why so strict?

Discussion in 'Laser Class Politics' started by Ross B, Apr 2, 2007.

  1. Ross B

    Ross B Guest

    dear God are you really gonna make me type up the benefits of the JC Strap again?
     
  2. tomsinamerica

    tomsinamerica New Member

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    Ross...

    What are the benefits to the class as a whole, not just to the individual sailor? Sure it makes it easier for some people to head downwind (I never thought it was that complicated myself) but what does the addition of a JC strap add to the Laser Class.

    Will it encourage more people to switch to the Laser Class? That is primarily what will govern a change in rules. The rigging changes made the class more attractive to a greater audience; hence their approval.

    It needs to be looked at from a class perspective rather than an individual one.
     
  3. Ross B

    Ross B Guest

    well i know that in light air races, i always hate going down wind, because its such a pain in the ass keeping the boom out, especially when its lumpy, and i know alot of people share this view with me, now with the JC Strap, this would be made easier, which would equal lots of happy sailors in light air, which is a better time, instead od lots of unhappy people in light air bitching and moaning about how the conditions suck at the end of the day, they are actually happy

    happy people, happy time, happy class, happiness all around

    and when other people see happy people in not so happy situations, they say hey, i want to be with those happy people instead of being on this lead mine! so you get class growth

    happy people all around!
     
  4. tomsinamerica

    tomsinamerica New Member

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    It will take a lot more than a JC Strap to make people happy sailing downwind in light lumpy conditions....

    I imagine the guy who does manage to get out in front using his good technique from a lot of practice in those conditions is not so unhappy about it?

    Sailing in light weather is never going to be incredibly thrilling, it's more the racing and competition that make people enjoy it, I don't see the addition of a JC strap inviting that many other sailors to make the switch....

    I'm going to shut up about the JC strap now... I've said it enough, I don't see the need for it and will vote against it should i ever get the opportunity. Just don't get me started on carbon masts, new sails or anything else....
     
  5. Ross B

    Ross B Guest

    I mean honestly guys, how can you be so negative about something you have never sailed with?? I just dont understand that, its almost like being 20 years old, and having never had a steak, and screaming and shouting like a little child I DON'T LIKE STEAK!! NO!! I WON'T EAT IT!!!

    its cheap and easy, go out and try it, and tell me what you think, if you vehemently hate it, we'll talk some more

    Lets try to have open minds here, after all a good part of us are Americans...

    Ty Webb:This isn't Russia. Is this Russia? This isn't Russia.
    -Caddyshack
     
  6. tomsinamerica

    tomsinamerica New Member

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    OK... I lied... I have to say something to that....

    Ross, I've tried it, I've sailed a finn and also tried on another boat sailed in the UK which you don't have over here. I've also sailed Skiffs, RS 600s, too many classes to mention, and I come back to Lasers because I love them.

    I love the closeness of the racing, I love the simplicity of the boat, I love the fact that it's like athletic chess on the water because the boats are so simple and identical and the better sailor ALWAYS wins. When I lose, it's not because my boat or my gear suck, it's because I do. When I win, then yes it's because I'm better than the other guy (or girl)

    If you can't figure out a way to keep the boom out in light lumpy conditions, maybe you need to get some race coaching rather than trying to add a bit of string to make up for your lack of skill in this department.
     
  7. Ross B

    Ross B Guest

    dont get me wrong, i fully can do it, and ive had some of the best coaching available in the US, but i just dont find anything wrong with the JC Strap, Finns, OKs, Europes, Naples Sabots all use em, should they go back and get coaching? I sure as hell wouldent say that to a Finn sailor

    i know i know, if you love finns so much, go sail em

    all the boats i just mentioned are this: "I love the closeness of the racing, I love the simplicity of the boat, I love the fact that it's like athletic chess on the water because the boats are so simple and identical and the better sailor ALWAYS wins. When I lose, it's not because my boat or my gear suck, it's because I do. When I win, then yes it's because I'm better than the other guy (or girl)"

    they have just been around a bit longer, and have experienced their growning pains, and the pains have come to be accepted
     
  8. tomsinamerica

    tomsinamerica New Member

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    They've been around longer yet cannot boast about nearly 200,000 boats worldwide, several hundred boats turning up for national championships etc etc.

    Why should we try to emulate classes that are less successful than our own? The Laser is so strong because of the very few changes that have happened in our history. All those changes have been caused by a significant benefit to the class as a whole either driven by reliability, lowering the cost of ownership or enabling more sailors of varying shapes & sizes to compete at the same level. I see no reason to change this policy.
     
  9. vtgent49

    vtgent49 Member

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    "I mean honestly guys, how can you be so negative about something you have never sailed with?? "

    Ok, Ross, we love your enthusasim for the JC, and I am very interested to try it out when the ice goes out around here. We get plenty of light and lumpy, on a lake, often in the evening. But, admittedly it's nothing like left over Pacific sweels. I already have a ultra light, floating main sheet, an autoratchet, and other legal things to reduce the times I have to push the boom. Frankly, a wet Rooster sheet will hurt you more than a JC will help, I believe.

    So, please go sail with it, hooked to wherever various places, using both 3/16 and 1/4". Send us pics and a report. I'd like to know if it's something I'd use all the time, or just under 5 kts, or whatever. Send pics (or it didn't happen?)

