strong wind tacking (end up in irons)

Discussion in 'Laser Talk' started by JuanCH, Nov 30, 2008.

  1. JuanCH

    JuanCH Member

    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    6
    1. hi there guys, today I went sailing (18 knots) I had a few problems during my tacks (I ended up in irons) is it a problem of speed? there were waves (I sail on a river), I had enough bag in the sail to go thru the waves, but when I tacked (5 out of 12 I ended up in irons!!) Can you give me your thoughts??

    2. when you are in irons, ( strong wind) what's the best method to get out and get some speed? rudder in the middle ?? rudder in the center?? the sail????

    Thank you all for your help!!!

    buenos vientos!!!
     
  2. Quagers

    Quagers Member

    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    6
    push the boom out to 1 side so you begin to sail backwards and shove the tiller over, the moment it starts moving release the boom or you'll get whacked. (this method gets abit dicey in really strong winds, in those conditions as you naturally being pushed back by the wind just put the tiller over to 1 side and it should turn out.
     
  3. Merrily

    Merrily Administrator Staff Member

    Likes Received:
    14
    Trophy Points:
    38
    In strong wind you need to tack fast with no hesitation.

    Also to get out of irons, it helps to release the vang.
     
  4. WCsailor

    WCsailor New Member

    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Adding to what others suggested...

    [FONT=Arial, Helvetica]Yes, during the time of coming about, the boat is receiving no motive force from the wind; it must "rely on its inertia" to maintain enough speed so that it can be steered onto the opposite tack.
    [/FONT]
    [FONT=Arial, Helvetica]When the boat does not have sufficient inertia, and stops with its bow pointing into the wind and its sails useless, it is said to be in 'Irons'.

    [/FONT][FONT=Arial, Helvetica]Simply remember the routine of "push, push" - that is push the tiller and the boom away from you and wait. The boat will slowly start sailing backwards and will turn away from the wind. Then you reverse the routine with "pull, pull" on tiller and mainsheet and you're off again.
    [/FONT]
    * Be BOLD. Go into the tack with plenty of speed (you may want to crack off a little as you approach the tack)

    * Push the tiller over more than usual - the boat has to be forced through the wind – and go well beyond close hauled on the other tack.

    * If there are waves aim to be starting the tack as you go up the face of the wave; you will then be tacking at the top of the wave when both ends of the boat are out the water and speeding down the wave when you need to go faster.
     
  5. Nora171010

    Nora171010 New Member

    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    One thing i figured out is to make sure you have enough speed to get through the tack and not shove the tiller over hard all the way, push it over half way and then when head to wind push it over the rest of the way and when finished with the tack HIKE HIKE HIKE GET THE BOAT FLAT asap, center the tiller and u may have to jerk it towards you one more time but get that boat flat
     
  6. sexymommy

    sexymommy New Member

    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    make sure you have speed and give your boat almost a little bit of a roll to get it across and keep speed up after the tack
     
  7. WestCoast

    WestCoast New Member

    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    everyone has pretty well covered it.

    In waves though, it will help to try and find a flat spot to tack in. If you can do that, the bow gets across faster, and doesn't get impeded by oncoming waves.

    It's hard, and you can't always be so choosy, but it is one more piece of the puzzle.
     
  8. WCsailor

    WCsailor New Member

    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Here's a thread that mentions "high winds and into irons" advice of going fast, even if you have to bear off slightly (similar to my previous advice of "go into the tack with plenty of speed (you may want to crack off a little as you approach the tack)").

    http://www.laserforum.org/sailing-breeze-t5101.html

    here's the icing, Laser Sailing 15-20knt

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pgthVx37Ho0
    (turn down volume for us older sailors, ;))

    Let's know how you do!

    Phil

    As 4 me, I think I love my laser as I am hugging the deck in 20+ kts of wind!
     
