"Wedge"-plate for the XD-Cleats?

Discussion in 'Laser Talk' started by LooserLu, Nov 6, 2009.

  1. LooserLu

    LooserLu LooserLu

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    Hi.

    Next sailing season I sail a club Laser. I plan to add the XD-Controls for the Cunningham and the Outhaul to the deck of hull. I have a question related to the deck cleats:

    In the past years, I did sail the "Holt" T-cleats without a so called "wedge"-plate between the "original builder supplied"basic plate (Laser item number: 1526) and the T-cleats. (Photo 1)

    Sometimes I felt, the lines did not hold optimal at the (new) T-cleats, during I pulled them. It sometimes was a matter of the material of the rope I did use, but sometimes not (as I had better rope, but the T-cleats did not had any big wearing and itself worked decent).

    Now I ask myself, if it would be better to take a so called "wedge"-plate between the T-cleats and the basic plate for the deck. I only have photos of a "wedge"-plate of Ronstan (RF5002) (Photo 2). Perhaps this is for Ronstan cleats (RF5001) (Photo3) only?

    What's your opinion: Do I need the "wedge"-plate or not (I just have to care more that the line really cleats well in the T-cleat)? And if yes: do I need original "wedge"-plates of Holt (and whats the correct item number for a "wedge"-plate of Holt, related to the Holt "HA677" T-Cleat)?
    Or, does the RF5002 "wedge"-plate also fit decent for the Holt T-Cleats? My sailing store only has the RF5002 in their online shop...

    Thanks for sufficient answers,

    LooserLu
     

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  2. beaker

    beaker hi

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    The ronstan plate is more of an adapter so the larger bolt spacing cleats will fit the smaller spaced builder supplied plate. I have aluminum harken cleat. And have no problems.
     
  3. Scott B

    Scott B Member

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    One option is to put a Harken 298 under you cleats, with the loop facing forward.

    If the loop does not hold the line low enough in the cleat, bend the top of the loop forward (away from the cleat) to force the loop to hold the line lower in the cleat jaws.
     
  4. LooserLu

    LooserLu LooserLu

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    Hi,
    thanks. I try that with the loops. I guess, Scott, exact this what you describe, is the problem I have. I own such loops in my maintenance box and meanwhile found out, Holt offers own wedge plates for their HA677 cleats (Holt part code: "HA493-2SB").

    Ciao
    LooserLu
     
  5. sidewinder

    sidewinder Member

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    Lu,
    I think the metal loop on the in-feed side of the cleat will help you.

    Look at your first picture in the post. You will see 2 sets of holes for the wire loop to mount under. One is directly under the cleat, and the other is about 1/8" lower. I've found that using the lower set of holes creates a lot of drag when releasing the lines in light air. I re-mounted my "loops" in the upper holes.
     
  6. LooserLu

    LooserLu LooserLu

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    I had some luck and already got the wedge plates today (they are from "Sprenger", but they fit well to the Holt Cleats).

    I did do, like Scott B and sidewinder did advise. I did bend the loop of the wire at the starboard cleat (came with the basic plate). I guess, sidewinder is correct and the wire now sits to low.

    At the port side cleat, I did fix the wire loop under the cleat itself . Here the loop isn't bent, I think it would be bettter to bend it like Scott B did advised.

    The screws are to short now. So, at the following photos the screws are not fixed and the cleats etc sit loose on the plates. I don't get new screws before Monday.

    From this first dry test, I'm the opinion the angle of the cleats is better now.

    Ciao
    LooserLu
     

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  7. RickHough

    RickHough New Member

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    Apologies for resurrecting an old thread but could I ask what screws did you use to connect the assembly to the base plate? They look like M5 stainless but do they have nuts and are they countersunk or flat capped?
     
  8. LooserLu

    LooserLu LooserLu

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    Hi, sorry,
    unfortunately I don't remember exact to the diameter and length of the screws, I am already over age 50 now and light the veil of oblivion more and more does grow in my mind.:oops:

    In that time I planned to use wedges at the XD-cleat-system, some years ago, I took the complete XD-cleat-system with me into the home depot shop and testet direct what screws wouild be suitable. Diameter M5 or maybe M4 (mm). I took screws flathead (not countersunk headed). The nuts I used are so called locknuts, plus washers. Stainless Steel DIN/AISI 316 (At GER we callthat "A4"-Steel / saltwater-resistant!) -If possible: take "AISI 317" stuff, but that's not easy to get in a home depot. I mounted the system in that setup to my new Laser and it works very nice!
    But, here is a warning!
    It's NOT ILCA-Classrule conform! Jean Luc Michon (head of the technical ILCA Board) and each official ILCA-authorized measuerer for the Laser would not permit you to race an official ILCA major race with this setup for the XD-Cleats, as it beats the so called Fundamental Rule! I don't sail such high-level races, as I don't want to meet Mr. Michon and also my sailing skills are to low for such racer. So, in this case, I don't care about what this guy would say. However, this cleat-system with wedges doesn't make your boat more fast, but it allows to handle the control lines more easy.

    Ciao
    LooserLu
    (Member of the OEM-Laserboat-Builder/ILCA-independent and new ARG "99%-Laser Class" (Region: GER) :D )
     

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  9. RickHough

    RickHough New Member

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    Thank you LooserLu, very much appreciated. I too am the wrong side of 50 but hopefully hanging off the side of a dinghy will enable me to approach my 60s a little fitter - Dankeschön!
     
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  10. LooserLu

    LooserLu LooserLu

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    All I know, in the early 50's one is less fit than if one starts into the 60's, especially if one sails continuously Laser (Prove f.e.: Peter Seidenberg, Wolfgang Gerz etc. ...). There is much hope, Rick.
    From the moment I restarted to sail in the Laser ambitious, my back-problems have been "away", not even one lumbago in over 10 years, now ;) Ciao Lu
     
  11. gaber

    gaber New Member

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    Are these wedges class legal?
     
  12. LooserLu

    LooserLu LooserLu

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