    I love Balboa YC by the way, as you can imagine as our beach is solid ice for another couple of weeks, and 9" of snow last night. I'll be skiing this weekend.

    There are no Sabots around here, and one Finn. So, your analogy doesn't quite work on the right coast. Opti's don't use them, the only class even close to lasers around here, in numbers or activity.

    So, don't accuse us of being negative (which we may be), unless you've tried it enough in all conditions to explain why you are so positive?

    Al
     
  10. Merrily

    Merrily Administrator Staff Member

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    Al, I haven't heard of this before. Please tell more. Do you use a different brand of sheet? Why is a wet Rooster sheet bad?
     
  11. Ross B

    Ross B Guest

    ok, next time i have the boat out, ill rig it up and take pics

    and you have to stop comparing the fact that there are 200,000 boats is becasue the first thing people think of is how strict the rules are, in NA, the reason most kids get into it is because it the next up boat out of optis/sabots w/e, and its the dominant boat to sail, and its CHEAP, thats why people sail lasers, because they are everywhere, they are under 6 grand, and the level of competition to price is very good
     
  12. Ross B

    Ross B Guest

    I have tried it in all conditions, just happens to be on different boats lol:D

    and you allready sail in perfect conditions for the JC strap, and you can go back to the Rooster mainsheet, and you would be great from light to 40, or use the 5.5, but that can be a bit thin in light air.

    if you use a JC strap in light air, and wet 7mm Rooster, you would fine
     
  13. tomsinamerica

    tomsinamerica New Member

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    Ross...

    If the Laser is that bad, and racing without the JC strap or any other of your proposed changes is sooooo painful, just why on earth did you join the laser fleet?

    You could have conducted your 2012 Olympic campaign in a Finn....?
     
  14. dannyv1986

    dannyv1986 New Member

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    Its crazy... just crazy.
     
  15. OliLaser

    OliLaser Guest

    The net person to tell someone to join another class or sail another boat, I will personaly hunt down and light thier hair on fire.
    we all sail the same boat, telling someone to sail another class because you don't agree with them is realy childish and anoying, it is not an argument its just a realy stupid coment, also asking why someone joins/joined the laser class ??????? Does it mater(probalbly has something to do with the competition)
     
  16. onetwoMeny

    onetwoMeny New Member

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    olilaser, i do know that laser sailing is dying in canada because i live in canada actualy my district dosnt even have a fleet. the only other person who i know of who sails lasers here in halifax is my buddy Evan.

    To salsa, if you dont like are policys why are you sailing laser.

    laser has done fine since it came out in the 70's so well it is one of the largest if not the largest sailing class in the world. this class is adopting new ways of rigging but is doing so in a way that everything is equal everone is on the same page. some of us like that others dont. sure theres still things that can be changed and its comming these rulles arent ingraved in stone they do get changed and they will be.
     
  17. tomsinamerica

    tomsinamerica New Member

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    Oli...

    I'm not so sure that you need to use language like that. Some, not me, might take considerable offense to that.

    I'm not telling Ross to sail another class, the more laser sailors the better. But I can't see the point in joining a class and then trying to change it to be more like another class... It's illogical...
     
  18. vtgent49

    vtgent49 Member

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    ok, next time i have the boat out, ill rig it up and take pics

    That's the idea, better than "beating your head against the wall". I was a beta tester for the JC boom sleeve all year last summer, and my fleet didn't care, even used it at a Regional level, without a "rules" complaint. Everyone knew if was for the betterment of the class, not so that I'd have some advantage, etc. And I provided reports directly to Vanguard, and to the LF.

    The Boom sleeve was probably designed by the same JC about 10+ years ago, and it does take a while to get it right, and convince a very International Class.

    I agree with some on here that the Laser has "recoverd" to become a very strong class. And with others who lament it's demise. D2, just 1 hour north of us in Vermont, and which is the very home of the original factory, is particularily weak. So, we can't claim "universal success" as a one- design class, or to be proven successful. Yet.

    Al Russell
    182797
     
  19. vtgent49

    vtgent49 Member

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    Al, I haven't heard of this before. Please tell more. Do you use a different brand of sheet? Why is a wet Rooster sheet bad?

    Kind of a thread hijack, but.....

    A wet Rooster is heavy. Having 30+ feet of it hanging on the boom, when at 90 degrees, and it's light and lumpy, is going to make you have to hold the boom out, to keep the sheet from dragging in the water, etc...

    I have light, "floating" sheets for light air. Floating means it doesn't absorb, weigh's the same wet or dry, so good for 0-2 knots, etc.

    My point was... If you haven't tried the legal fixes to the holding the boom out problem, then maybe you should. A smaller Rooster misses the point.

    Al again
     
  20. Ross B

    Ross B Guest

    thank you!

    i sail lasers because its the biggest step up boat here in socal, and i do sail finns, just dont own one, i just borrow, so its awfully limited... hell, i did finn pre-trials this year, the laser is a great boat, dont get me wrong i love it, and the reason i stay is because of the sailors and hte level of competition, not the stupid rules, people dont really join a class for its rules, they join for what is raced near them, and who is racing it, and if the boat is right for them, but if you are looking for "absolutly anything goes" you look for with a fine toothed comb
     

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