The Phantom sailboat is back!

Discussion in 'Sunfish Talk' started by beldar boathead, Jul 15, 2009.

  1. beldar boathead

    beldar boathead Well-Known Member

    Likes Received:
    111
    Trophy Points:
    63
    Every once in a while someone with a Phantom stops by our forum. Everyone thought (I think) that they are no longer made. But they are! So if anyone stops by, we can direct them here for info and parts: http://www.j-pointmarine.com/index.htm

    I think they should get a better sailmaker - those sails do not look so good. I also wonder why they changed the name.

    If you visit the Point Marine site, does anyone recognize what a Pointer 12 originally was - I don't recognize that hull. I doubt they built a new mold - I suspect that like the Phantom, they found an old mold and turned whatever the boat was into a Pointer 12.

    BB
     
  2. Oceanfish

    Oceanfish sailing addict

    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    6
    the only thing that comes to me as for the pointer 12 is that it resembles a zuma with a larger cockpit. but i agree pointer wouldnt make a new mold. theyre too cheap,
     
  3. Wayne

    Wayne Member Emeritus

    Likes Received:
    6
    Trophy Points:
    0
    When J-Point Marine appeared on the scene a couple of years back a lot of rumors were flying around about the return of the Phantom. Since then Phantom owners steered their way have reported back they are polite, but non-committal about supporting the Phantom. "Maybe down the road" has been the most often related reply to parts inquiries.

    I surmise J-Point didn't buy Phantom as a brand, they bought the defunct company's shop equipment..., and maybe the molds to modify into their own, unrelated line of boats.



    I always pictured the Zuma as a wide-body Laser
    [​IMG]


    The Pointer 12 strikes me more as a generic dink/dinghy like so many found regionally around the country.


    [​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG]
     
  4. beldar boathead

    beldar boathead Well-Known Member

    Likes Received:
    111
    Trophy Points:
    63
    Strange about not selling parts....I would assume that someday, some part on a Pointer 14 is going to break and they are going to have to sell their customers a replacement part. And since they are the same parts......

    Unusual business model!
     
    • Agree Agree x 2
  5. Wayne

    Wayne Member Emeritus

    Likes Received:
    6
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Oh, I think they'll sell you Pointer parts, but those aren't the same as Phantom. For example, take a look at the rudder..., completely different...., no longer a proprietary design, now using off-the-shelf RWO head, bracket assembly, and tiller.
    [​IMG]
     
    • Creative Creative x 1
  6. 67stang

    67stang Member

    Likes Received:
    2
    Trophy Points:
    8
    Oh, I think they'll sell you Pointer parts, but those aren't the same as Phantom. For example, take a look at the rudder..., completely different...., no longer a proprietary design, now using off-the-shelf RWO head, bracket assembly, and tiller.

    I noticed the new Pointer tiller/ rudder a while back, being also a Phantom owner, I like the old Phantom kick up rudder style better than what they offer now.

    [​IMG]
    [/quote]
     
  7. Wayne

    Wayne Member Emeritus

    Likes Received:
    6
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Might be the old Howmar 12, but there seem to be a lot of differences.
    [​IMG] [​IMG]
     
  8. baseman

    baseman On the Water

    Likes Received:
    17
    Trophy Points:
    18
    Ok I'm new here, but I stumbled accross this thread looking for Phantom information. I bought a 1981 Phantom and I was curious. If any of you own a Phantom, was there some sort of spring mechanism to keep the rudder from floating up while under way? There is a hole in the rudder, but I'm not quite sure what it's for. Any suggestions would be great.
     
  9. Webfoot

    Webfoot New Member

    Likes Received:
    1
    Trophy Points:
    0
    If the hole is midway or towards the lower ended of the rudder it may have been a metal weight to hold the rudder down.
     
  10. 67stang

    67stang Member

    Likes Received:
    2
    Trophy Points:
    8
    .....no springs involved in the Phantom's rudder, just 2 pivoting bolts. It is a simple locking mechanisim, with the tiller pushed back, the rudder stays down, slighly lift and pull forward, the rudder kicks up and stays until you lift the tiller and move it back. I'll attach a pic to show you.....please excuse the corrosion on the lower rudder bracket, it still works perfectly.
     

