Thoughts on Bailer replacement

Discussion in 'Sunfish Talk' started by Cdubb, Jul 18, 2016.

  1. Cdubb

    Cdubb New Member

    Likes Received:
    3
    Trophy Points:
    3
    Hi all,

    My on going craigslist project is moving forward, now I need to replace the bailer. I picked up a full kit plastic one today and I just wanted some input on it. I think I understand how to get the old metal one off but what I am wondering is when putting the new one on is there any alterations that need to be made? Also is silicone recommend for a improved seal on the hull and deck? Lastly how do the plastic ones hold up? Anyone have any comments on them? Thanks again for all the help so far.

    Regards
     
  2. beldar boathead

    beldar boathead Well-Known Member

    Likes Received:
    111
    Trophy Points:
    63
    As long as you don't drop the boat onto concrete and score a direct hit on the plastic bailer it is fine. They are a huge improvement over the metal ones. Don't use the o-ring with the plastic bailer. Just run silicone around the edge of the bailer, stick it to the hull, and tighten the "nut" from the inside without using silicone on the inside or on the threads.
     
  3. Cdubb

    Cdubb New Member

    Likes Received:
    3
    Trophy Points:
    3
    O-rings ok on the ball assembly? Just run a bead around the edge of the bailer housing in the bottom of the boat?
     
  4. Light and Variable Winds

    Light and Variable Winds Well-Known Member

    Likes Received:
    140
    Trophy Points:
    63
    Of my three [second-hand] Sunfish, none has stood the test of time. If they weren't already leaking, they have since broken the outer shell that makes them draw water out while sailing. The skipper (and passengers) must be very sensitive to its location—especially when stepping into the Sunfish on lawn, narrow ramp or dock. You'll notice the O-ring design leaves a gap between hull and bailer body. I suspect the original O-ring design was to permit some compliance against shocks and bumps, as the rubber acts like a "stand-off", while still working as an effective drain.

    P6010321.JPG

    In restoring old cars, I deal with corrosion all the time: Although I've never tried to resuscitate the Sunfish metal (DePersia) bailer, I'd try "PB Blaster" (and a tap with a hammer) several times over a week's time.

    I refuse to buy another one of these $45 plastic money-makers (or "internals kits"), and use a $5 automotive expanding rubber "freeze plug" instead. Quoted from a previous thread:

    "...A $5 "freeze plug" from an automobile supply store can replace the entire thing, and seal any leaks should the inner bailer plug or bailer body be cracked or otherwise compromised. The diameter would be 1¼", still drains rainwater, is easy to install and reduces drag. :cool: I'd suggest fitting it with a wing nut, and installing the smaller washer to the outside..."
     
  5. beldar boathead

    beldar boathead Well-Known Member

    Likes Received:
    111
    Trophy Points:
    63
    Use the o ring in the ball assembly. Also, LVW is correct if you have a 150 lb person stand on the bailer it will probably crack, so please avoid doing that!
     
  6. Rudder

    Rudder New Member

    Likes Received:
    1
    Trophy Points:
    3
    The plastic bailers as beldar said are a huge improvement and they are durable. When you are out sailing in strong winds and big waves that are filling the cockpit it is nice to have a bailer that works at getting rid of the water. The old metal ones were ok but not great. If there is any wind I usually sail with my plastic bailer open all the time as it seals so well.
     
  7. sailcraftri

    sailcraftri Well-Known Member

    Likes Received:
    47
    Trophy Points:
    48
    Class legal racing requires the outer o-ring to be used. Recreation sailing who cares. But I have had no issues using the o-ring, no leaks.
     
  8. Light and Variable Winds

    Light and Variable Winds Well-Known Member

    Likes Received:
    140
    Trophy Points:
    63
    When looking at a used Sunfish to buy, a bailer with cracks started should be noted. (Straight-out, there's $45 to be saved on the
    purchase :cool: ).

    When a Sunfish is ashore on a wood or other firm surface, should someone fall on the rear deck—or merely step inside—add their weight to a Sunfish's weight and see what happens to the bailer! :confused:

    Lately, I carry this well-used plastic bailer in my truck, searching for a solution to breakage and cracking...'will report on any ideas. One "working-theory" is to bond one or two aluminum angles longitudinally to the hull—acting as a protective skeg.

    [​IMG]

    Good observation. Would class legal racing rules specifically permit both outer o-ring and sealing of the edges?
     
  9. The Unknown Master

    The Unknown Master Member

    Likes Received:
    13
    Trophy Points:
    8
    I've been racing Sunfish since they were made of wood, and have sailed in numerous North American championships even in this decade despite my advanced years. I can assure you that class legal racing does not require the O ring to be used. For reasons I cannot figure out, perhaps as my brain has lost ago faded, the o-ring is required at the Worlds, at least when new boats are provided by the organizers. My aging brain thinks that may be because they don't want silicone used on the new boats, which are resold after the event.

    I think perhaps in Will White's seminal tome on the Sunfish, the Sunfish Bible, he suggests using the oring inside the cockpit so no one can claim that you are not using it. But I have had my boat measured many times without the oring and think Will was over thinking.

