Small outboard motors on Capri 14.2

Discussion in 'Capri/Catalina 14 Talk' started by 4thbnnjvolCurassier, Nov 14, 2015.

  1. 4thbnnjvolCurassier

    4thbnnjvolCurassier New Member

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    I'm sure all the forum community have tossed this around before, however, I'm new to this. I would like to ask for the most recent opinions and advice on getting a small motor to have with my boat for times when the wind just leave you floating still. I have read somewhere that the torque from an electric motor can put tremendous strain on the transom and even damage it. Is that true? I have also read through all the various methods for securing a large battery for the motor as well. Personally, I don't care for the idea of attaching a large cage type battery carrier on the back of the boat so I would be very open to opinions about other suggestions as well. I am also very attracted towards the 4 cycle 2 hp motor offered by Island Hopper Outboards as it is very light weight and has its own gas tank built in it. I would hope that some of you can give me some feedback on that model. Again, is it healthy for the boat to attach that type of motor to the transom of a Capri 14.2? Also, is a 2 hp engine strong enough to move that size boat? (not looking for speed - propulsion to get back to the wind or reach the other side of a lake to get home) I would appreciate any and all input you would have to offer. Thank you.

    Tom
     
  2. Russ and Jennifer

    Russ and Jennifer Member

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    2 hp would be more than adequate for the 14.2 . heck, you could probably ski behind that ;) I'm not familiar with the particular motor you mention, but weight is a always a concideration on a boat this light. it's so easy to move through the water that even the smallest motor will propel it very well. I'm not a fan of any gas powered units for the Capri however, due to the vibration imparted on the light weight, and generally hollow, transom, the hassle and pollution factor of the fuel, the weight, etc. If you plan to do a LOT of motoring, then the gas may be best for you, but in most cases you'll just use it a couple minutes each day to get on and off the dock, wile the rest of the day you're just dragging it along with you for the ride, so smaller and lighter is almost always better. For my money, we picked up a lightly used MinnKota 30 for $50.00 and an Odyssey pc680 battery. the Odyssey is fully sealed and could be mounted upside down without leaking or negatively affecting it in any way. I did have one occasion to need it to get us back to the dock from far across the lake last summer, and it made the 2-2.5 mile voyage to within a few hundred feet of the dock before it began seriously slowing down due to low charge. those batteries are made to be drawn down over and over again, so it's no worse for wear after a quick recharge.

    .02
    Russ
     
  3. 4thbnnjvolCurassier

    4thbnnjvolCurassier New Member

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    Thank you for your reply. Yours is the kind of feed-back that I need. I did find a lot of chatter on this subject in the 2005 forum pages. Several people mentioned the MinnKota 30 as what they felt was their choice over all other motors. Again, my concern with the electric motor is the quick starting torque while mounted on my Mod 1 Capri with the hollow transom. I know that weight is a concern and that the electric motor is not heavy. However, is not the weight of the battery rather heavy? Where do you have your battery set up, or do you take it out of the cuddy when you need it?
    The gas motor I was looking at weighs 20 lbs, gas and all. 4 Cycle 2.0HP - Small Outboard Engines
    It is 2.0 hp but the web site makes it look like it reads 20. My real worry is that when I would need it, as always with small gas engines, i.e. lawn mowers, weed trimmers, etc., it might not start for me.

