Was the sailcloth actually rejected by the Victoria's Secret supplier because it was

Discussion in 'Laser Class Politics' started by gouvernail, Oct 15, 2007.

  1. Chainsaw

    Chainsaw Brmmm Brmmm

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    Re: Was the sailcloth actually rejected by the Victoria's Secret supplier because it

    Nothing wrong with private interests developing their own rigs and sails, since the likelihood of them being adopted by the ILCA is nil. What these dream rigs does do is explore what is possible and then what should be done under a brief that limits the changes to solutions to the obvious problems we have now. I'd prefer many people start private dream investigations now, rather than see a "think small" offering pushed through under political influence that has nothing to do with sailing.
     
  2. gouvernail

    gouvernail Active Member

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    Re: Was the sailcloth actually rejected by the Victoria's Secret supplier because it

    My sincere hope is the suggestions in this thread about wild changes are made in jest. I know mine certainly were.

    Currently the Class and builders are working together to come up with some sort of proposal. Test sails are being pased around.

    The sailors / consumers need to feel the value exiasts or they will not happily purchase new sails. The Laser sails as sold are unacceptable products that we only buy because there are no alternatives available.

    My sincere hope is the buiilders and association will develop a new sails whose performance is as close to identical to the current sail as possible while making sails that last for years and years and years and look womnderful every day during those years and years and years.

    At the very least, I want an honest comeback next time someone says, "I refuse to buy a new Laser sail. The things flutter on day one and stretch out of shape in the first puff of wind they encounter."

    I want to be able to reply, "The builders finally solved the sail problem. The sails are durable. The sails look great. The sails are mass produced and sold for a very low price compared to the one off sails sold for other one design classes."

    I really don't think my goal is unreasonable.
     
  3. GeoffS

    GeoffS Member

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    Re: Was the sailcloth actually rejected by the Victoria's Secret supplier because it

    I hope not...
     
  4. sailchris

    sailchris Member

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    Re: Was the sailcloth actually rejected by the Victoria's Secret supplier because it

    There has been discussion on SA about the sail below, which supposedly would cost about $600-700 including carbon battens.

    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]

    I know that this sail is obviously a big step forward from the conventional sail, but what do people think about it?

    I think I'd rather have a better designed conventional sail as defined by gouvernail, but this sail would be fun for blasting around.
     
  5. Ross B

    Ross B Guest

    Re: Was the sailcloth actually rejected by the Victoria's Secret supplier because it

    That is exactly the kind of sail I have been talking about. That is the direction I believe the class should be moving toward in sail design. And at the right price to boot.
     
  6. Debos

    Debos New Member

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    Re: Was the sailcloth actually rejected by the Victoria's Secret supplier because it

    Or Likely.
     
  7. laser167373

    laser167373 New Member

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    Re: Was the sailcloth actually rejected by the Victoria's Secret supplier because it

    wow those sails suck donkey !@#$%&
     
  8. gouvernail

    gouvernail Active Member

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    Re: Was the sailcloth actually rejected by the Victoria's Secret supplier because it

    exclamationatpounbddollarpercentand?
     
  9. Ross B

    Ross B Guest

    Re: Was the sailcloth actually rejected by the Victoria's Secret supplier because it

    yea, what are you referring to laser167373? thats a pretty broad statement
     
  10. GBR 134

    GBR 134 Member

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    Re: Was the sailcloth actually rejected by the Victoria's Secret supplier because it

    The pictures were unavailable on my forum but I found this through the links and guess this is what you are referring to:- http://forums.sailinganarchy.com/index.php?act=attach&type=post&id=69562





    What the hell is the point?

    I've windsurfed with this technology - it is great for speed and performance in its ideal wind strength. Conversely underpowered and it is poor in performance and much harder to read. Overpowered it is more difficult to depower and control. It would completely fail the primary requirement for class adoption being that its performance across the range of racing conditions will be as close to the current sail as possible - this won't be. As for cost saving - fleet leaders may save as the length of time they use the sail may increase enough to cover the increased cost but I really doubt it. The cost you are quoting are almost certainly pie in the sky figures that sail makers say they could produce it for. Well ask them what they could produce the current sail and then apply the percentage difference to what you pay for it. This will give you an idea of the percentage increase PS will want.

