Scoring full rigs and radials together

Discussion in 'Laser Talk' started by LearningLaser, Sep 11, 2016.

  1. LearningLaser

    LearningLaser New Member

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    When scoring a regatta with full rigs and radials on the same start line, should they be scored together? Of course, the radials are disadvantages, but my sense is that they should be scored together with a notation that a boat is a radial. If there are prizes for radials, it may be that the first place radial is actually in 8th place. Kind of like finding the first place opti white boat in a fleet of optis. Thank you.
     
  2. torrid

    torrid Just sailing

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    Ideally they would be scored separately as the boats do have different Portsmouth numbers. However unless it is a junior regatta, the fulls rigs usually greatly outnumber the radials. You may have 12 full rigs and three radials.

    Those three radials would probably rather race with the full size and be scored in place rather than be put in the Portsmouth fleet. A prize for the first radial may be a good way to handle the situation.
     
  3. LearningLaser

    LearningLaser New Member

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    Thank you for the response. Is a Portsmouth number only for time? In the races I am thinking of time is not kept, and boats are scored according to their finish position. This is primarily a full rig regatta, so I think your sense is correct that the radials would rather be scored in their finish position and a prize given for first place radial. I am also wondering about the awarding of grand prix points (this is a grand prix event). One or more of the radials (who are also juniors) are beating full rigs, and even though there are not 7 radials, it seems wrong to award no points to the radials and points to the full rigs they beat. That imposes a penalty for sailing a radial and is not helpful to increasing the class size or encouraging radial attendance at these events. Any thoughts on that?
     
  4. LaLi

    LaLi Active Member

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    Fundamentally, no. They are two different classes.

    Of course, you can start them together if that makes running the race simpler, and the combined fleet is of manageable size. But even then they are separate, and just occupying the same race course at the same time.

    If you want to score them together - to make one class of boats - then you have multiply the finishing time of every boat with the Standard or Radial yardstick.
     
  5. LearningLaser

    LearningLaser New Member

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    Thank you LaLi. The organizers decided to have only 1 start even though there are actually 2 classes of boats. The radials have a very hard time on the start line with the full rigs. The RC does not take finish times, but scores boats based on their finish positions, so there is nothing to multiply. Do you have any suggestions for scoring in that situation?
     
  6. LaLi

    LaLi Active Member

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    If you're not handicapping them, then you score them separately. I don't see any other fair choice really.

    I guess that the fact that these two classes in question use the same hull throws off our thinking a little. You wouldn't try to score together completely different designs without handicapping, such as Radials and Bytes, even if their performance is similar.
     
  7. torrid

    torrid Just sailing

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    Yes, Portsmouth is adjusted for time. You would have to record the finishing position and elapsed time for each boat.

    For what its worth, I've been racing in shared full size/Radial starts for years. To me it has never been an issue. The Radial is technically a slower boat, but when you factor in varying sailor skill there are always Radials finishing ahead of full size boats.

    I have had no problems at mark roundings like you do with greatly dissimilar boats. I'm thinking dinghies and catamarans or dinghies and keelboats. I still have nightmares from being on the course at the same time as E-Scows.

    Maybe the biggest downside is the leaders of the Radial fleet don't get to sail in clean air. They should look at as motivation to Facebook their friends to come out and race. With enough numbers, they can get their own start.
     
  8. Deimos

    Deimos Member

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  9. LearningLaser

    LearningLaser New Member

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    No, this isn't rig swapping for masters. It's mostly juniors sailing radials and adults in the full rigs.
     
  10. torrid

    torrid Just sailing

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    Rig swapping only really works for the masters. There's keen competition at the front of the fleet, but it's largely social at the back of the pack. Rig swapping allows us geezers to still go out and sail when the wind comes up.
     

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