whats supposed to be inside of the laser?

Discussion in 'Laser Talk' started by david pollitt, Feb 7, 2005.

  1. david pollitt

    david pollitt New Member

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    You guys were great with my first questions and as predicted new ones keep popping up.

    1. I have an access hole near the mast- in looking inside I see no buoyancy of any sort- is there supposed to be? and how does one replace it? should one replace it?

    2. Is there any problem with using Marine grade 5200 adhesive for replacing some of the hardware-heard it was too strong?

    2. Looking inside this access hole I think I see some fiberglass work, around the sail step area? There is absolutely no sign of damage on the deck. But, as I look at the outside of the hull where the mast sits, I see a faint ouline of the 4x4 block the mast seems to sit on inside-is this normal? Or, did this mast fall through the hull and was repaired. Puzzling, as it seems very solid. Is there any other reason, other than a mast repair, for having this access hole next to the mast?

    thanks again for all your help on the previous questions. just trying to garner the likely history of this boat-sellars speak little english and.......

    david
     
  2. macwas16

    macwas16 New Member

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    Hey David, looks like we can help you here to.

    1) Yes! There should be plastic flotation bag like things called cubitainers inside the hull. There are 3, 20 Liter bags aft and 3, 10 Liter bags forward. If yours are not there, it is a good idea to replace them. You can purchase them at any local Vanguard dealer for $9 per 20 Liter bag and $6 per 10 liter bag. Just get them into the hull through the inspection port and inflate them with a shop vac.

    2) 3M's 5200 is great stuff but I'm not sure I'd use it for fittings. The problem is that it's so strong, it provides a permanent seal meaning you'd have to drill it out or cut out the fitting if ever you needed to replace it.

    3) Looking into the inside of the hull at the mast step, even the factory job is not very pretty. It is merely a block of plywood on the bottom surrounded by a "doughnut" and then wrapped up with some fiberglass cloth. It is a possability that someone tried to repair it by adding some fiberglass which is a pretty common fix on older Lasers. You're going to want to check that your mast step does not leak, so flip the boat right side up and poor water into the step and observe if the level goes down meaning the mast step does leak. If this should be the problem, it may require some additional fiberglass work. When the boat is hull side up, it is perfectly normal to see the outline of the plywood at the bottom of the mast step. Even my brand new Laser shows it just a bit.


    Cheers.
     
  3. david pollitt

    david pollitt New Member

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    Mackenzie

    thanks so much for that very helpful answer and great advice. I would have happily used 5200 only to find a disaster down the line when wanting to change or fix.

    yes, your description of what the inside at the mast step looks like - is right on- pretty ugly- only thing that concerns me is that ring- mine seems to be only half there although with all that resin and glass its hard to tell for sure.

    one probably stupid follow up-why is the flotation there at all if it is a watertight hull- for catastrophic failure?

    once again, many thanks
    david
     
  4. Merrily

    Merrily Administrator Staff Member

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    The answer to that has got to be a big yes. I was crewing on a Lido last year when a gust of wind whipped the boat around so that the bow broadsided another Lido. It knocked a four inch hole in the bow and removed some fittings from the other boat. The breached boat definitely would have sunk without floatation.


    Merrily
     
  5. LooserLu

    LooserLu LooserLu

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  6. Chuso007

    Chuso007 Member

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    Hello there,

    I think I'm in the same situation as you are, I'm new to lasers but sailed on many other boats, and just bought a '79 laser (59xxx) with an in inspection hole by the mast step, which by the way, I just found out it leaks, it has a big hole right in the middle surrounded by some kind of black rubber. Is that rubber standard? I'm thinking about filling the hole with resin and fiber and then put a layer of Sikaflex (it's the stuff that goes between the wood trips in teak decks) it's supposed to be very good for these things. Is it a good or bad idea?

    It also has some kind of metal ring around the step, looks kind of weird to me..