    I agree with Lito if people want to sail these fine start a new class with the laser hull and eqpt + the alternate rig (like Rooster did with 8.1). You will need a new PN and you can't call it a Laser. I'm fine with that and might even buy one but I want to race Laser for its unique racing experience - don't expect to change the boat and keep the Laser experience.

    The current sail is rubbish and ridiculously overpriced - I currently don't get out in my Laser much but still buy a new sail every year, which gets max 20 outings. This works out at @ £20 per race day roughly which happens to be very nearly equivalent to what I spend on petrol a sandwich and a couple of beers whenever I go to the club!
    It is also far and away the least expensive boat I have ever raced!
     
  11. Debos

    Debos New Member

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    Re: Was the sailcloth actually rejected by the Victoria's Secret supplier because it

    The laser is not the fastest boat in the world, it is not the slowest, it is not the prettiest(particularly with its sail up), it is not the best downwind, or upwind, it goes pretty well on a reach, if you can keep it upright. It isn't the cheapest boat out there, and it clearly isn't the most expensive. It is nearly useless for camping, and it has no loo. The unstayed rig trims counterintuitively to stayed rigs. It is not built to last forever, but is reasonbly durable.

    It is arguably the most popular race boat in the world, I think for 2 simple reasons: A)it was introduced at a time that it had no real competition and a huge demand for the concept, giving it a huge marketing head start, and B) The class has made a serious, long term committment to keeping the boat as one-design as possible. These factors combine to produce the 6 figure sail numbers stretching across the sails of new boats.

    It would be nice if the manufacturers were able to provide us with prettier sails, that lasted a bit longer, for a more reasonble price, but they have figured out what we are willing to put up with and have set the bar there. The sails we have produce fairly even racing, and unless you are in superb physical shape, and compete at the very top level, the difference between a one race sail and a 30 or 40 race sail can be blown by a few minutes of lazy hiking, or inattention at the helm.

    If you want to race the fastest boat in the world, you need to find a different class.

    If you want the opportunity to redesign deck layouts, design new sails, alter foil shapes, add hiking systems, etc, you need to find a new class.

    If you want the best, purest one-design singlehanded racing possible, available in practically every body of water that humans sail on, choose the Laser.
     
  12. jeffers

    jeffers Active Member

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    Re: Was the sailcloth actually rejected by the Victoria's Secret supplier because it

    Here in the UK there are an increasing number of club who allow 'training' sails for club racing. We do at my local club and there has been a flurry of people who have bought new sails and are now enjoying their sailing much more.

    Most people have the Rooster variety (which is pretty good). I myself have an intensity one (some enterprising chap is selling them on E-bay). If only the genuine article was like this. It is made of a slightly heavier cloth than the standard sail. Is it faster than the standard sail... a new one certainly not. An old worn out one quite probably.

    On a personal note nothing beats the thrill of sailing in a one design class race and coming out on top, you have beaten people with identical equipment which has proved that you are the faster sailor.

    For handicap racing I have gone down the Rooster 8.1 route. I believe this is now making inroads into the states as they have recently exported a batch of rigs there. For thos who want a Laser fo class racing and something a bit more for handicap racing give it a try. It has the performance of much more expenssive boats (notably the Phantom here in the UK) for a fraction of the price.

    Don;t forget for the windy days you can always keep you standard sail up for handicap racing when the handicap is more favourable.

    Just my 2p. There are some really good posts in this thread and some really bad ones. I think the general fist is make the Laser sail more durable, drop the price to something sensible and Laser Performance (as I believe the are now called) might find they actually sell a huge amount more and in the end make more money!

    Paul
    121821
     
  13. madyottie

    madyottie Apprentice

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    Re: Was the sailcloth actually rejected by the Victoria's Secret supplier because it

    Hey Jeffers, welcome aboard!

    Get that old helm of yours, Jon to sign up as well!!

    For anyone who may care, Jeffers and myself have a fireball history, although I'm gonna let him guess who I am!
     
  14. gouvernail

    gouvernail Active Member

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    Re: Was the sailcloth actually rejected by the Victoria's Secret supplier because it


    I built #1300 as a ninth grade winter project
     

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