Sunfish Worlds Start Today

Discussion in 'Sunfish Talk' started by THE COOKIE PIMP, May 21, 2005.

  1. THE COOKIE PIMP

    THE COOKIE PIMP New Member

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    THE WORLDS START TODAY CHECK OUT THE WEB SITE AT SUNFISH HOME PAGE LINK. THE BOATS ARE BEAUTIFUL :) I WANT ONE! GUESS I HAVE TO CALL ANDY AT TACKLE SHACK. IT WON'T MAKE ME ANY FASTER BUT THEY ARE GOOD LOOKING.

    LET'S SEE IF :confused: I BUY ONE FOR MOMMA? I DON'T HAVE TO FIX HER'S... :) SHE WILL NOT WANT THE NEW DODGE VIPER :eek: ENOUGH MONEY LEFT OVER FOR ME TO GET ONE :p BOY WAS THET WHAT I CALL A WET DREAM ;)

    I DO THINK THE USA HAS A GOOD CHANCE TO WIN FOR THE FIRST TIME IN MANY YEARS :rolleyes: IF DAVE MENDELBLATT,JEFF LINTON,CORNNER BLOUIN (THE DAVIS ISLAND CONNECTION) AND TOM WHITEHURST, TODD EDWARDS ARE THERE ANY ONE OF THEM CAN GET HOT AND TAKE IT ALL.

    MY MONEY IS ON DAVE HE IS THE BEST SUNFISH SAILOR I'VE EVER SEEN.
    TO JUST JUMP IN THE BOAT LAST YEAR NOT KNOWING ALL THE QUIRKS OF THE BOAT AND START WINNING AT THE TOP LEVEL JUST IMPRESSED ME. I
    THINK IF JEFF IS THERE WITH HIS GREAT SKILLS AND DESIRE TO WIN HE COULD PULL IT OFF TOO AND IF THE WIND STAY'S LIGHT CONNER CAN GIVE THEM ALL HELL. :cool:

    GOOD LUCK TO ALL OF THEM :D
     
  2. Old Geezer

    Old Geezer Member

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    NO NEED TO SHOUT.

    In any case it doesn't look like Linton, Edwards or Blouin are there. MIA along with a lot of other US Sailors you would normally expect to see at the Worlds. In fact it looks like there are only 7 US Sailors. Is this the lowest turnout by an American team at the Sunfish Worlds ever?

    Only 47 sailors in total entered - is this another record for low turnout? And of those 47, over 20 are local sailors, most of them bringing up the tail-end of the fleet. Is this a World Championship or a local regatta for the Martinique Sunfish fleet and a few invited guests?
     
  3. KingFish

    KingFish New Member

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    I don't understand why the World's are an annual event? What is the purpose of running this regatta annually? J24s, Lightnings all have have their World's every other year. It isn't like we have a huge Jr. following that age requirements are an issue like an optimist. I don't understand can someone explain it to me?

    Also, if you hold the regatta every year it lessens the honor, why you ask, because it should be a desination regatta. In other words every July in an even year (2006, 2008) you know where you aspire to sail....The Sunfish Worlds! Sailors will mark their calendars around this event and it would be the best of the best...not the open enrollment it is today!

    Any comments?
    King Fish....
     
  4. beldar boathead

    beldar boathead Well-Known Member

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    I think the smallest worlds were in Kingston, Ontario back in 1984. I think it was 44 boats, almost all Americans, as the event was organized with perhaps 2 months notice. BB
     
  5. Old Geezer

    Old Geezer Member

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    I agree. As that well known Sunfish sailor Groucho Marx said, "I don't want to sail in any world championship that would accept me as an entrant."
     
  6. Wavedancer

    Wavedancer Upside down? Staff Member

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    Getting the impression that there wasn't a whole lot of wind Sunday through Tuesday. Only four races in three days and the pictures don't show anything death defying either.

    With respect to US participation, travel to Martinique was time-consuming and expensive. But this has been discussed before.

    Wavedancer
     
  7. Old Geezer

    Old Geezer Member

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    Geeze - it takes time and money to compete in a World Championship for an international class? What a shocker.

    Of course if the class were truly international you might have to travel to Australia or Asia some years too.
     
  8. THE COOKIE PIMP

    THE COOKIE PIMP New Member

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    Geezer I Think Their Is A Good International Flavor Showing. Peru.venezuela.bahama's.bermuda,argentina.martinique. I Know A Few Sailors That Have Worked For Years Promoting Sunfish In The Carabean And South Anerica.and It Shows By Their Attendance.
    Also The Int Masters Is In Holland Next Month Are You Going. IT'S NOT AUSTRAILIA. IT IS A CHANCE TO GET OUT OF DODGE. I HEAR EVEN AN OLD GEEZER MIGHT GET LUCKY WINDOW SHOPPING :eek: AND FIND SOMETHING TO SPEND HIS MONEY ON :p

    To Make A Fleet Grow You Have To Expose The Racing To As Many New Sailors As Posible. I Think Issa Is Trying To Do So. And I Say Thanks To Them.
    I Just Wish I Was Good Enough To Go.
    But Like Most Sunfish Sailor I'm Over 40,job.kids,wife, Lucky To Sail 10-15 Times A Year. For The Ones That Can Go To World And Other Major Events
    And Live A Dream I Say Kool
     
  9. Old Geezer

    Old Geezer Member

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    Well, I guess it's a case of whether you see the glass as half full or 95% empty.

