Upper Mast

Discussion in 'Laser Class Politics' started by TimClark, Mar 11, 2006.

  1. TimClark

    TimClark New Member

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    In my opinion, one of the better things that the class could do for the sailors is have a carbon upper section on the mast. I would think that this would reduce the constant snapping that is going on with radial sailors. Also, I don't see why people would want the metal outhaul sleeve. I mean first of all, the outhaul is already really easy to pull in and easy to rig. And also, wouldn't there have to be another sleeve on the inside of the boom to stiffen it?

    Tim
     
  2. gouvernail

    gouvernail Active Member

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    Tim,
    About the proposed strap>>>

    I wish you knew what those of us who have seen and used the sttap know.

    The problem here is not just about you. The problem certainly is NOT your fault.
    The problem is hardly anybody has had the chance to sail with that new sleeve and therefore almost everybody has to vote based upon at best trust of those of us who have used it or at worst plain old ignorance.

    I have used the sleeve. Actually I used one of the earliest prototypes. The sleeve has been improved since I used it in early 2001.

    The sleeve is almost magical in its effectiveness and simplicity. Too good to be true. But it is true.

    The current legal outhaul may be realtively easy to pull with sufficient purchase, lubrication on the boom and special slippery line or straps.
    The very simple proposed strap is simple to pull because it offers virtually no friction.
    I was TOTALLY surprised the first time I pulled on it. I had dozens of sailors, " Pull my outhaul. You won't believe how eaeily it works and it releases itself when you want to ease the outhaul!!"

    But...as the ads say...That's not all!!

    The strap makes the sail height off the boom 100% equal for all of us and makes the Laser MORE one design.

    The strap never wears out.
    NEVER!! You could drive over it with a car and perhaps ruin it but there is no way the strap will ever wear out from sailing.

    The strap stays on your boom. It is difficult to make it come off. You can leave more stuff rigged when you go home and spend less time rigging or, even worse, looking for parts, when you get back to your boat. The strap probably saves a minute every time you rig.

    Think of the math. 180,000 sailors saving a minute when they sail 10 times a year?? Assuming the typical race takes one hour and a 5 race regatta...
    Collectively, We would save enough time to sail 60 regattas composed of 100 boat fleets!!

    Sorry, I get carried away sometimes...

    Seriously, I sailed with the strap for many weeks and the only thing I can say about it is, It is Brilliant!! It does the job. It does the job suprisingly well."


    By the way: Your comment about needing additional boom reinforcement makes no sense. The strap pulls on the sail and rig exactly as a clew tie line does. The only change in stress on current parts relates to the plastic loop and rivets at the outboard end of the boom. The strap slides more easily and probably would cause fewer failures of the outhaul fitting.

    That time you woiuld not spend fixing stuff and earning money to buy stuff would cause more sailing time but I don't feel like making upo more equasions right now. My claim of 60 100 boat regattas is already enough.

    If you want to see more photos of the strap from when I tested it in 2001 check here>>>
    http://schrothfiberglass.com/RiggingforLaser.htm
     
  3. Wavedancer

    Wavedancer Upside down? Staff Member

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    Tim: this has been discussed extensively on this forum. Just check. But it's my understanding from reading one of the old threads that the plan for a carbon upper has been shelved by Vanguard because of some breakage during testing.
     
  4. TimClark

    TimClark New Member

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    Sorry, I could have sworn that when I was looking at different pictures of the sleeve, it was about 10 inches long and it just looked really messed up. The pictures on the website you posted look a lot better than what I was under the notion of. Thanks.

    Tim
     
  5. gouvernail

    gouvernail Active Member

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    I wish every regatta had one rigged for everybody to try!!
     
  6. TimClark

    TimClark New Member

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    Yeah I would really like to try one out, I think it would a LOT easier to rig with out and I would have to deal with an outhaul that doesn't slide well...like this weekend.

    Tim
     
  7. odinsvitskjaldr

    odinsvitskjaldr Member

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    I'd like to buy one of the metal outhaul sleeves. Who sells them?
     