    BTW When you get to be my age you will be happy to know McLube works great on walker wheels.

    TUM
     
    • Agree Agree x 2
  10. Melnic

    Melnic New Member

    Likes Received:
    1
    Trophy Points:
    3
    I purchased this from sunfish direct to repair my '69 sunfish:
    Sunfish, Sunfish Bailer Housing w/Ball, 91029 SUN-91029 $15.00
    I just reused the plastic flange nut and rubber stopper and I was Good to Go

    I have no idea why adding the plastic flange nut and rubber stopper increases it to $40-$45

    I deal with outdoor plastics in my job. Not an expert but I can tell you that many things that are sold outdoors, don't have the proper plastic chemistry to deal with the sun. Between UV rays and temperature fluctuations, that plays havoc on many plastics. Much of the Automotive industry has figured things out. not so sure how well the boating industry figured things out in the 70's. It could be that new stuff is better than 15 year old stuff but I can tell you, they did not design it to last 20 years.
    My opinion is if your sunfish bailer is not out in the sun and you cover it, your plastic parts will last longer. But as I pointed out, its $15 for the part that I had to replace. I'm not going to make an effort to cover mine. I don't ever need to put onto pavement. mostly loose smooth rocks.
     
  11. Webfoot1

    Webfoot1 Active Member

    Likes Received:
    37
    Trophy Points:
    28
    Call me out of the loop but I think plastic sucks when it comes to the test of time. I generally collects 1950,s water stuff like outboards and such and enjoy the pre-plastic age for how long things would last. I never miss snagging a metal bailer or metal rudder Sunfish bracket on e-bay although the De-Persa bailer caps go for a crazy price. Now if someone with a home deposition machine could turn out some ABS bailer cap replacements I would not mind a bit!
     
  12. Light and Variable Winds

    Light and Variable Winds Well-Known Member

    Likes Received:
    140
    Trophy Points:
    63
    Thanks for the tip. :) That's a much more reasonable approach to the problem. 'Guess I'll buy a few, and afix a metal skeg—alongside.

    A "home deposition machine" is a "3-D Printer"? :confused:

    Sounds like a job for a "3-D Printer"! You could pump 'em out—become a millionaire! :)
     
  13. mixmkr

    mixmkr Active Member

    Likes Received:
    70
    Trophy Points:
    28
    Why has no one installed a regular Anderson bailer, albeit a tad expensive, but actually work? If you're not racing, might be the item of choice over the plastic stuff. untitled.png
     
  14. Light and Variable Winds

    Light and Variable Winds Well-Known Member

    Likes Received:
    140
    Trophy Points:
    63
    But ABS is plastic. :confused:

    A 3-D printer at home can print in metal:
    [​IMG]
     
  15. Webfoot1

    Webfoot1 Active Member

    Likes Received:
    37
    Trophy Points:
    28
    I ordered a metal bailer plug and they sent me this stupid gun instead! Anyway went the the hardware to get
    a 3/4 pvc cap. No go, De-Persia uses some odd size. Look like a rubber plug is called for. Some guy has been
    selling a dozen new caps on E-Bay. If I thought they were worth blowing $50 bucks for I'd get one. All you 3-D
    printer guys, you can make $30 a cap although I'd probably only pay $25 for one.
     
  16. Light and Variable Winds

    Light and Variable Winds Well-Known Member

    Likes Received:
    140
    Trophy Points:
    63
    Although the original Sunfish bailers look better by comparison, DePersia once made plastic bailers as seen at eBay—$20/Complete/NOS—is available next week :): VINTAGE BOAT De Persia SCUPPER BAILER Self Bailing drain water deck valve U.S.A.

    I'm wondering if it would be possible to use the present DePersia metal bailer bottom to cast a new plug using West® epoxy? Mix shredded fiberglass strands into a mix with their various beads and powders? Cast a handle into it at the same time? I'll email my buddy who uses West® epoxy all the time. Spray PAM® is suggested as a release agent, but I'd ask the pros first.

    Use the gun to install a new Anderson bailer. :D
     
  17. mixmkr

    mixmkr Active Member

    Likes Received:
    70
    Trophy Points:
    28
    Fwiw i have one of tbe old Depersia bailers and I personally don't think it works all that great. Its in great condition but you have to be really moving for it to even start to work
     
  18. Melnic

    Melnic New Member

    Likes Received:
    1
    Trophy Points:
    3
    My son has a 3D printer.
    You guys want the bolt part? or the rubber plug (I can't print anything in rubber)
    Caps are $10
    Bailer Cap Only
     
  19. Webfoot1

    Webfoot1 Active Member

    Likes Received:
    37
    Trophy Points:
    28
    Looking for the old style brass DePersia type. You would have to have a actual cap/bailer unit in hand to try
    to make a replica cap ABS cap. Threads would be part that could kill the project as the printer probably will
    not have enough resolution to make the threads fine/sharp enough.
     
  20. Cdubb

    Cdubb New Member

    Likes Received:
    3
    Trophy Points:
    3
    This is what I have, I am having second thoughts on replacing it, at least right now. What am I lacking? I think just the plug itself
     

    Attached Files:

Share This Page