  9. Mattcm

    Mattcm Member

    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    16
    Also if you are sailing in waves, a way to make the boat turn through the tack is to time it before a wave comes so that after your pass through the wind a wave hits your boat on the windward side, knocking you round.
     
  10. bromanw

    bromanw New Member

    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    merrily said it best... vang off
     
  11. WCsailor

    WCsailor New Member

    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Nah, I think bromanw said it best, that...
    And I like the part that Mattcm said about letting the waves bang you around to help turn (Use a gps unit and see how fair this technique works)
    George (WestCoast store guy) is on to a good idea looking for flat spots when dealing with waves as adding somethe "else" to the puzzle.
    All-in-All... Juan good sailng to you sir!
     
  12. jimmy

    jimmy New Member

    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Hmm, I do things a bit differently.

    I try to time it so I tack at the top of a wave so I accelerate down the back of the wave after the tack. Depending on wind and wave direction you will need to adjust your approach. No two situations are the same.

    When it is windy (over 20 knots). I use lots of rudder through the tack. I leave the vang on hard, but let the mainsheet out a foot or two as i start the tack. As I come through the wind I hit the cockpit hard to be sure I am under the boom. I use a lot of rudder so that I exit the tack about 10 degrees below proper course. The sail is out , so I am not knocked down. As I get situated and hiked out I pull the sail in accelerate and get back on course. I lose a little distance to windward by exiting the tack fat but I keep the boat moving and do not get in irons. I do not attempt a roll tack in heavy air, the opposite really, I try to keep the boat as flat as possible.
     
  13. pez

    pez Member

    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    16
    I've never had this problem... I like to tack fast I guess...

    When I do get in irons (usually intentional so I can take a dip or take a break), I get out of them by pushing the boom out and sailing backwards for a spell...
     
  14. glasky

    glasky Member

    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    16
    Most times you see a Laser get into irons while tacking it is because the sheet is not drawn in sufficiently and prograssively with the turn. The drag just stops the Laser and this can be made worse with an extreemly full sail or too much vang (particularly in a radial). It is worst in waves which ad to the problem (in light air and very flat water you can spin a Laser in a 720 by just finding the sweetspot fore and aft and pushing it into the spin - once there is a breeze you need to trim as you turn)

    Other suggestions also valid - but if you turn upwind without trimming the sheet in you will quickly loose any steerage in most breezes.
     
  15. Memnar

    Memnar Member

    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    6
    I can say this happens when you tack slow..

    I say this because when I sail with my son who is 3, we tack slow as not to get him tangles up in the sheets, get over to the correct side of the boat, etc..etc..

    Sometimes we end up in irons.

    When I sail by myself this does not happen.
     
  16. Rob B

    Rob B Active Member

    Likes Received:
    1
    Trophy Points:
    38
    [ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OwUVyHsTxnI&feature=related"]YouTube - Luis Martinez Doreste Cadiz Extreme Saliling[/ame]

    Watch the one with the "Spain" sail. High winds, good tacking video and jibing. He "stuffs" a couple of the jibes!
     
  17. AlanD

    AlanD Former ISAF Laser Measurer

    Likes Received:
    47
    Trophy Points:
    28
    In stronger winds, carrying the higher vang tension is what creates the problem of getting caught in irons, as increased vang tension makes the boat want to round up into the wind. While in flat water your momentum will get you through the tack, in waves your momentum can be lost. To avoid the situation, timing the waves help, as does going into the tack with speed and through the tack with speed. However, I've recently been coaching some people to consider easing the vang slightly before the tack and pulling it on again after the tack.

    If you're unfortunate enough to get stuck in irons, holding the boom out and steering the oposite direction is the way, but raising the centreboard and / or easing the vang helps significantly.
     
  18. clouser_minnow

    clouser_minnow New Member

    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    i've got this problem sometimes but what i try to do is that when i tack, i time it such that the bow of the boat will get thumped by a wave to the new tack e.g. tacking from starboard to port tack, wave hits bow on port side pushing the boat in the direction i want it to turn.
     

Share This Page