Was the sailcloth actually rejected by the Victoria's Secret supplier because it was

Discussion in 'Laser Class Politics' started by gouvernail, Oct 15, 2007.

  1. 663

    663 Member

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    Re: Was the sailcloth actually rejected by the Victoria's Secret supplier because it

    Bainbridge stopped producing the 3.2 cloth that used to be used. That is why we have 3.8 sails now, with cloth from North and Contender. Bainbridge didn't have enough demand for the 3.2 cloth. The 3.8 was supposed to be a more common greige good (pre-finished) to ensure supply and keep the costs down. The class however didn't/couldn't/hasn't demanded a narrow enough cloth spec's for what is allowed to be used in the class sail production. As a result you'll see they are using materials at the bottom of the spec barrel...
     
  2. LaserBen

    LaserBen New Member

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    Re: Was the sailcloth actually rejected by the Victoria's Secret supplier because it

    This may be of interest:
    http://www.yachtsandyachting.com/news/?article=140114

    will be good to see what these sails look like later this year - if they look rubbish then we know it's the cloth/crappy design. If they look good then we know the dodgy looking ones are just badly made.
     
  3. Laser of the Corn

    Laser of the Corn Member

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    Re: Was the sailcloth actually rejected by the Victoria's Secret supplier because it


    I really don't think this will make any difference whatsoever. All the measurers/overseers are doing is making the sure the sails are built as close to the middle spec of Laser guidelines.

    The problem is NOT the sail coming out of the factory. The problem is the specs the Laser class has within it's scantlings. If we want better sails, harping on North and Hyde will do nothing, change the specs and make North and Hyde build to a better spec.

    just my humble opinion. Flame away.

    Dan
     
  4. HECS

    HECS New Member

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    Re: Was the sailcloth actually rejected by the Victoria's Secret supplier because it

    The sail is going to be radically changed if trials work out (ie if it's longer lasting but no faster), according to an extremely good source.
     
  5. Ross B

    Ross B Guest

    Re: Was the sailcloth actually rejected by the Victoria's Secret supplier because it

    so they are testing new sails?
     
  6. gouvernail

    gouvernail Active Member

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    Re: Was the sailcloth actually rejected by the Victoria's Secret supplier because it

    "They" better keep it secret until, the sail is ready and announced. Loose lips could cause the leaking of information to our mortal enemies the Force Five , Finn, Banshee, and Megabyte classes.

    They might use the information about sail development to cut off our wind supply.
     
  7. Ross B

    Ross B Guest

    Re: Was the sailcloth actually rejected by the Victoria's Secret supplier because it

    I would think that if they were going to redesign the sail, it would be a good idea to redesign the whole rig (mast/boom) and get it over and done with, kill two birds with one stone
     
  8. gouvernail

    gouvernail Active Member

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    Re: Was the sailcloth actually rejected by the Victoria's Secret supplier because it

    and the hull, deck and rigging too!!

    [​IMG]
     
  9. Ross B

    Ross B Guest

    Re: Was the sailcloth actually rejected by the Victoria's Secret supplier because it

    I was trying to be slightly serious.....
     
  10. Eric_R

    Eric_R D10 Secretary

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    Re: Was the sailcloth actually rejected by the Victoria's Secret supplier because it

    Redesigning the rig and forcing everyone to switch would kill the boat. No one would buy everything again just so they could race. If they went the way they added the new Radial sail, allowing both and then cut off production of the old style, that would be fine. The class will never redesign something to force everyone to buy something new, that would kill the class.
     
  11. Ross B

    Ross B Guest

    Re: Was the sailcloth actually rejected by the Victoria's Secret supplier because it

    one would obviously assume that that is the way it would be done, as it has worked before
     
  12. gouvernail

    gouvernail Active Member

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    Re: Was the sailcloth actually rejected by the Victoria's Secret supplier because it

    One might...but would anybody else assume along with One?
     
  13. Ross B

    Ross B Guest

    Re: Was the sailcloth actually rejected by the Victoria's Secret supplier because it

    nope

    because a person is smart, but a group of people are as dumb, as well, sheep!
     
  14. dyzzypyxxy

    dyzzypyxxy Member

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    Re: Was the sailcloth actually rejected by the Victoria's Secret supplier because it

    Dang, such a juicy thread, and I missed it.

    Am I too late?

    There WAS a new sail design passed around. Fred, you even tested it. It had humoungous reinforcing patches, better batten pockets, and was subtly re-cut to eliminate leech flutter and the diagonal misery that emanated from the mast join area.

    It was determined that if a better (read:less stretchy) sail material was used, the mast and boom would also have to be re-designed.


    NO idea what became of that effort. Tracy?