    Tom
     
  4. Russ and Jennifer

    Russ and Jennifer Member

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    Huummmm. Let me preface by pointing out that I owned an outdoor power equipment business for 31 years. I sold the business 3 years ago and retired, so I do have some knowledge of small gas engines. I looked at the engine you posted the link to. wow. that is nothing more than a cheep weed eater with a propeller on the gearhead and a transom mount on the shaft. I also looked at the replacement parts they showed on this same site. amazing! besides the gearhead, so many of the brackets, carb, starter, muffler, etc, etc, is right off the weedeater shelf. now that's not ALL bad, as Mitsubishi isn't the worst engine builder out there, but these units are not designed to be used in anything resembling an outboard motor environment. the most blatant example is the gearhead, which isn't even remotely sealed well enough for underwater use. the first piece of fishing line that wraps around the shaft will cut the seal and allow water to destroy the gears in no time.
    As to the Capri transom. I think a few were built with an engine mount, but most were not. the ones that didn't come with the mount are indeed hollow in that area. it's easy enough to place a mount on it, but you'll want to also insert a spacer of some fashion inside the inner and outer skins. several here have shared how to easily do that, and my "resurrection" thread shows mine also I believe. I would not be the least concerned about damaging the transom with either a small gas, or an electric motor, if a reasonably sound mounting pad is installed first. these boats were built pretty tough.
    BTW I think there are a couple photos of the battery I used on my resurrection thread also. the particular battery I used (Odyssey pc680) fits perfectly between the bolts that hold the tiller grudgions on, so I tacked my battery mount on with the same bolts. this battery is rather small and light, which is why I used it, but has plenty of reserve for my uses 99% of the time, and it ALWAYS starts on the first pull ;) .

    Russ.
     
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  5. 4thbnnjvolCurassier

    4thbnnjvolCurassier New Member

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    Your review of the Island Hopper engine reenforces my initial feelings about it, especially after the dealer responded to some of my questions about it with absolute assuredness that it would perform flawlessly for my boat under any conditions. I know a good sales pitch when I hear one, or read one as this case is. When the price for something doesn't match the claims given about it, I know there is room for doubt and caution. I very much appreciate your detailed report on that engine, especially coming from one with your background and understanding of its mechanics. Thank you.
    My wife didn't like trusting me with a small gas engine either, and I knew she would not like the noise that would come with it.
    Looking at your pictures it appears that you have "sandwiched" two wooden pieces forward and aft on the transom at the point of clamping the motor to the boat. I did the same on a small Sabot I have when I installed oarlocks on the port and starboard sides (the oarlocks were attached to the inner wooden 3/4 stock pieces of oak) Is that what you meant about, "...insert a spacer of some fashion
    inside the inner and outer skins."
    Also, as per your reply, I have looked at the Odyssey battery and I like the idea of a smaller 12 v battery for this use. Actually, I did not even think about looking for one of those. "I drive them man; I don't know what makes them go." I'm pretty sure that the electric motor and the smaller battery will be the way I should go on this. I will only want the motor for leaving and returning to a dock or launch area, or for movement when we might lose the wind. I'm thinking I will keep the motor inside the cuddy when not in use. It is at least four months until I will be venturing out with the boat so I still have plenty of time to ponder ideas, read, ask, and learn as much as I can during this season of "ground school".
    This is what I now have safely tucked in at home waiting for spring. The owner lowered the price to $2,000.
    1985 Catalina Capri 14.2 sailboat for sale in Virginia
     
  6. nick-r

    nick-r New Member

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    I have been hauling a HUGE battery around. I found the picture you are talking about and if you could tell me where I could find a bracket like that I would really like to know about it. It fits so perfectly it looks like it could have been an original option.

    4thbnnjvolCurassier
    I've been using this motor and it's worked fine for the local lakes and the Rhode river just south of Annapolis.
    http://www.amazon.com/dp/B00VYP3R82/
    I went with the saltwater version because I hope to get out onto the Chesapeake and while it's not salt-water it is "brackish".
     
  7. 4thbnnjvolCurassier

    4thbnnjvolCurassier New Member

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    Since I have never actually seen one of the electric motors we have been discussing, I have another question. When it says a motor has a 30" shaft where on the motor is it measured from? Is it from where the shaft meets the motor housing down to the bottom of the gear box for the prop, or is it from the height of where the clamp housing rests upon a transom or engine mount down to the gear box for the prop. I measured my boat today from the top of the transom (where I would have the clamp group resting) down to below the hull and that measured about 18 - 19 " depending upon where on the hull curve it would be aligned with.
     
  8. nick-r

    nick-r New Member

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    It's from where the shaft meets the housing, or close to it. The clamp housing part could be moved and locked in anywhere along the shaft.
     
