Velocitek (sp?) Legal? Can't be...

Discussion in 'Laser Talk' started by Rob B, Apr 14, 2008.

  1. Rob B

    Rob B Active Member

    Likes Received:
    1
    Trophy Points:
    38
    A couple of guys at my club are showing up with these new fangled velositek, velocitek, whatever GPS thingys on their deck where the compass is usualy mounted. I say there is no way these things are legal.

    You can plug in the poistion of the RC boat, pin position and the device has a count down and tells you your position from the line, (among many other things like course vmg and the like).

    I was asked to buy one and I say no way. That thing has to be illegal!

    Guys tells me they used them at MWE and no one said anything to them, (but they finished last and dead last so I imagine they could have run outboards and no one would have said anything to them).

    Anyway I want to confirm my thinking that it is illegal to even have these mounted on the boat, turned on or not.

    Thoughts?
     
  2. LaserBill

    LaserBill Member

    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    6
    It has always been my impression that all such devices are illegal on a Laser.
     
  3. Chainsaw

    Chainsaw Brmmm Brmmm

    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Well, the results speak for themselves i guess. Looks like you saved some greenbacks. I have a starter watch and two eyes so I know where I am on the course. Perhaps they're suffereing from Xbox syndrome, where life is not real unless viewed on an expensive screen?
     
  4. Ross B

    Ross B Guest

    I've always wanted one for training, as you can get one that will tell you your boatspeed, which would be very handy! But I believe that a Velocitek :http://www.apsltd.com/Tree/d291000/e290034.asp

    and Tacktick Micro are currently illegal
    http://www.apsltd.com/Tree/d291000/e290420.asp

    I think the Finn is trying to make a move toward digital compass, but I am unsure as to their progress. And I know in 49ers, and 470's they are allowed to use them. I would love to use a Velocitek to know my speed, it can't be stressed how useful it is. It has compass, VMG, knotmeter and timer. Where as the Tacktick does not have the knotmeter, but does have a screen for each tack, which is very nice. This is one more rule that I wish could be changed in the Laser Class.


    *Note, the SC10, by Velocitek is Only $249, cheaper than their SC-1, but the SC10 only does real time VMG, max speed recall, and real time speed, but it is currently sold out. Most people go for the SC-1, because having a timer is better for racing.
    http://www.velocitekspeed.com/products.php
     
  5. Rob B

    Rob B Active Member

    Likes Received:
    1
    Trophy Points:
    38
    I see a huge, unfair advantage with the starting line thing and having a vmg source, (other than your eyes and regular/non-digital compass).

    You know you're doing the right thing when you are passing boats and you've screwed up when boats have passed you.

    With all the the close boat to boat action who would have time to stare at a display anyway?

    I hope we never go this way in the class. Once you open that door then we get into an arms race for gadgetry.
     
  6. SFBayLaser

    SFBayLaser Member

    Likes Received:
    2
    Trophy Points:
    18
    Technically, a GPS is an electronic compass so this falls under rule 22.
     
  7. sailchris

    sailchris Member

    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    16
    The Velocitek also provides other functions that are not specifically allowed under the class rules and is therefore even more illegal than a simple electronic compass would be.

    That said, I don't see a good reason why a simple electronic compass and timer combo like the Tacktick Micro (~$500) shouldn't be considered as a possible addition to the allowable compasses. That's about twice as expensive as an analog compass, (~$289) but the Tacktick includes a timer, so you wouldn't need to strap a watch to your mast (another $100).
     
  8. Ross B

    Ross B Guest

    Is a velocitek considered a GPS if all if does is track your speed, vmg, and do timing? I always thought of a GPS to be a navigational aid, to help you get from point to point, as in a car GPS.

    Note: In the rules it says you are not allowed to use a digital compass.
     
  9. SFBayLaser

    SFBayLaser Member

    Likes Received:
    2
    Trophy Points:
    18
    No, rule 22 says "Electronic and digital compasses are prohibited," see page 37 of the 2008 rule book.
     
