why so strict?

Discussion in 'Laser Class Politics' started by Ross B, Apr 2, 2007.

  1. Ross B

    Ross B Guest

    how does the 5.5 rooster miss the point? the reason i got it was for light air because the 7 was too heavy when wet, does it miss the point just because it doesent float?
     
  2. Rob B

    Rob B Active Member

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    I believe his pont was it still absorbs water which weighs it down. Due to current in my area we can't sail with less than 4 knots of breeze so we really don't see this problem much at all.
     
  3. OliLaser

    OliLaser Guest

    WAIT A MINUTE
    you guys are ok with jc strap (smoething that completly changes the way we sail downwind in ligh winds) but your not ok with changing the rigging purchase amount( a tiny tiny tiny bit of the way we control our sails, not even our boat) Your agruments (no change in classrules) are all invalid now, the jc strap is a much bigger change than rigging. Quit being so hippocritical
     
  4. maljam

    maljam New Member

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    [deletes post, as he won't even acknowledge the negativity going on here]
     
  5. Ross B

    Ross B Guest

    HAHAHAHA this is sooooo not negative, this is like kindergarten compared to Sailing Anarchy

    wait no, kindergarten was alot rougher than this, we still made fun of your mom!
     
  6. Deimos

    Deimos Member

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    I think that is the point people are making and want to keep.

    We've heard loads about this JC Strap, and now we have a "what do you want to change" thread (like it's open season for changes).

    For me, two main reasons I purchased the Laser were One Design and quick to rig. One design meaning that when I lost I was losing and not the boat. I did not buy one to tinker abut with and have loads of string (though there does seem more now than on the Laser I had 15 years ago). I found tinkering great fun many years ago in a Fireball - but not something I want to do now and hence going for a one design.

    The more I hear about this JC Strap the more I am against it. Seems something with really minimal impact and thus personally I cannot see the point is stretching the one design idea for it. I am now glad that getting changes made is such hard work. When the JC Strap thing started I was pretty neutral; probably not use it myself but happy to race against others who had one. Now I will definitely vote against. So you have a convert from neutral to against.

    I think the comments people are making about people not liking one designs maybe changing classes are pointing out that the Laser is a one design and addresses sailing for people who want that. If you was to try new stuff, add remove, modify bits there are loads of other more open classes that provide that so maybe the people concerned would enjoy other classes more rather than challenging one designs.

    Ian
     
  7. Ross B

    Ross B Guest

    the reason i did the "what do you want to change" thread is because ive been doing all the talking, and i wanted to know what the people of the class had to say, those that arent afraid to speak that is
     
  8. TonyB

    TonyB Member

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    Afraid to speak? I think you will find that most people are more than happy to speak up when they have reason to. Have you considered that the reason why you are doing most of the talking might be that most people are pretty happy with the boat the way it is? And believe it or not, that is a perfectly valid opinion to have.
     
  9. Rob B

    Rob B Active Member

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    I'm happy w/the boat and class the way they are. I do have a wish list on the other thread, but it's just that a "wish list". I'm not gonna make a stink over it. My big beef is the sail, but we all have to deal wth it for now. Whatever the case I like the class being "strict" on our OD rules. It minimizes the "arms race". Salsa is a young buck w/lots of energy. He has been able to get some discussion going, (even if half of it is him). I'm ok w/discussion.
     
  10. Deimos

    Deimos Member

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    I suppose the sail price/longevity question is not one I see as part of a "One Design" issue. Maybe more commercial and accessibility. I would expect that, were a new sail maker appointed or a new material selected then the sails might be a bit cheaper and/or last a bit longer but two identical everythings one new, other old sails would be evenly matched (i.e. no speed advantage to old or new).


    Ian
     
  11. Ross B

    Ross B Guest

    if i can get people talkin and thinkin, im doin ok

    the people should have an opinion, they must, lets hear it!
     
  12. Georg W.F.

    Georg W.F. Member

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    It seems that we have a status quo between two groups:
    1. the laser needs to change
    2. the laser should not change
    1. yes
    2. no
    1. yes
    2. no
    ad infinitum

    A suggestion: make an argument in which you answer the following question:
    1. Why should the rigging change? Is it not the case that we already have enough purchase in the vang, outhaul, and cunningham?
    2. Why should we not be allowed to change the rigging? Could opening up the rules possibly give an advantages? Could a smaller, or bigger block somewhere in the rigging change the tuning-possibilities?
    G
     
  13. onetwoMeny

    onetwoMeny New Member

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    really good rob B, you make a good point all of us have things we "wish" to have changed. and the strict rulles prevents and "arms race" between companies trying to sell us stuff they may, or may not work.

    and salsa u r doin somthing good you are getting ever body talking, and we all agree onone thing the sails need to be alot cheeper. and we shold be able to buy from who ever as long as the measurment and material is standard.
     
  14. Chainsaw

    Chainsaw Brmmm Brmmm

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    The idea of one design has grown on me. I bought a laser because it was the best choice for my local conditions, body wieght, physical condition and budget. Initially I wasn't looking to race it, but I'm glad I do now. I've learned stuff in a laser I somehow missed with a stayed rig and thousands of lines and blocks for everything.

    A cheaper sail would be great - a cheaper anything is great - as long as it's the same or better quality. Who wants to pay more than they have to?

    My boat came with a turbo kit and all the bits and pieces that are still the forefront of the rule book. I can see that life would be difficult adjusting the outhaul from the boom cleat, though not impossible. I'm glad I don't have to try in 35kn winds, surfing down the face of a wave, or rounding the leeward bouy in similar conditions while trying to maintain s-curving. Maybe if I had to do those things, I would have learned something extra about balance and skill. Who knows.

    Personally, i'm in the leave it alone camp. If I wanted to fiddle I'd change classes. The laser rig as it stands is good enough. Whatever shortcomings still exist must be made up for by atheleticism in the sailor. As has already been said, if I lose it's my problem, not the rigging. That philosophy really pushes laser sailors to be the best and I like it like that. I'd prefer it if those who want to turn Lasers into moths by degrees would either change classes, or win an olympic gold in the standard rig first, but I'm not agro about it.

    Maybe I'll take the turbo kit off one day and learn something new. Then I'll go out against sailors with the latest kit and keep at it till I beat them.:D
     
  15. onetwoMeny

    onetwoMeny New Member

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    in laser sailing if you lose u know exactly why you lost theres no fitteling with your rigging you can get right down on improving your skills as a sailor. not your skill as a shipwright.
     
  16. lightninggeorge

    lightninggeorge New Member

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    Cost, Cost, Cost. This is the largest fleet in the world. It's not just because the boat is fast-there are many faster boats. Economy keeps this class strong-probably growing in a declining sport. Lightning Class has limited innovation and still has priced itself into a corner. The great thing about these little boats (and I've yet to get mine in the water) is that the worst expenses are manageable. I made my own better vang-only 5:1, but rigged with a cam cleat. Cost me $20 less than the fancy cascaded upgrade. I'm 190 lbs and don't need no 18:1.
    I'm for upgrades-but only the cheap ones! NO CARBON MASTS!
    This is a boat a teenager can still save up for! And be competitive! That cannot but help the sport. Young sailors become old sailors.
     

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