    Attached Files:

  11. baseman

    baseman On the Water

    Likes Received:
    17
    Trophy Points:
    18
    67Stang - thanks for the info.
    My rudder doesn't stay down. I have to keep pushing it down with the tiller. Maybe I should tighten the tiller pivot bolt
     
  12. 67stang

    67stang Member

    Likes Received:
    2
    Trophy Points:
    8

    Baseman- You say that you can't see the pics? I'll attach some new ones from another tiller/rudder that I have. I don't think tightening the pivot bolt will solve the problem that you are having, it will just make kicking the rudder up stiffer. In the pic, you will see a "cam" tab on the tiller straps, that locks the rudder in down position. When lifting the tiller up and over, the "cam " stop, (forward) it pulls the rudder up and to another "cam" stop, holding it in up position. It takes the lifting of the tiller to go to and from postions. Is the "cam" worn out on your tiller straps?
    If you still can't view the pics, I can e mail them to ya
     

    Attached Files:

  13. baseman

    baseman On the Water

    Likes Received:
    17
    Trophy Points:
    18
    67Stang. I had taken all the hardware off the rudder to refinish it. I'm not sure if the cam is worn out or not. I did tighten the bolt a bit. I'll know Saturday if it works.
    BTW - If you ever feel like racing, there are races most weekends on Bow Lake. It's mostly Lightnings, but most of the races are open to other classes. I'm going up on Sat. Hopefully some of the Sunfish will show up.
    I can see the pics after I hit post reply, but not in the main thread.
     
  14. FlashGordon

    FlashGordon New Member

    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    It's likely that the previous owner bought a Sunfish rudder...which is drilled for the spring mechanism. Caution though...the Sunfish Gudgeon (receiver on the hull for the rudder) has different dimensions than the Phantom, so the pintle pin assys are not interchangeable.
    Does anyone have experience replacing the Phantom Gudgeon with a Sunfish Gudgeon?
     
  15. FlashGordon

    FlashGordon New Member

    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Did you find a supplier of Phantom 14 rudders? The picture looks like a new rudder assembly. I'm curious because I have a Phantom 14 and have been unable to find replacement parts. I acquired the sailboat with the lakefront place, and the rudder was missing.
     
  16. baseman

    baseman On the Water

    Likes Received:
    17
    Trophy Points:
    18
    Flash - you may want to contact J-point marine. They don't have parts listed online. Ig the pic of the new rudder in this thread is accurate, the rudder looks different but the bracket is the same.

    I might have a sunfish rudder, but I have the Phantom bracket I tightendthe tiller bolt and things are working fine now.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  17. 67stang

    67stang Member

    Likes Received:
    2
    Trophy Points:
    8

    ...So, they were miss matched (Phantom hardware and a Sunfish rudder blade)?
     
  18. FlashGordon

    FlashGordon New Member

    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    The Phantom 14 came with the property here. The rudder assy was missing. I tried to find Phantom parts and was pointed to J-Point Marine. Their Pointer 14 appears to be made from the same mold as the Phantom 14. However the rudder assy is quite different.
    I then incorrectly assumed that the Phantom and the Sunfish shared the same rudder hardware, and ordered Sunfish parts. They are not the same. The Sunfish rudder hardware does not fit the Phantom Gudgeon (bracket on the stern intended to accept the rudder). The outside vertical dimension of the Sunfish rudder hardware is about 3 13/16 inches, so with the washers top and bottom it appears that the Sunfish Gudgeon inside vertical dimension is about 4 inches. The Phantom 14 gudgeon has an inside dimension of about 3 5/16 inches. That means that it is a full 1/2 inch smaller even without the washers.
    I have ordered a Sunfish gudgeon, and hope to be able to drill it to accept the Phantom 14 bolt pattern so that the hull will not have to be modified.
     
  19. baseman

    baseman On the Water

    Likes Received:
    17
    Trophy Points:
    18
    The J-point marine rudder may look different, but the Gudgeon is still the same. The Jpoint rudder should work on older Phantoms.

    Here are some pics of my rudder blade. I don't know if it's original (I'm at least the third owner of this boat)
     

    Attached Files:

  20. 67stang

    67stang Member

    Likes Received:
    2
    Trophy Points:
    8

    I own both, an 1982 and 1990 Phantoms. I also have the sales lit and rigging sheets to the 82. The rudders are both composite materials as well as the daggers. The hardware is the same also. The tiller extentions are a bit different. My 82 extention is similar to yours. My trailer lic. plate is similar to yours too (live free or die)!
     

Share This Page