Starting at the BEGINNING

Discussion in 'Sunfish Talk' started by Whitecap, Jun 7, 2016.

  1. Whitecap

    Whitecap Member

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    Ive got a question for you guys...... Im hoping the daggerbaord trunk is taken care of (we shall see later today when I do the leak test). Jow that one of my three main projects is taken care of, maybe I can knock out the deck/hull joint. Here is what Im dealing with - durning rhe leak test I noticed air coming frommthe Starbord Bow trim section. Only now, with the boat on its deck, can I see the fracture there. The length of this crack is about 4.5 inches.
    Here are the pics -

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    1) In your guy's experienced opinion, is there any chance this can be repaired with epoxy placed on top of this crack, seeping in to plug the gap?
    2) could this deck/hull joint be sound with only this crack leaking?
    3) will I need to remove this trim section? And if yes, sunfish direct is selling two different kinds of trim, one that is coated (in 8 foot sections) and one that is uncoated (in five foot sections). Which ones should I use?
    4) I need advice on the most effective way to make this repair complete.

    If Im waiting for the rudder conversion parts to get here, I might as well try to be productive here.

    Thoughts?

    - Whitecap
     
  2. mixmkr

    mixmkr Active Member

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    You'll find out also, the repair is the "easy" part. Matching the color is 95% of the job. I get some good cash flow doing this kind of stuff. You can order OEM colors that are CLOSE starts, but our 60's era Sunfish colors are long ago changed from original. My '69 fish almost has a " dirty speckle" in it now, that it got from over the years.....that I actually like. But it shines up nice and it would be extremely hard to replicate. Therefore I'm hesitant to cut into the deck and did all my repairs with bottom side access.
     

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  3. mixmkr

    mixmkr Active Member

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    Your new crack to be repaired the "Cadillac" way would be to remove the trim, grind out any damage and repair, as you've done the others. Expecting resin to "seep" into the crack is doubtful. Covering with a filler could work as an "engineered" process, but is kinda a bandaid repair, so to speak. Remember right side up though...you won't see this repair. A neat application of West would be the quick, easy fix, as there's kind of a channel to smooth in some filler, without removing the trim. Use a tiny Dremel to grind out... (see my previous post with pics)
     
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  4. Whitecap

    Whitecap Member

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    Mixmkr,
    You do some good work! Those pics above are fantastic. I could use those skills in a week or so!

    I've got some more questions for all of you. I was inspecting the splashguard and saw a crack in it. I've got the material to fix it now, sooooooo I unscrewed my 1968 splashguard (the old style, with the removable screws) and noticed an old line of marine caulk of some kind, that somone had put there. Is this a factory thing? Is it needed for anything? Since the splashguard is just screwed into the boat, the caulk does not appear to be needed for any support. But what do I know? What do you guys think? Here is what it looks like:
    [​IMG]
    Above you can see the crack after I sanded it down.
    [​IMG]
    Some glass to fix the back of it, giving the front some strength.
    Now take a look below what 48 years of dirt and water leaves behind.
    [​IMG]
    I used a scraper to get all the caulk off the boat then used soap and water to clean up the mess. It came out looking very clean. So clean that Im surprised this boat was ever that white!

    1) When I reattach the spashguard, do I need to put any sealant down there? 3M 4000UV, or marine silicone, or what?
    2) on that deck/hull joint leak pictured above, if I use eposy and filler to effect the quick fix, filling that crack up after dremelling out the lose debris, could the epoxy and filler somehow hold that trim in place? Would this make it impossible to remove the trim at a later time if the quick fix fails?

    Thanks for all the help guys.
    Warm regards,
    Whitecap


    PS - The leak test passed. All the repairs are air tight (even the daggerboard trunk). The only thing leaking on the boat (that I can find) is that deck/hull joint. Help me fix it guys!
     
  5. Light and Variable Winds

    Light and Variable Winds Well-Known Member

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    Regarding your previous repair:

    [​IMG]

    • That repair's strength relies on about 1/8" of hull-thick epoxy on its edges (not real strong) and a 1" tape that gets thinned by sanding. :oops:

    Stronger still, would be a 2" tape epoxied to the back edges, leaving a 1-inch "halo" all around. To conform the "halo" to the hull, tape polyethylene film, saran wrap, or a grocery bag—with the printed side out—to support the "halo" directly adjacent to the hole that was cut. Coat with resin, insert, and proceed as you did. Details here:
    "Arthrosopic Surgery" on Sunfish | SailingForums.com