  10. Ross B

    Ross B Guest

    What about the S10 version, this one does not include a compass, so is it a GPS, and verboten?

    http://www.velocitekspeed.com/products.php

    I see page 37 where it says no digital compasses allowed, but it does not say anything about GPS's, or things that track speed, vmg, and a timer combined. So as usual one must assume it's illegal?
     
  11. SFBayLaser

    SFBayLaser Member

    Likes Received:
    2
    Trophy Points:
    18
    No Ross, you cannot mount one of these devices on your boat and go racing under the current Class Rules. Compasses are specifically "authorised" (gad it hurt to type that "s") as an alteration of the fundamental rule. Other electronic devices are not.

    Can we end this now?
     
  12. Ross B

    Ross B Guest

    Of course.

    Just trying to make it as clear and specific as possible for everyone. Didn't mean to harass you Tracy, sorry about that.
     
  13. sailchris

    sailchris Member

    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    16
    It tracks your speed and VMG by tracking your position using global positioning technology, so it's a GPS. And, it can produce tracks of your position.
     
  14. Ross B

    Ross B Guest

    But you have to hook it up to a computer to see said tracks, you can't see them on the course while sailing.

    Just saying.

    I don't really consider it a REAL full fledged GPS, in the sense that a Garmin is a GPS.
     
  15. sailchris

    sailchris Member

    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    16
    It has to be a full fledged GPS to do what it does as far as VMG and speed tracking (and compass too, since it gets that data from movement tracked by GPS satellites too). The fact that it doesn't display a road map and tell you how to get to the nearest Starbucks doesn't make any difference. A Garmin GPS and the Velocitek are both GPS systems designed for different purposes.
     
  16. Ross B

    Ross B Guest

    Just stating my opinion.

    Is there something that ticks inside you saying that you have to have the last word, and win every argument?
     
  17. LooserLu

    LooserLu LooserLu

    Likes Received:
    5
    Trophy Points:
    38
    Ross you better make it a habit, to read the rules this way: If "it" is definitely permitted by the rules, " "it" is allowed to use". If "it" is 'not' definitely mentioned as allowd -> "it" is prohibited to use during a race.

    I guess, Tracy, you did told us, sometime in the past here at TLF, one may use a wrist-watch, that has a very simple electronic-compass-functionality at races, lower than the major competitions (as long as the RC and all other competitors do not have anything against it and Mr. Michon is far away, of course). Is this correct also in 2008+?

    Those electronic compasses at wrist-watches are not very helpful to locate wind shifts, but most of the modern wrist-watches for sailing in our days already come with an e-compass and to spend the extra money, only to have a "rules-legal racing wrist-watch without an e-compass", is not very good in our days, I think. F.e. a non e-compass like the Nexus/Silva 103R works very-very good to recognize also small wind-shifts (if one has the correct technique, to read precise those wind shifts with the Nexus/Silva of course ;) ;) ). The big advantage of a "non-e-compass" is: they do not need a battery...

    Ciao
    LooserLu
     
  18. Ross B

    Ross B Guest


    That is how I currently read the rules. I figure it is better for me to ask the questions for everyone else's benefit, not only for my own. But if you guys don't want me to help and ask questions, and answer other peoples questions thats fine. I'll just post on my campaign thread, and leave you guys alone, let me know.
     
  19. LooserLu

    LooserLu LooserLu

    Likes Received:
    5
    Trophy Points:
    38
    Ross, you probably may know me better from the most of my 600+ posts here at TLF. There's nothing personal against you at my reply above (and nothing behind the lines), but in the same way like you, I tell my personal experience here, too. Ross, we have a saying at GER (comes from GER-Soccer ... ... ): "Halte den Ball immer schön flach." ;)
    Ciao
    LooserLu
     
  20. sailchris

    sailchris Member

    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    16
    Yes.
     

Share This Page