    My laser also has no buoyancy inside, I´ll definitely put some in it!!

    adios
     
  7. LooserLu

    LooserLu LooserLu

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    Hi, Jesus
    The "black line" (see my picture in my relpy above) that goes from the centreboard-box to the maststep is the plywood that the Laserbuilder made in the glassfibre of the deck when the 46438 was built. Its old but not bad, I guess. Maybe it became wet in former days sometime, but now its dry and most of it is not rotten, it only became a darker colour.
    That dark rubber at the maststep, my Laser also have it, is a special-resin-material that the Laserbuilder made in. You have to repair the maststep-tube if it has not only microcracks but bigger cracks !!immediately!! You told, you are an Atlantic-crosser, so I think absolute, you are able to work with fibreglass and it´s resin. Take the woven fibreglass-textile (because it is better).
    View to the maststep of 46438 (the water at he maststep is fom cleaning inside... not form a hole):
    http://www.laserforum.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=178&stc=1


    If you use Sika-flex-Silicone use type 291 for the inspection port. (put the ring out, make new silicone on it and put the i-port-ring back again to the deck). Also buy a new rubberring that has to be made between the plasticring of the i-port and the i-port-lid. Make sure that the silicone is away form parts you put the fibreglass on, otherwise (if there is silicone there on the ground) it is possible that the resin for the fibreglass does not hold on the ground.

    The metall"ring" you see from the side, could be the thin metalldisk, that is made on the ground of the maststep.
    From TLF-"The Boathouse"-Scott we have learned at TLF, that this metalldisk is made there by the Laser-builder to prevent that the maststep not suddenly breaks under the load of the masttube (and Scott: my investigations brought the result, that this metalldisk is already made to the maststep since the mid of the 70ties to the Laser´s that are built in Europe (by PSE in the UK), curious isn´t it).

    At least, try to put new original cubitainers inside the hull. In front: 3 pcs. Of 20 liter-cubitainers - in the rear: 3x 10 liter-cubitainers. The cubitainers have not to be pumped up full (they could get a hole and leak then). You can see on the picture above that the cubitainers of my Laser are also not pumped up full.

    Good (winter-)work
    LooserLu
     

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  8. Chuso007

    Chuso007 Member

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    Thank you Lou, I´ll try to take a picture of the thing and post it, I'm waiting for the mast step to dry out before I try to repair it.
     
  9. Chris123

    Chris123 New Member

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    If worse comes to worst, you can buy a complete mast step repair kit, which includes a good sized piece of deck with the mast step tube set into it, plus the plywood block that goes at the base of the mast step. It's a big job.
     
  10. Chuso007

    Chuso007 Member

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    Thanks, but not necessary, I´ll invest on a new sail and some fittings. Laser stuff is very expensive!!!
     
  11. LooserLu

    LooserLu LooserLu

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    Jesús,
    when the drLaser.org Website returns in the nearer future, you can go there to find some instructions for repairing the maststep at FAQ-Chapter or Chapter for Maintenance and Fittness. The Maststeprepair-kit is not available in Europe, I guess. You can get it in the USA (f.e.: www.apsltd.com, www.theboathouse.biz), but to carry it to Spain is expensive, better repair it on your own. I´m sure you are able to do that when the weather is warmer, altough Chris is right, it is a "major-repair" to the Laser. 1st thing you already did right: you care for a dry hull before starting the fibreglassworks :)
    Buenos noches
    Ludwig
     
  12. The year of August

    The year of August New Member

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    I also have an older laser and im in the same boat.(pardon the pun). I dont believe i have any floatation bags in mine, but i also dont have an inspection port. So im wondering if it is even possible for me to have them ayways...they i assume werent put in to boats atleast before the 80s when you bought them new. And i am still considering wether or not it is worth the inspection port to put in the buyoncany bags (if there werent money issues i would immediatly but being a student i can hardly afford anything for my boat).
     
  13. Chris123

    Chris123 New Member

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    I believe they were all built with flotation -- the really old boats had foam blocks; the newer ones have cubitainers. (a.k.a "cubicontainers"). So, if your boat has no inspection ports, there doesn't seem to be any way a previous owner could have taken out the original flotation, unless of course he unglued the hull from the deck, peeled the whole boat apart, and then rebuilt it.
     