  9. 4thbnnjvolCurassier

    4thbnnjvolCurassier New Member

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  10. Russ and Jennifer

    Russ and Jennifer Member

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    I fabricated the battery bracket myself, out of 20 gauge sheet metal.
    I'm sure the 36lb motor would be great for the 14.2, but I've found the 30 is more than enough power for me. the 30 has 5 forward speeds and I generally use #4. if you look at the amp draw in each speed, it really goes up when you put it in 5th. the one time I used the motor to get back to the ramp from across the lake the battery lasted almost an hour of steady use.

    Russ
     
  11. Pirate & Scooter

    Pirate & Scooter New Member

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    You've gotten plenty of advice about the MinnKota 30 and I figured I'd throw up some pictures of ours since I didn't see any yet. It's completely easy to pop on and off, settles up in the cuddy on a pile of bumpers and extra life jackets to keep it from banging around when we're full up sailing and it's completely gold for getting around harbors, out of channels, cruising lighted boat parades, or straight upwind to the boat ramp when you need it.

    We use reasonably small 35AH batteries that get us 2-3 hours on speeds 1-3 and 1.5-2 hours on speeds 4-5. It's no speed racer but it's valuable quite easy propulsion when you need it.

    We used to simply drag the little 35AH battery out and hook it up but we eventually picked up a MinnKota Power Center because it incorporates the reset-able breakers and two accessory plugs for lights, power inverter, USB plugs to charge phones etc etc, and most importantly it has indicator lights for charge status on the battery. It's been fantastic! The Power Center is even big enough for a larger 115AH battery but that would be heavier and we've never needed the extra power so we just use the extra space in the box for the charger, adapter plugs, etc. The Power Center is right down by Tammy's feet in the picture and it tucks into the front cuddy with the motor as well if you want it out of the way.

    It's great stuff that opens up all sorts of new exploring opportunities, don't wait!

    Azalea 21 Nov 15 001.JPG Azalea 21 Nov 15 093.JPG Azalea 21 Nov 15 103.JPG Azalea 21 Nov 15 111.JPG
     
  12. 4thbnnjvolCurassier

    4thbnnjvolCurassier New Member

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    Thank you for your input Pirate (I'm assuming that Tammy is Scooter). Your pictures look great. I noticed that you joined this forum on the Marine Corps Birthday Oooh Rahhh
    Your pictures look great. You are obviously more experienced with sailing than I am, being completely new and waiting for Spring for a "first sail".
    I ordered the MinnKota Endura 30 yesterday after reading all the opinions I could from this forum and Sailing Anarchy forums (thank you all for your input and help). The motor should be here in a couple of days. Not knowing diddly about batteries and electronics (as I have written above, "Man I drive them; I don't know what makes them go.") I had looked at the power station but thought it was only for the large batteries. You now have me reviewing that item again as my wife liked the idea of a phone charger capability that it has. I also have no idea what posts or cables are needed for the motor so I elected to wait until I had it here, looked at it, and read the instructions before purchasing a battery. I liked what Russ suggested as per using the smaller Odyssey battery, but since I will probably get one of those power stations now it won't hurt to look again at a more medium sized battery. I have found, however, that there are 35 AH batteries and there are AH batteries. I don't know one from another - suggestions?
     
  13. 4thbnnjvolCurassier

    4thbnnjvolCurassier New Member

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    Ah, hit wrong button. I was going to add that I note you are in Hampton VA. I wanted to mention that my wife and I are avid visitors to Williamsburg, Yorktown, and Jamestown. We have done many living history events at all three over the years. Also, I purchased my boat in October from a man and his wife in Mathews VA, a few miles from Gloucester across the York from you.
    I have not placed any pictures on the forum as I don't know how to do that other than the one on my profile. I do have pictures and instructions written up telling and showing how to attach a Baby Bob Flotation directly to the Capri in line with the mast without extra metal brackets that place the float off to one side. ( I have fashioned a very simple attachment jig from oak) I could send you that if you give me an e-mail address if you are interested. My computer skills are extremely limited.

