Super Sailfish MKII Inspection ports

Discussion in 'Sunfish Talk' started by soltman, Jun 15, 2016.

  1. soltman

    soltman New Member

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    Hi folks,

    New to the forum and new owner of a super sailfish in need of some TLC. Foam is definitely waterlogged so will need to dry it out. There is currently a crack/hole in the deck about 3" behind and to port of the bow handle. crack is large enough for me to get fingers in to feel foam and confirm it is soaked. I am an old hat and comfortable working with glass, but was thinking of incorporating the cracked area into my bow inspection plate area to minimize the need to repair with glass. I currently have 12" watertight deck plates on hand and am considering using one of the them for the bow. Any thoughts from the group? Assuming it is a bit overkill, but figured it would allow easy access to the hull and foam, make the drying process easier, and save me some money as I already have the plates. Anyone know of any detriment or compromise to the hull integrity by going with a 12" inspection port? I can take a couple pictures and add them if it would help to visualize better.

    Thank you in advance and appreciate any guidance or advice offered.

    Kind regards,
    Brian
     
  2. Light and Variable Winds

    Light and Variable Winds Well-Known Member

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    Pictures would help: Super Sailfish are only seen here occasionally. Listed as a Super Sailfish:

    [​IMG]

    If you can use a smaller inspection port, that's what I would do: they're big enough for drying-out, and not all that expensive. A 12-incher on a curved deck would look ugly, not help with hull integrity, and would require some building-up of a base to prevent the cover from binding. (Even six-inch inspection ports tend to bind on curved decks).
     
  3. soltman

    soltman New Member

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    Light and Variable Winds,
    Beautiful Sailfish you have there, and thank you very much for your reply and input. I thought maybe the bow would be flat enough to work a 12" without having to do any buildup? The deck plates I have are press lids as well not a screw in type. Attached some pictures with the damaged area and the inspection ports I have. Let me know if you have any additional thoughts. Disclaimer: I have done nothing to the boat at this point other than bring it home and roll it over so please excuse the filth and current state of the hull. Masts are in great shape, all caps in good order and in place as well as bronze/brass gooseneck. Tiller and Daggerboard show some wear but intact and usable. Intend on cutting new rails out of composite or wood. First need to address the waterlogged foam/weight, then need to find an inexpensive sail. Regarding the weight, is it really necessary for me to weigh before and after drying or is that more a curiosity factor for people? Question regarding sails... Are Sunfish and Sailfish sails interchangeable or do I need to get a sail specific for the Sailfish?
    IMG_8183.JPG IMG_8184.JPG IMG_8185.JPG IMG_8186.JPG IMG_8187.JPG

    Thank you again to all who reply for your time and comments.

    Regards,
    Brian
     
  4. Light and Variable Winds

    Light and Variable Winds Well-Known Member

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    Weighing it before/after will tell you when to stop the dry-out process.

    I believe the sails from the Minifish are the same sail area, and interchangeable but someone here who knows for sure can answer that. Do you have the spars? Their lengths would tell you.

    The deck looks flat enough, after all. With the pop-in covers, you'll know soon enough! ;) If you haven't used the pop-ins before, they're difficult to open, even with a screwdriver. I used a combination paint can opener/bottle opener (which is made with a hook on one end).
     
  5. fhhuber

    fhhuber Member

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    If a Minifish sail fits, you can cut down a sunfish sail if you run into a cheap used one.

    If its supposed to have the booms at the same angle as Sunfish/Minifish, then with boom lengths the places that sell low cost Sunfish sails can make one the correct size.

    Such as: Parts & Sails for The Sunfish®
    (lowest cost new replacement sails and parts for Sunfish I know of)
     
  6. beldar boathead

    beldar boathead Well-Known Member

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    Sunfish and Super Sailfish sails are the same dimensions, as the booms are the same length. I'd get a standard Sunfish sail or knockoff and not a racing sail. The racing sail has more power and that won't be needed on a Sailfish!
     
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  7. soltman

    soltman New Member

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    Thanks for the confirmation on the sails Beldar. Going to start looking for a used sail on this forum, craigslist, etc.
     
  8. soltman

    soltman New Member

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    Been tied up with work so just getting back to the forum here. First off, thanks again for all the great information! I do have the spars and thanks to Beldar Boathead I have confirmation that a sunfish sail will work. I did have a chance to weigh the old girl this week. put a large paver stone down, placed bathroom scale on that and balanced her on her side on the scale about midships. And the verdict is.... She's heavy, REALLY heavy! She's currently @ 230 lbs. I'm now contemplating where I should make my cuts for the inspection ports, then will begin the drying process.
     
  9. signal charlie

    signal charlie Active Member Staff Member

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    Waterlogged is an uderstatement, the SSMKII is supposed to weigh around 100. I think up to 110 is acceptable as we all gain a little weight as we get older and boats from that time frame tended to have a lot of excess spray foam. There's another member who started a SS MKII project in here and cut the deck up. Here is the photo they took of where the blocks are. You should try to avoid those areas on the sides as that white foam provides structural support and flotation.There also would have been a block centered in the bow area, probably 18-24 inches long and 3-4 inches wide, it won't be detrimental to remove a little bit of that foam in the bow. Most of your weight will probably be in the yellow expanding foam that holds the white blocks in place.

    I like the idea of adding the plate, it is great to be able to check inside and dry the boat out.

