ... until a couple of decennia ago, fishermen on the North Sea still caught sea mines from World War II in their nets (good German quality too). Now only the odd shrimp or cod survives in this busy traffic lane due to overfishing and climat change.

    Meanwhile on my thrilling Laser, I discovered to my detriment that you can't hop around that easily, so for me personally solid and safe fixture of all lines and fittings aboard is more important than convenience.

    Of course I realise it's a class of its own, with a following much more experience compared to myself, so I am very glad and grateful being offered so many answers, which immediately have been put into practice. Thanks a lot for getting me off the hook.

    Happy sailing !!!
     
  9. Webmuppet

    Webmuppet New Member

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    I tried the Harken 'hook' and also the Harken boom slider assembly / device - I subsequently found out that the eye / cringle on the Rooster 8.1 sail was slightly fatter than the one on a standard sail and that it didn't locate securely when I used that rig. In the end I attached a spring loaded Holt hook (see attached pic) to a 16mm Harken block and it works very well indeed in conjunction with a velcro strap. It works for me anyway !

    Nigel
     

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  10. LooserLu

    LooserLu LooserLu

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    To complete it all here, I have in attachment some photos and the instruction sheet of the old Harken Clew Hook. There on my photo, you find the new optimized hook for the Harken Clew Sleeve and (my own) old Harken Clew Hook. I think so, Scott, that the new Harken Clew Hook now looks different today, compared to my old Harken Clew Hook of 2003. If someone of TLF is able to add a photo of the actual sold version of the Harken Clew Hook, that wold be great.

    @PatHo:
    ;) Have Fun and
    if you perhaps understand German a bit, we also have some nice infos how to optimize your Laser cheap under the headline "Handbook and Mauals -> "here"
     

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  11. Scott B

    Scott B Member

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    Your first picture shows the 2 clew hooks I have, the older, shorter one on the bottom, and recently purchased (2008?) one on the top.

    I bought my new hook by itself (not with the clew sleeve) - I think the hook is the same, with or without the clew sleeve.
     
  12. Merrily

    Merrily Administrator Staff Member

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    Actually, the hook on the clew sleeve has a slightly different curve. The proto-type model that I gifted to LooserLu has a hook that is the same as those used alone. The one change to the final model in use now was a small change to the hook.
     
  13. LooserLu

    LooserLu LooserLu

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    Merrily, the hook of the prototype of the Harken Clew Sleeve is not on the photo at my reply above. On my photo is the old Harken Clew Hook (, sold up to ~2007). and above this hook one views to the new optimized hook for the Harken Clew Sleeve. This hook, on that photo, I took from a class legal actual purchased Harken Clew Sleeve (I only would use this official sleeve for official races, where measurers not permit me to use the prototype).

    If Scott is true, ACTUALLY there is only 1 design for the hook at the Clew (no matter if in use alone as "Harken Clew Hook" or if in use togehter with the "Harken Clew Sleeve").

    As the prototype hook for the Harken Clew Sleeve is concerned: This hook is not the same like the old Harken Clew hook. The length of the end of the old Harken Clew Hook is less compared to related lenght of the protoype-hook for the Harken Clew Hook. I here attach a photo of the prototype-hook and of the old Harken Clew Hook. I am happy to have the prototype Harken Clew Sleeve, I never had any problems with it. Thank you so much for your gift, Merrily. This prototype sleeve (Originally named by its inventor, the "John Christianson Clew Tie Down Sleeve", you may search for it here at TLF) is one of my worthy diamonds at the "LooserLu's archive of unique Laser parts". :)


    Ciao
    LooserLu
     

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  14. laserxd

    laserxd Member

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    You can leave off the clew hook and just tie a bowline around the clew if you want, I like the clew hook because makes it convenient to rig and unrig the outhaul while easily adding an extra block. The outhaul should be run through the block, then tied off to the fairlead on the end of the boom. Even if the hook were to slip off the clew, it will still be attached to the block and the block to the outhaul line which will keep it from decorating the bottom of the sea. The other thing you can do if you don't like the clew hook is just use a D shackle, this will really secure the block to the clew while also making it easy to rig and derig.
     
  15. martyn

    martyn Member

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    That's exactly what I have, no problems with un hooking here :D

    But is it legal ? :(
     
  16. 132711

    132711 Member

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    how tight to the boom can you get with that set-up? compared to the clew hook?
     
  17. glasky

    glasky Member

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    There was an XD info post showing a harken hook rigged fron the outhaul to the clew (instead of rigged with line around the boom and with outhaul attached separately) - if this is what u are doin asking for trouble
     

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