  14. LooserLu

    LooserLu LooserLu

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    Jacob,
    my Laser (built in Europe) is from 1977. I made in the inspection-ports in last April. The Cubitainers are in there since the out-of the box-boat-builder glued togehter the hull and the deck in 1977.
    Of course our Laser has an inspection port, every Laser has it. :D Ok, it is only a bit small. It´s the Transom bung. With a little luck, with the right light from the sun that shine on the deck of your Laser you can try to look inside of the back-part of the hull. The 10-liter-cubitainers should be there. If not, they maybe went to the front part of the hull.
    Whether to install cubitainers supplemantary inside of the hull or not, is the descision of the boat owner alone. To allow an owner to race with a Laser without cubitainers on an official race is the descision of the measurers of that races. I guess, if they demand the boat-owner to have them and the boat-owner says that he/she doesn´t want to put them in, then the boat-owner has to accept that probably the measures say that he/she is not allowed to race at that race.
    If your Laser is not leaky and in good condition (no problems with the maststep), I´m the opinion, you really do not need an inspection-port. As long your Laser has not a big accident, where the hull gets a big hole, the hull will hold the Laseriete(s) that just sail on her. And I guess, hopefully you usually also wear a kind of abuyoncany-jacket during sailing the Laser.
    A not correct installed inspection port often is a reason why water comes inside of the hull.
    The answer to the question, why I made i-ports to my only for recreational sailing used Laser is, that the boat is really old and it was now time and a need to control the massttep from inside of the hull. Also I needed to control the plywood inside of the deck for installing the new basicplates for the new XD-controll-lines. The srews for the basicplate for the currycleats didn´t hold strong in the old plywood (but for the block-plate the screws hold strong without washers). I had to install washers form inside of the hull to keep them strong.
    Good Sailing
    LooserLu
     
  15. vtgent49

    vtgent49 Member

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    Hi,

    I'm sure all lasers had either foam blocks, or cibitainers. My first boat was 1041. The foam was wrapped in green garbage bags, which disintegrate, and then pieces come out of (or plug up) the drain port! Tip your boat over, and listen for the sound of them sliding around.

    Old boats should have an inspection port (IMHO) to air them. Put it close to, but 10-12 inches from the mast, but offcenter so as to not cut the main beam in the top deck. Use a digi cam to get a close up of your mast step, then reinforce it (before you lose it!) 10-12" away is a good distance to be able to reach in and try to glass this one-handed, if needed. Do a search on "mast step repair" for more info. I always hang a home-made bag off port, for water, sunglasses, sunblock, etc.

    The flotation is also helpful when you forget the transome plug! (I can't believe I'm the only one who has done this? duh!)

    Al Russell
     
  16. LooserLu

    LooserLu LooserLu

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    No Al, you are not alone....:D.... My personal record is: one hour...;)
    LuooserLu
     
  17. HECS

    HECS New Member

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    You are not the first, and there could be worse places to forget than at your local lake. My brother didn't check his bung at a series when boats were supplied and people swapped them. The guy who had used the boat earlier had taken the bung out.

    My brother only found out in the middle of a race, at the Open big-rig world championships.....it wasn't exactly his best result.
     
  18. Baja

    Baja New Member

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    Heh, heh, last Saturday went without the plug for a four race series 2 to 2 1/2 hours on the water. Thought the boat handled odd, but it was pretty windy 18-25 and shifty. Didn't notice it until I was walking behind the boat to get into the car to go home. Normally I do not take on any water, but I had a LOT in it that day ;) . Put it in the garage stuck a portable light with a 40 watt bulb in the inspection port and it is pretty much dry now.
     
  19. Teeftie

    Teeftie New Member

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    when i went to the laser factory to pick up my new boat they gave me a tour of the production area and i took some pictures, heres the link if anyone is intrested it might give you a better thought about what the inside of the boats look like http://www.piczo.com/laserpimp?g=1867696

    BTW i would just like to say to all of you that the staff at the vanguard sailing center in rhode island are more than helpfull, i came down from nova scotia in canada to pick up my boat and they were some of the most welcoming and hospitable people i have ever met. i reccoment everyone to go there and keep them going strong.
     
  20. fishingmickey

    fishingmickey Member

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    Hello Alex,
    Thanks for the virtual tour, perhaps one of these days I'll get the same chance... Hope your enjoy your new Laser and she provides you with some magic sailing moments!
    Best regards,
    Fishingmickey
    150087/181157
     

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