    The SS MKII deck is pretty flat, there will be minimal hull integrity loss with those plates, but up at the bow you may have to cut some white foam away to get past it. Keep the white foam and add it to another part of the hull or put it back into place (loose) when the plate lid goes back on. You can see from the design that the mast step and dboard trunk carry a lot of the load for where you sit and where the sail goes, and the two long blocks. You might want a 6 inch port between the dboard trunk and mast step as well, so you can fix leaks in that area and check on the backer blocks for the halyard block and cleat. And there may be reason to add one at the stern to check backer blocks there and get the most circulation for the drying process.

    Those red and blue stripes on the bow scream 1968, and the serial number falling in the 48000-59000 range would confirm it.

    The Super Sailfish (wooden, 13' 7") and the SSMKII (fiberglass, 13' 7") mast spars and sail are the same size as the all Sunfish. Spars are 13 ' 9"(+/-) with 1 1/2 diameter; mast 10' long with a 2 inch diameter and the sail is 75 square feet. The old style rudder rudder fitting vertical plate is around 4 inches on the Standard Sailfish (wood), Super Sailfish (wood), SSMKII (fiberglass) and the wooden Sunfish. The old style vertical plate on the fiberglass Sunfish is longer because the hull deepened into more of a V and a bigger keel was added.


    Sailfish foam blocks.jpg
     
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  10. soltman

    soltman New Member

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    Signal Charlie, you are my new best friend on the forum lol! Thank you for the wealth of information, and that picture is gold!! In preparation of cutting my first access hole I had actually been scouring the web for days looking for a diagram of the Sailfish hull and foam layout. The pic you provided is even better than what I was hoping for. I did cut my first inspection port (a 12") aft of the daggerboard trunk in the middle of the seating area. Chose this spot primarily because the deck was flat, I could tell there was no foam under the deck in this area, and figured the large plate didn't look bad in that location. I have a small West Marine warm air circulator which I shoved into the opening, then taped some window screen material over the opening to keep out any unwanted occupants. The circulator has been running for a few days now and I can already see and feel the results of the foam drying out. Going to dry her a bit more before putting her on the scale again. I was next intending on as you suggested cutting smaller ports in the bow and stern areas to access hardware backing blocks, and further the drying process.

    Thank you as well for the confirmation on the year of manufacture. It is really great to have such a bunch of knowledgeable folks on the forum and be able to tap into that knowledge and expertise.
     
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  11. signal charlie

    signal charlie Active Member Staff Member

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    Hola Soltman, that's why we are here, to share and learn. I am really glad that we had the image to share.

    One thing you may notice is that while the expanding foam may feel dry on the surface, if you push a putty knife into it then water will ooze out. Realizing that it serves to keep the flotation block in place, I scoop out as much as I can without disturbing the white blocks. I also use Fibreglast 2 part expanding foam (2 lb/cu ft) that is marine grade if I need to resecure a block. The Great Stuff stiff is not meant to be in the water.

    Now what the factory guys would have done for that would have been to split the deck in specific areas, removed the wet foam and replaced it. Then reseal the deck seam. Oh, and repair the leak area(s) as well. I am going to guess that your boat has a popped seam somewhere as well as the deck hole, you can do an air leak test at one point and look for bubbles.

    Which daggerboard does your SSMKII have, or how long is it?

    kb
     
  12. soltman

    soltman New Member

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    Before starting the drying process I did notice that pressing on the expanding foam it was like wringing out a sponge. Good idea on reducing the excess beyond what is needed to hold the blocks in place. Thank you as well on the Fiberglast tip. I will check the product out for sure.

    Initially I had considered drilling out the rivets holding the seam trim, removing the trim and splitting the deck, but then decided to hold off at least until after cutting the first inspection port. With the drying success achieved thus far via the first inspection port, I am going to try to push on with 2 more smaller access holes (one somewhere ahead of the mast step, one near the stern). Beside the deck hole at the bow, there is some damage to the transom. Incidentally I am in need of a old rudder/tiller style Latch Plate as it appears whatever caused the transom damage took the latch plate clean off. Perhaps where the majority of the water was added to the foam as well. I figure the inspection port at the stern (besides assisting with the drying) should allow me to repair and reinforce the transom damage on the inside of the hull in addition to the exterior and will also afford the ability to place some backing blocks for the transom hardware whether I stay with old style or move to the new style tiller hardware.

    Picture of my daggerboard is attached. Looks to be 31 inches in length. Has anyone recreated their daggerboard and tiller from Taco or similar composite material?
    IMG_8288.JPG
     
  13. signal charlie

    signal charlie Active Member Staff Member

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    Hi Soltman

    You should post here in the Wanted Ads for those rudder fittings, the SSMKII assembly has a shorter vertical plate than the fiberglass Sunfish and they are hard to find. In order to use a longer vertical plate or new style rudder you'd might have to add shims on the top and/or bottom but it should work. You could even blend it in with fiberglass deck.

    I'd also suggest upgrading to the bigger daggerboards, they run about 39 inches for the Shadow or Barrington boards or 44+ for the plastic boards.
     
  14. Drew Johnson

    Drew Johnson New Member

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    Can any of the Sailfish folks let me know if it's normal for the center deck area behind the daggerboard to have some give or be a little flexible? based on the pictures posted by Signal Charlie, I can see that this center area isn't supported by foam so I'm unsure it this is just a reality of the design or soft deck due to delamination of the fiberglass. I would feedback based on your boat/experience.
     
  15. rhm

    rhm New Member

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    I'm no expert, since I only just got my Sailfish (fiberglass, early 60's as far as I can tell) on Thursday. But my deck, the area where I sit when sailing, has about an inch of give.
     

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