    • Where I sail, large and cold :eek: waves (wakes) frequently wash over the bow. :(

    While I intend to fix it eventually, one side of my splashboard doesn't meet the deck, and flexes upwards with the waves. :confused: When a wave washes over the bow, I just push down on the splashboard edge, and very little gets through. :cool:

    Caulking, though it would add some strength, just adds something else to clean up later. Silicone caulk adds to difficulties with repairs and painting. Since the splashboard mostly sits in the sun, I think I'd try a water-soluble caulk with no silicone. Regardless, any roughness to the finish is hidden by the splashboard! ;)

    • Why is the drain plug circled? :confused:

    • That's good news on the sealed daggerboard trunk...What a relief! :)
     
    Last edited: Aug 22, 2016
  6. Whitecap

    Whitecap Member

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    L&VWs,
    I'm not understanding your point for certain. I cut out the damaged area, fixed it from the inside, then made a "1-halo" using resin to hold the halo in place, then epoxied the repair back in place, then used two layers of glass over the cut area for strength.
    [​IMG]
    So, I think you are saying to use fiberglass instead of stir sticks as my "halo". Instead of my halo running the length of the opening, as pictured above, have the halo protrude perpendicular to the length of the opening, in multiple spots around the opening? Then make the "halo" supported, inside the boat, by using layers of glass from behind along the opening, which will make the halo stronger. Last, I'm also not sure I understand about the saran wrap or plastic bag. Can you explain further? Thanks for taking the time to post - I want to get better at this, and any feedback will help. This is my first experience using fiberglass (and most of these tools.....lol). Awesome fun stuff!



    I did use the above video as my guide, but must have deviated from it somehow, just trying to figure out how.

    Let me know if Im understanding you correctly, so I can do a better job next time. This is why I am learning all this stuff on a free, junker, boat! Im sure I will make tons of learning errors, but Im having a great time doing it.

    Thanks again for taking time to teach me. Any thoughts on that deck/hull joint? Can it be fixed with filler without cementing the trim in place?

    Warm regards,
    Whitecap
     
  7. Whitecap

    Whitecap Member

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    PS- the drain plug was circled because it was leaking. A few pages back I documented its repair. I lifted it up a bit, covered it in 3M 4000UV, then reseated it in place. It's air tight now and passing the leak test!
     
  8. mixmkr

    mixmkr Active Member

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    I think the idea L&VW is suggesting is the 'ground out" area around the repair may be too thick, NOT allowing for enough build up of new glass to fully support the "patch". Typically you would grind down the edges to almost a point...like a WIDE knife blade. That would allow of several layers of fiberglass cloth to cover the repaired seam, even if the exisiting fiberglass is very thin. Two layers of cloth ought to be sufficient for this hull, while resin (even with filler) basically has no strength on its' own. It's the cloth that has the strength and the resin is the "glue".

    And lastly...adding extra layers on the inside, only make it stronger, without worries of the repair (on the inside), not maintaining a smooth surface like the outside, but rather being thicker and "humping up" where the new glass is applied. Hence... fiberglassing on BOTH sides is most desireable...but not always easily doable in all cases, without excessive "surgery" ;-D
     
  9. Light and Variable Winds

    Light and Variable Winds Well-Known Member

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    That's not a repair I'm familiar with :oops: and don't know how to proceed. However, others here have suggested separating the seam, and injecting epoxy into the contact edges, then clamping. Buy more clamps, then check with a search. ;) My practice Sunfish is a rescued/retired, saltwater racer, into which, there is no end of water seeping in! :confused:

    Mixmkr has it right. Taper all edges to a very thin surface—first. While there's nothing really "wrong" with the batten approach, the repair can be made stronger. Does the stronger (both sides) repair result in a heavier repair? Yes, but it's one you won't ever have to return to. :)

    I described this stronger repair analogy as being like an Oreo cookie, with the filling being the Sunfish hull.

    Now that I think about it, a round repaired section can't be installed :confused: just as a round manhole-cover can't fall through. :(

    So, now, think of this stronger repair as an ice cream sandwich, with the filling representing the Sunfish hull. It works best with oval or rectangular sections which, when cured, can be re-inserted through the hole you'd made. (Including this particular "corner" repair).

