Swivel arm base cam cleat

Discussion in 'Sunfish Talk' started by bluefish, Jul 1, 2009.

  1. bluefish

    bluefish Lake Sailor

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    Does anyone have experience with a Swivel Base Cam Cleat? Harken sells the 205 cam base cleat.....Ronstan sells the RF7....they are both designed to use with a 57 mm block. I do race, but I do recreationally sail and really miss having a cam cleat (I have a new boat and have a Harken ratchet block and no cam cleat).

    Any thoughts? I am familiar with the argument of "no" never use a cleat it will make you flip....so that isn't my concern....I mostly sail in light light air on lakes in Maine....I'm interested in the hardware itself and if anyone has had good or bad experiences with either a Harken or Ronstan. The Ronstan is adjustable to 3 different levels, the Harken is not.

    Ronstan model # RF7:
    http://www.ronstan.com/marine/product.asp?ProdNo=RF7

    Harken model # 205:
    http://www.apsltd.com/c-325-cam-cleat-swivel-bases-cam-arms-other-mountings.aspx

    Thanks....
     
  2. Wayne

    Wayne Member Emeritus

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    I don't think you want any of those.

    [​IMG]

    The long, raised cleat arm design is for sheeting off the cockpit floor. If you install one of this design and hike out you have no leverage to be able to uncleat.

    The Harken 241 style allows uncleating from a hiked-out position, especially if you bend the base plate down a couple of degrees.

    [​IMG]

    ...just unscrew the fairlead and screw down an eyestrap... now you can add a ratchet block.
     
  3. acs026

    acs026 Member

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    I use the 241 on both of my boats and have not had any problems. as long as you can uncleat your fine.
     
  4. daknecht

    daknecht New Member

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    I bought the 240 style Harken cleat, but now I am trying to install it and am not sure how. There is not enough space between the centerboard trunk and the cockpit to get three bolts with washers (I have an access port on the deck). I could put two in that way and the third into the cockpit edge, but I am not sure what I would be drilling into. Suggestions?
     
  5. acs026

    acs026 Member

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    they should all be able to go in the edge of the cockpit.
     

    Attached Files:

  6. NightSailor

    NightSailor Captain

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    My favorite is the Harken 205 with a stand up Carbo ratchet block. Lead Angle is good without any special pads.

    I have one boat with just a stand up ratchet block without the swivel base. Not shown.


    [​IMG]

    Carbo Standup Block
    [​IMG]

    Standard stand up ratchet block.
    [​IMG]

    Thanks for the post you reminded me I need to change out the ringy dings for cotter pins!
    [​IMG]
     
  7. NightSailor

    NightSailor Captain

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    You should be able to access all three holes from the cockpit.

    Do you have a Sunfish or a clone?
     
  8. daknecht

    daknecht New Member

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    Thanks for the pictures and advice. I looked again more carefully and I can see that there was more room under the cockpit lip than I thought. Will do the install soon.
     
  9. Memnar

    Memnar Member

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    I would add a cam cleat but since the boat is for my small boys and wife learning to sail- and its gusty in New Mexico - it would only make them dump it over more often....

    -Erik
     
  10. NightSailor

    NightSailor Captain

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    There is another thread on this subject with lots of other peoples opinions and many pictures. You might want to check it out.

    Use the link below, or just do a search for Harken 205

    http://www.sunfishforum.com/showthread.php?t=28892&highlight=harken+205

    Look at Waynes Post #11 the picture on the left is a nice setup for racing, that I plan to try on one of my boats which already has a standup block as shown. I like that cam cleat on the side face of the front edge of the tub.
     
  11. NightSailor

    NightSailor Captain

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    So that double cleat setup is for fine and gross trim! I've never seen one like that on a keelboat.
     
  12. Wayne

    Wayne Member Emeritus

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    The APS picture just lumped all their Harken extended arm bases in one photo. That particular model has no bearing on the topic at hand, it just came along for the ride.

    I have never encountered one either, not on racers or cruisers of any size. Here's the description from the Harken catalog:
     
  13. bluefish

    bluefish Lake Sailor

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    Re: Swivel arm base cam cleat and H240 / H241

    Thank you all so much for all this GREAT information!
    So my next question is, what's the difference between the Harken 240 and Harken 241? Is it just the size line it can handle?
     