    A full list of ISAF member nations is at http://www.sailing.org/mna/mna.asp.
    IMHO a "real" World Championship would have a reasonable representation geographically and numerically from this list of almost 120 countries. Half a dozen countries, all in the Americas, is not the "world".
     
  10. Wavedancer

    Wavedancer Upside down? Staff Member

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    Back to the topic. The current leader, Lucas Gonzalez Smith from Argentina is a world class Laser sailor. Won the South American Laser championship in 2002. No, Robert Scheidt wasn't there for that regatta, but still.....
    As of late yesterday, Lucas is five points ahead of Marx Chirinos.
     
  11. adavid

    adavid Member

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    Actually, J24s have had a World Championship EVERY year since 1979. Here are the results.


    World Champions

    Year Location Helmsperson Yacht Country
    2004 USA
    2003 Medemblik, Holland Lorenzo Bressani Kaster Italy
    2002 Kingston, Canada Brad Read Blind Squirrel United States
    2001 Osaka, Japan Kazuyuki Hyodo Sled Japan
    2000 Newport, USA Brad Read Blind Squirrel United States
    1999 Genoa, Italy Vasco Vascotto Italy
    1998 San Francisco, USA Terry Hutchinson Evita United States
    1997 Buenos Aries. Argentina Vince Brun Writing Instruments United States
    1996 Sardinia, Italy Chris Larson Writing Instruments United States
    1995 Rochester, USA Bill Fortenberry Average White Boat United States
    1994 Melbourne, Australia Ken Read Jazzed United States
    1993 Abersock, Wales Ken Read Head Case United States
    1992 Annapolis, USA Ken Read Mookie United States
    1991 Athens, Greece Ken Read Maxx United States
    1990 Dublin, Ireland Jim Brady Just More Fun United States
    1989 Kingston, Canada Larry Klein Fly Mo J United States
    1988 Sydney, Australia John Kostecki Pee Wee United States
    1987 Capri, Italy Francesco de Angelis Le Coq Hardi Italy
    1986 Newport, USA Ken Read 96 Degrees United States
    1985 Atsumi Bay, Japan Ken Read Maggie-San United States
    1984 Poole, England David Curtis HJ United States
    1983 Maalmo, Sweden Ed Baird Laissez Faire United States
    1982 San Francisco, USA John Kolius Cheap Sunglasses United States
    1981 Sydney, Australia Mark Bethwaite Bandit Australia
    1980 San Remo, Italy John Kolius San Brandano United States
    1979 Newport, USA Charlie Scott Smiles United States
     
  12. Old Geezer

    Old Geezer Member

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    The J24 list of champions illiustrates perfectly the point I am trying to make about what to expect from a "real" world championship for a "real" international class. It looks like they rotate the Worlds between the Americas, Europe and Asia/Australasia fairly regularly. So they have a Worlds in the Americas every 3 years or so. And you can see that some Americans have taken the time and expense to compete in and win some of the Worlds on other continents. (Do the J24 guys have to transport their boats overseas too?)

    So let's quit the whining about how difficult it is for Americans to travel to an island in our hemisphere for a regatta. And let's stop the pretense that US Sunfish sailors have to actually qualify to sail at the Worlds when every year the class sends up begging more sailors to go.

    The more fundamental question is whether the Sunfish continues to be a viable international class with the right to run world championships at all.
     
  13. beldar boathead

    beldar boathead Well-Known Member

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    Geezer,usually I agree with you, but you are clueless on this. Sunfish is as international or more so than a lot of other classes. Check out competition in the "international" j22 Worlds, the Europe now that it is no longer an olympic class, etc.

    So, the bulk of the fleet is in the US and Central and South America. So set the schedule so you don't need to be on the freekin' island for 9 days and spend a fortune getting there. That is a reasonable commitment for a mega international class like Stars or Lasers, it is not for Sunfish. Obviously Sunfish are suffering now that Radials are the defacto junior trainer in the US, but the class should realize this and plan the Worlds accordingly.

    BB (and I rule!!)
     
  14. Wavedancer

    Wavedancer Upside down? Staff Member

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    The last day (Friday) must have been exciting; very close racing with Lucas ending up as the new World champ, one point ahead of Marx Chirinos (Venezuela).

    Interestingly, according to the 2004/5 Sunfish Directory, there is no Sunfish National Class Assocation in Argentina. I hope that Lucas Gonzalez Smith will be the spark to increase the popularity of our boat in that country. That would be good for the PanAm games as well.
     
  15. Old Geezer

    Old Geezer Member

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    Hey - surely we can respectfully disagree with each other without sinking to the level of personal insults such as "clueless"? I thought Sunfish sailors always played nice.

    I am sure you are correct that some other so-called international classes have poor worldwide geographic representation. So what?