    Since the inside fiberglass cloth needs to be evenly-flat all the way around, tape plastic film next to the hole. Place the "wet" back-side repair on it, and finish dabbing resin on it there—while it's flat (yet approximates any slight curves of the hull). :cool:

    The plastic film acts like a "release agent", so the entire piece can be removed when "set", sanded, re-daubed with resin, inserted into the hole, and pulled into place. (And leaves the hull clean). Use a bungee cord and heat gun to speed up that "set". To re-use the brush, store the same "wet" (and temperature-sensitive) brush in a cooler to use later. :cool: Use the money saved on the brushes to buy more resin! ;)
     
  10. Whitecap

    Whitecap Member

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    L&VWs,
    Ok....now I understand. From my research on this forum and around the internet, there are two mainstream ways to fix a larger hole in your boat. The first way is to grind out the damage, bevel down the edges (increasing surface area for the new material to adhere to), make a backing plate, insert it through the hole, epoxy it in place, then build up the damaged area with new glass. Two examples are below.

    And


    The other way (the way I did it) is to cut out the damaged area completely. Repair the damaged area with glass (not grinding the damage away), place the newly repaired area on battons which are epoxied into the hull, epoxy in place, fiberglass, then fare. Example below:


    Ok, now I understand you guys. What you are telling me is that the first method is stronger and perferable to the second method.

    Got it.

    I was hesitant to do the first method because the damaged area was on a corner, and I was worried about building up the repaired area correctly. I thought I would screw it up so the repaired area was noticable.

    Ill use the other method, the one you are advocating, next time.

    Thanks for the insight, gents! Great information here.

    Thank you all,
    Whaitecap
     
  11. Rudder

    Rudder New Member

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    Since your boat is dry and has passed the leak test.

    Spray some primer on the exposed resin and fiberglass for UV protection and go sailing.

    Finish your repairs after the season is over.
     
  12. Whitecap

    Whitecap Member

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    Gents,
    Finished the rudder conversion last night. Also finally mounted the inspection ports. Completed the "band-aid" fix on the deck hull joint. Lets hope it works. Ill do the last leak test when I get back home from this work trip.

    [​IMG]

    Only thing left to do (besides priming and painting - which Ill do this winter) is to get a cap for the lower boom, and to get ropes. Can any of you guys tell me what lines I should be using for non-competitive sailing. Ill be sailing in light to mid winds. Can any of you lend me your experience. What should I be buying, as far as required lines to be used.

    Almost there,
    Whitecap.
     
  13. Sylvan Sunfish

    Sylvan Sunfish New Member

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  14. Light and Variable Winds

    Light and Variable Winds Well-Known Member

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    While it's not impossible to add length to a mainsheet and halyard, my neighbor's Sunfish had a mainsheet that only allowed the boom to extend to 90º to the hull. There were times I'd like to have had three more feet of mainsheet. :confused:

    Three more feet of "fatter" halyard will permit raising the sail to a custom cam cleat (arrow):
     

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  15. Whitecap

    Whitecap Member

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    So, L&VWs....... Is the above package good? Is the mainsheet and halyard line long enough in the "recreational line package"?

    Is this the kit I should get to rig up my sunfish?
    [​IMG]
    The above deal is 43 bucks. Will these lines be long enough L&VWs? (I assume they are not because of your post?)
    Anyone else out there with recommendations for me?

    Thanks for the recommendation Sylvan!

    -Whitecap
     
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  16. beldar boathead

    beldar boathead Well-Known Member

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    Those lengths are great. That main sheet may even be a couple feet too long but you can always shorten it. Back in the day they came from the factory with a 24 foot sheet and that as also the max legal length for racing. Now any length is ok for racing.
     
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  17. Whitecap

    Whitecap Member

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    Beldar & Sylvan,
    Thanks guys, will buy this package and a cap for the upper boom. I should be on the water for the first time, n the next two weeks. Cant wait!

    Thank you,
    Whitecap
     
  18. Sylvan Sunfish

    Sylvan Sunfish New Member

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    For the money these are some quality lines. Keep up the good work, you'll be on the water soon!

    Jon
     
  19. beldar boathead

    beldar boathead Well-Known Member

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    BTW, you will not need 5 feet of line for each outhaul. You will probably need about 1 foot or 18 inches each, but that will leave you with a little bit of extra line, and you can use a piece to tie the last grommet to the boom instead of a clip (on the upper and lower boom), and perhaps use some extra to replace the clip right below where the halyard attaches. The plastic clip gets jammed in there sometimes and by using line the sail will still nicely rotate around the boom.
     
  20. Light and Variable Winds

    Light and Variable Winds Well-Known Member

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    Ya gotta start with something! ;)

    My borrowed Sunfish came with a 1/8" halyard, that I found to be a literal pain. :(

    "Time will tell" when you need a change, or need no change at all. :)
     

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