  8. WestCoast

    WestCoast New Member

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    the metal outhaul sleeves are not for sale yet. The class is voting on them and when they are approved, I believe they will be a manufacturers part. (aka from Vanguard)

    Everyone thinks they are a shoe in to be approved.
     
  9. Rob B

    Rob B Active Member

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    I voted against it just so I could be the ONE no vote! Ha! There's no way that won't pass.
     
  10. Jon bradbury

    Jon bradbury New Member

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    it does look really good actually shame i already got my new boat.....or id of had one from new..( saying that cos it shud get in)
     
  11. lasersailorvbc

    lasersailorvbc Member

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    When (assuming this passed) does this sleeve become legal? So when is the voting stopped and released?
     
  12. lasersailorvbc

    lasersailorvbc Member

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    does anyone know my above question?
     
  13. vtgent49

    vtgent49 Member

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    Hi,

    I just got word two weeks ago about the changes we voted on on '05, as a ILCA and NA Class member. So, I'd guess it will be about this time next year at the soonest. Then, the wholesale/retail pipeline will have to fill up... etc.

    So...have another plan for this season.

    Al Russell 182793
     
  14. Merrily

    Merrily Administrator Staff Member

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    I think that we have until July to vote. I'll have to check on that. I still haven't voted, because I'm waiting for pro/con arguments. Except for the builder supplied part, it all seems pro.
     
  15. SFBayLaser

    SFBayLaser Member

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    The voting period ends July 31. If you have not voted go vote NOW!!! (If you are a Class Member go directly to http://www.laserinternational.org/rules2006.htm and vote, if you are not a Class Member then join first and then go vote...)

    Then the rule is submitted to ISAF for approval (SOP for International Classes, especially Olympic Classes).

    If approved at the Fall meeting (hard to see it not happening) then it would come into effect at the beginng of the new year. So, presume Jan 1, 2007.

    I can't speak for suppliers but if they were willing to presume the fitting would be passed by ISAF then they could start production as soon as they knew the membership had approved it. So, I'd bet you could get one for Christmas. Unless there was some debacle in communication.
     
  16. glasky

    glasky Member

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    Re metal sleeves:

    You can achieve most of the (mechanical) advantages of the propoesed JC sleve by cutting a simple piece if plastic and threading a thin downhaul line thru it to connect a Harken hook.

    The cost of the plastic is virtually zero if you have a something like a spare synthetic shamois tube, shampoo bottle or other item of simmilar material. (maybe an old credit card or ice cream tub)

    takes only about 5 minuits to fabricate and fit, but overcomes the initial 'static' friction that 'binds' a conventional downhaul. - doesn't crate another fitting or copletely remove contact of the downhoaul from the boom and can be fabricted from 'simple chamois tube'.

    The JC sleve may however give this same 'anti-binding' result but with additional advantage of positioning the clew about 5mm closer to the boom, so I guess an extra 5mm of extra leech tension possible might be worth the cost if Stainless Steel for some??

    JC sleve is a neat solution, but heavier and at what cost? when and how can weekend warriors get it? Do they need it?


    GL
     
  17. glasky

    glasky Member

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    Not sure, but using my upper mast section with the radial seems to bend the top collar to base plug od the top section out of allignment more (and more often) than does the standard rig.

    For durability and reliable performance do we actually need a stronger (or partially sleved) top section for the current radial rig ?? - even using current aluminium technology there seems to be more spar degredation with the radial than the satandard sail.

    Appreciate some qualified engineering comments here,

    GL
     
  18. glasky

    glasky Member

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    Not sure, but using my upper mast section with the radial seems to bend the top collar to base plug od the top section out of allignment more (and more often) than does the standard rig.

    For durability and reliable performance do we actually need a stronger (or partially sleved) top section for the current radial rig ?? - even using current aluminium technology there seems to be more spar degredation with the radial than the standard sail.

    Appreciate some qualified engineering comments here,

    GL
     

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