    My point was that that you should expect to invest a bit of money and time if you want to compete in a world championship. I don't really understand your point about how it's OK for a Laser sailor to take 9 days off work and fly to a Caribbean island but not for a Sunfish sailor. Are Laser sailors richer than Sunfish sailors? If so, why?
     
  16. mike4947

    mike4947 Member

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    It's because the Laser is an Olympic class. Folks wanting to do the big time thing will pay whatever it takes. Also note the Laser class association has apx 10 times the members of the fish class assoc. A lot better chance of finding folks willing to pay through the nose for a trip to a World's.
    Over the yeaars there have been several World's outside the US. IIRC Peru and Italy come to mind as well as acouple in the West Indies.
     
  17. Old Geezer

    Old Geezer Member

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    Sorry Mike - I just don't buy that. The Laser became an Olympic class in 1996 if I recall correctly. But the Laser class has been running World Championships in multiple continents with big turnouts since the early 70's.

    For example.....
    1974 Bermuda 108 entries
    1979 Australia 93 entries
    1982 Sardinia 231 entries
    and so on. And you can be sure that there were plenty of North American sailors at Laser Worlds in Europe and Australia decades before the Laser became an Olympic class. They even won some of them!

    So the question remains. Why were Laser sailors, to take one example, prepared to make a bigger commitment to compete in a Worlds than Sunfish sailors are?
     
  18. mike4947

    mike4947 Member

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    Well like I said on the average for every one sunfish racer there are at least 10 laser racers. While the Sunfish is the world's largest production boat in numbers produced you know as well as I do for every one currently being used there are many gathering dust or moldering away behind a garage somewhere.
    Folks still consider a Sunfish as more of a puddle toy than a real sailboat. I've heard the fish called that many times over the years. Folks consider a Laser a "real" sailboat.

    We just don't have the committed number of sailers in the sunfish community. Not to mention the average fish owner won't spend the $500-$600 to upgrade a second generation fish to current racing status, much less shell out at least several thousand dollars for a trip to the worlds.
    Way back when I started sailing on a lake in the Adirondacks we generaly had 30-40 Fish out every weekend during the summer and there would be 8-10 boats traveling to regionals. As the class added a few go faster items the class size got smaller. When the racing sail came in participation dropped to around 7-10 boats with only 2 of us making even one regional a year, when the plastic fantastic came out it dropped to just 2-3 of us diehards who upgraded and left the few rec boats so far behind that they stopped racing.
    The fish just doesn't have the reputation that the laser has had from day one.
     
  19. Old Geezer

    Old Geezer Member

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    Ahah! The best post yet on the real reasons behind the decline of the Sunfish as a racing class and the subsequent problems in getting folk to commit time and money to attend the Sunfish Worlds. Right on Mike.

    Truth is that we are a small band of enthusiasts who love this boat but IMHO are no longer, if we ever were, a truly international class. In the last ISCA World Council Minutes it was reported that there are 17 recognized National Class Associations. But of these 17, only 6 countries USA, USVI, Curacao, Dominican Republic, Ecuador and Martinique had more than 22 members. Most of the countries report having exactly 20 members.

    Hmmm. Anybody smell something fishy here? (Pun intended). You have to register 20 members to qualify as a national class. What a strange coincidence that so many countries have exactly 20 members. Could it be that these countries really have only half a dozen active Sunfish racers who, in order to achieve the threshold of 20 members, sign up their friends, their mother-in-laws, their mailmen, their dead grandmothers....whatever as class members? Just wondering.

    This is also related to the ISAF rules that specify how many countries in how many continents a class needs to have in order to be an international class and qualify to hold a "World" Championship. Yes - apparently ISAF holds a patent or copyright or something on the word "World".

    So let's face reality. Stop pretending to be in the same league as the real international, world classes. Drop the annual World Championship in places that too many sailors can't be bothered to travel to. Drop the sham qualification nonsense that we use in the USA. And replace the Worlds with a cool, fun-filled, totally open regatta that is relatively easy to get to, inexpensive and short enough to attract a huge crowd.

    Call it the Sunfish Inter-Galactics if you like. But that doesn't mean you have to register 20 members on Alpha Centauri and hold the regatta on Mars.
     
  20. Tim Polaski

    Tim Polaski 79429

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    Boy is this is turning into a hot topic.

    I can't believe that the poster of the J-24 worlds results left out the 2004 champions name. That would be JENS HOOKANSEN...ring a bell anyone? DING! :D

    The DN class holds worlds in North America one year and in Europe the next year. There is a fair amount of participation from the US in the European venues.

    As far as sailing on Mars, I could probably go to Mars for the price a ticket to Martinique. It would be cheaper, actually reasonable, to fly to England or Italy too. Sure it takes time and money to sail at a world championship, but why host it someplace so remotely accessible as to realize low turnout. You're asking for it.

    BTW....I just sent my dead grandmother to race in the open 60's trimarans as one of the 20 representatives from USA. It was hell paying for the refrigerated container though!

    Tim

    P.S. You like my avatar? That's from the laser intergalactics on Pluto. Also poor turnout.
     

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