    Tom
     
  14. 4thbnnjvolCurassier

    4thbnnjvolCurassier New Member

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    Just also noticed that we have the same color scheme main sails. My old girl is number 575.
     
  15. Pirate & Scooter

    Pirate & Scooter New Member

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    Those are great sail colors indeed, and ping me if you're coming down and want to sail the Capris or jump on any of the other boats we float about on in the Chesapeake and Atlantic.

    As for the Power Center, I'm attaching pictures because they say 1000 words and should sort out all your questions. The wiring is a breeze, you'll see the battery leads are bolted nicely onto the Power Centers lid and there are wing nut connections on the outside to the motor. When we want to power around we pull the motor and Power Center out of the cuddy, attach the motor to the transom and connect the leads with the wing nuts in seconds. Super simple.

    The other pictures show all the other monkeybusiness we keep in the box since the battery is a Type 24 and only takes up half the space. I have the Minn Kota charger that you'll need and the cigarette lighter USB adapters (dual socket 2A) to put into each accessory plug to charge phones or that Bose Bluetooth speaker we play tunes on, or the AA battery charger, or that little 10W USB LED light you see hanging, or etc etc... anything that's cigarette adapter or USB you can charge or operate. We even plug an inverter in now and then if there's something you need 120V for.

    Type 24 are the small batteries at 35AH while the Type 27s are larger and heavier, usually around 110AH. The motor can draw 30 amps at full power so theoretically a 35AH battery would run it for a little over an hour. Since we usually run at half power we get 2-3 and occasionally 4 hours. Having that battery test meter on there really helps you know if you're pushing your luck running hard which is the main reason I bought the Power Center. There were plenty of times I'd been running an hour between medium and full power without having a meter to verify what was left and I was concerned I'd run out pushing against the tide or wind.

    I've been perfectly happy with the small 35AH and it sounds like there's folks getting by on even less so you'd be fine with a Type 24 and having the extra space to store the charger and accessory toys.

    Good luck!

    Chris & Tammy

    Power Center 001.JPG Power Center 004.JPG Power Center 006.JPG Power Center 007.JPG Power Center 008.JPG Power Center 009.JPG Power Center 011.JPG Power Center 012.JPG Power Center 015.JPG Power Center 017.JPG Power Center 018.JPG xBig Boat 7 Nov 15 237.JPG xBig Boat 7 Nov 15 244.JPG xBig Boat 7 Nov 15 357.JPG
     
    Last edited: Nov 23, 2015
  16. 4thbnnjvolCurassier

    4thbnnjvolCurassier New Member

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    I have ordered the power center and the same battery. I always have a full charge in my phone when going out anywhere and also have a phone charger to use in my Ram. However, it's nice to know that I could use the power center for that too. I have had all the bells and whistles disconnected on my phone which makes and receives calls, period. I don't believe I would have much use for all of the other gadgets, but again, it will be nice to know the capability is there. As for the battery charger, would I not be able to use my standard 12v charger for use on the boat battery, or is the MinnKota charger specifially necessary for that battery?

    Tom
     
  17. Pirate & Scooter

    Pirate & Scooter New Member

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    Standard 12V charger should be fine. Enjoy your power assisted cruising!
     
  18. Russ and Jennifer

    Russ and Jennifer Member

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    Although I find that with AGM batteries it's best to use a charger designed to charge AGM type batteries. they do last a lot longer, and worth it in the long run IMHO. batteries ain't cheep anymore :eek:

    Russ
     
  19. Bdh333

    Bdh333 New Member

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    I have a Minkota 30, I keep the battery in the cubby and used heavy duty bumper cables which run from cubby to motor mounted on the transom. I used proper connections at the battery, and a plug at the motor. Simple and has been trouble free.
    Barry
     
  20. Movingmen1

    Movingmen1 New Member

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    If you get the chance would you post a picture of your motor mount? Would appreciate seeing it, thank you.
     

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