    Cheers Lainie
     
  15. sailingtiger

    sailingtiger New Member

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    Re: Was the sailcloth actually rejected by the Victoria's Secret supplier because it

    no sail that is use within hours should look like that crapok and other than that most laser sails do suck spend the big bucks and come to erie and ave the local guy make the sail its alot cheaper and they are the best
     
  16. gouvernail

    gouvernail Active Member

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    Re: Was the sailcloth actually rejected by the Victoria's Secret supplier because it

    There are some new prototypes being passed around. From a report on last Thursday's races in San Francisco>>>

    "One sailor used prototype sail, rumor is that it is available for other sailors to give a test sail for next few thursday night events. "


    Perhaps something will soon happen with respect to the Laser sail.
     
  17. HECS

    HECS New Member

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    Re: Was the sailcloth actually rejected by the Victoria's Secret supplier because it

    It would kill more than two birds; it would kill most Laser sailing, around here anyway.

    Imagine the typical club racer, a person who is quite happy with what they have, having to fork out about what they may have paid for their boat, just to keep racing in the Laser class. Only a few would do it straight away. Lots of them are average middle class people who are not selfish enough to tell the family "stuff the holidays we were taking; forget about new bikes for the kids - I need the cash 'cause I wanna whole new rig so that I can finish 2 minutes faster".

    The good guys, on the other hand, would lose most of the fleet they race against. And the guys they sell their old rigs to, so they can keep buying new ones.

    And for what? The "joy" of finishing about 2 minutes faster. For god's sake, if people wanted to finish earlier they would buy Megabytes, or Hobies, or Bladeriders. BUT THEY DON'T!! They choose to sail the Laser.

    Having a faster Laser is like having a bigger bonsai tree, it's just not what the class is about, or even very good at. And advocates for a "modern" rig have ignored the practicalities; what happens in the crowded rigging areas of many clubs, when rigs have to be rigged up with sails laid right out and laying down? What happens with fully battened rigs when boats are tied to a dock? (answer- they often fall over). What happens to these sails when they age (answer - they often have a much shorter back-of-the-fleet/cruising/training life and therefore are not available for entry level sailors).

    My old club had rigs of this style 40 years ago and they dropped them partly for practical reasons. I've had cambered wide-luffed fully-battened sails for decades and they are great but they have significant problems for Laser-typee boats, which is why the big UK manufacturers who run the world's strongest dinghy market have largely abandoned them. These things are only new and exciting to people in backward areas.

    I cannot see how you can get annoyed with people asking you to leave the class alone and go sail another boat if you want to change it. Many thousands of Laser sailors buy Lasers because they want LASERS. The basis of the class is that the boats are identical. Please stop trying to tell the vast majority of people in the class that they are wrong.

    What you are doing is just like those people who come into a sailing club and then vote to put a pool in the rigging area and put in a new powerboat marina where the dinghies once sailed. It's like joining a baseball team and trying to get them to play cricket. I dunno, there seems to be something very, very wrong in joining a large group of people who are happy in their shared activity, and trying to make them change the basic rules that the group runs by.

    It's even more wrong when there are already groups who do what you want them to do; in this case, the Moths, Finns, OKs, etc. If you do not like what Lasers do, then please stop whining and go find somewhere else to sail.

    There seems to be some people who are convinced that those who support the status quo are conservative or do not know about faster gear. This is completely wrong. Guys I've recently fought out races with have sailed things like wing-masted dinghies, full carbon boats, 18 Foot Skiffs, cats, Cherubs, NS 14s. Just about all of these boats are much more sophisticated than just about anything sailed where most US sailors are. And yet these sailors choose to sail Lasers.

    These people are not ignorant; they are vastly more familiar with ground-breaking boats; yet they choose to sail Lasers.

    Advocates of Moth or windsurfer-type sails should note that windsurfing is now about 8% as popular as it was when in the days when windsurfer sails looked like Laser sails. Mothing is also a lot smaller than it was many years ago. Why follow the model of two areas of sailing that have crashed in popularity?

    Okay, go for longer-lasting sails. Yes, let's reduce the excess cost. But for god's sake, no one is forcing anyone to sail Lasers so if you do not like the boat please go somewhere else.

    By the way, I notice that most of the pro-change people come from areas where sailing isn't doing all that well. Have you considered that your failure to worry about current sailors and cost is part of the problem?
     
  18. GBR 134

    GBR 134 Member

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    Re: Was the sailcloth actually rejected by the Victoria's Secret supplier because it

    HECS - one of the best worded and passionate speeches on the subject (did you get the Gouv to help?) which I am sure will be applauded by most on this forum and virtually every Laser racer who doesn't come here (if ever they get to see it). It should really end the debate for improvement - sadly it won't - Rossums will have some theory as to why, if he can't have carbon hydrofoils, he should be allowed a canard strapped to the luff for upwind and powerkites for the downwind!
     
  19. sailchris

    sailchris Member

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    Re: Was the sailcloth actually rejected by the Victoria's Secret supplier because it

    Well said.
     
  20. WPB Sailor

    WPB Sailor New Member

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    Re: Was the sailcloth actually rejected by the Victoria's Secret supplier because it

    I think all the average laser sailor is asking for is an incremental improvement, I used to sail snipes and was looking at a new Quantum main the other day. Still cloth but much improved.

    It's more than time to improve the sail...
     

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