  14. NightSailor

    NightSailor Captain

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    Re: Swivel arm base cam cleat and H240 / H241

    The 240 takes up to 1.2" line (around $65)

    The 241 takes up to 3/8" line (around $55 ?? Not sure)

    The problem with these is they wear on the bulls-eye. You get two grooves one for each tack. They still work fine and provide some friction. Some people don't like the fact they wear normally in that area.

    What else, the look identical to me. Harken often offers cheaper products that are good in a more limited range of rope sizes. If you think you will only use 3.8" line, the smaller one will save you money.

    I prefer a real block and of course I like a cleat too.
     
  15. bluefish

    bluefish Lake Sailor

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    Harken 240/241

    Thanks...I was thinking of trying taking off the fairlead and attached a block to one of these and wasn't sure which one to get...so if they are the same except for the fairlead and how big a line it takes, it wouldn't matter since I'll be taking off the fairlead.
     
  16. Petrel

    Petrel Member

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    Wayne's Variations -- Re: Swivel arm base cam cleat

    I finally got to view the images that Wayne attached to this thread. I like the first two options, but have a few questions (and I've tried to first get info/answers searching here and at vendors:

    1. Is the Harken 019 Hexaratchen block the one where you have to manually flip a switch to engage the ratchet? And is the Harken 2625 the block where you can set it to automatically operate when the block detects a certain (preset?) sheet tension?
    Other than price, any advantage or disadvantage to one or the other? Is is a bother to reach over and set/unset the switch? Or, with the HA 2625, it is inconvenient to have that preset tensioning. [I hope I'm understanding them correctly. The vendor sites don't give much detail.

    2. Regarding the standup spring. I have looked for a Harken stand up spring and don't see one. Part number? Do the blocks come with these springs? Does the Ronstan spring fit? Anyway to tell before I order it? I'm not close to any marine or sailboat parts vendors, although, for the next day or so I am in Portland, ME area.

    I want to attach the block to the lip of the cockpit. I don't have enough detail on how either just the block with a spring attaches, or the swivel cam with block attaches. And I guess you still use a standup spring for this, but I cannot see if it slides over the shackle or if there is some other part I'm missing.

    Also, I get that if I elect that option, I replace the bullseye fairlead with an eyestrap (I just mosey around the store looking for one where the screwholes will line up with those in the swivel unit? Harken part 241? So then does the spring just go over the shackle to keep it from flopping over, that is, to keep it upright?

    I have the standard diameter mainsheet line (I think it's 3/8") so I should be okay with either the HA 019 or the HA 2625, is that correct?

    So far I've only been able to sail a canoe and my "cooler" (Snark foam boat), but that's been fun. I can't wait to get a real SF rigged and launched. :cool:
     
  17. Boardwax680

    Boardwax680 Privateer

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  18. Petrel

    Petrel Member

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    Answering my own post ;)

    I went to the boat shop and got my answers. The fellow there showed me how to hook up the standup spring. I got a Harken switch on ratchet block (I think the H2135) with the spring and an eyestrap. If I think I must ever cleat, I can add that later per Wayne's "cheapy fix" photo or use the hook with a loop.

    The boat store no longer carried the Harkin 019. They also had the Vanguard red and black one for a few dollars less, but he sincerely thought the Harken was made a bit better.

    I got good sized ss washers for backplates. I can barely wait to get back home and install it. (On a sort of working vacation now.).

    Boardwax -- why did you opt for the HA 241? So that you could you larger diameter line? That is some wild avatar (whatisit?).
     
  19. NightSailor

    NightSailor Captain

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    Re: Wayne's Variations -- Re: Swivel arm base cam cleat


    The self tensioning ratchet block is adjustable with an Allen key.
     
  20. Petrel

    Petrel Member

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    Thanks, Nightsailer.

    The fellow at the boat shop explained that to me.
    I opted for just a simple system for starters.
    BTW, I can't recall if I told you or posted this, but I remember reading that you were going to go with the non-white, 5" Vanguard deck plates. At the sunfishsailboats site, I noticed that they did have the 5" WHITE ports. So, if you really want to stay with the white, vs the clear cover, you can do that.
     

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