Discussion in 'Laser News Desk' started by Scuttlebutt, Dec 16, 2009.
Alan, I pwned you.
That's provocative, Shatty.
I was hoping Alan would respond, as I was actually trying to have some sort of discussion, although I don't know what there is to discuss.
Saying marijuana is a PED because it helps you sleep better is a really poor point, and an extremely long stretch. Should they go ahead and ban everything and anything that helps you sleep better? GABA, ZMA, warm milk, etc, etc.
It's not a PED, it's just a banned substance due to it's legal status. No more, no less.
It's a stupid rule!!
Let me expand that comment a bit.
The ingestion of so called performance enhancing drugs has nothing to do with the game of sailing.
Those who waste the limited resources of the sailing community trying to enforce rules about so called performance enhancing drugs should be removed from positions where they have access to those resources.
The solution is quite simple.
Those who represent the sport of sailing with respect to application of rules and regulations should tell those who offer a set of anti doping rules and its related bureaucracy, "The sailing comunity has determined there is currently no such thing as a performance enhancing drug when the definition of enhancing includes a proven relationship between that drug and any form of success in a sailing competition. As use of drugs therefore has nothing to do with the game of sailing, there is no reason to consume the resources of the sailing community or distract those who would otherwise be policing drug use in sports where athletes are abusing themselves with harmful drugs in order to enhance performance. Until such time as a correlation can be clearly proven between any individual drug and a positive effect on competitive sailing performance there will be no requirements that any sailor be tested for any form of drug use. Further, the sailing community will only test for those drugs whose positive impact has been proven for the aprticular form of sailing in which the individual is competing. and never for any other drug."
I had a whole post typed out...then lost it.
-Gouv: What you have suggested would essentially open a can of worms and be anything but simple. You've suggested a gray area. A rather large gray area, at that. How do you determine what you have suggested? Get a person to do a line of coke, then get the IOC to go out and watch him sail to see how he reacts? Of course not. Stuff is banned for it's perceived/known effects on any given person. Maybe some people react differently, but in the case of cocaine, well, it's a stimulant and illegal, so it's banned. Caffeine and nicotine, however (and I couldn't believe this) are not banned.
-As far as I know, the sailing community is never responsible for the testing. I could definitely be wrong on that, but I thought it was up to the national sport/anti doping authority or the IOC.
-Basically, I think they have to ban everything like they have, or else it would be very hard to draw a line. As I was looking through the banned substance document, I noticed there were a lot of things not on there that could definitely benefit you, at least in the energy/stimulant category.
Sorry. I read your thoughts with an open kind. I understand you are concerned about stimulants being used. I also do not understand how a stimulant could help a person race a sailboat.
I have seen no studies demonstrating the positive impact of any drug on sailing performance.
I think it is simply awful that so many people abuse drugs and harm their bodies and minds by doing so,
as "successful" drug use has no impact of competitive sailing, I see no reason to single out drug use as a forbidden behavior among competitive sailors.
I'll try to get through this, but I worked from 11PM-7AM, so bear with me.
Essentially, I guess there are two reasons to ban drugs (Not saying I completely agree with either): Legality and performance enhancement.
As I've never cocaine, I can't comment on it's effects, but seeing as it's a stimulant, I can see how it could help with almost anything. Focus, endurance, etc. That's assuming, however, it doesn't mess you up to the point of hindering performance. Again, no experience there.
If I'm correct, you are saying that different sports should have different banned substance lists? I somewhat agree, but I think there are so many variables, that it is much easier to have one set of banned substances used across the board.
The testing authorities don't act as law enforcement agencies, I was just saying that certain drugs are banned in part due to their illegal status. As far as I know, testing positive for an illegal drug at a sporting event carries no legal ramifications. (Again, could be wrong here)
Have you ever taken a stimulant? It helps you with everything. It would certainly help you race a sail boat.
Just because you haven't seen studies demonstrating the positive impact of a drug on sailing performance, doesn't mean there aren't those that have one. With Laser racing in mind, there are plenty of drugs that would have an extremely positive impact on performance and not just directly, but indirectly, also. You get injured, take a little HgH to get you back to 100% a little faster. You need to put on some quick weight/strength, run a cycle of AAS. You're feeling a little drowsy on race day morning, or before that fifth long race of the day, pop some ephedrine.
As for when you say: " I think it is simply awful that so many people abuse drugs and harm their bodies and minds by doing so." There's use and abuse. One is fine, one is not. Steroids are a perfect example. Proper use: Fine. Improper use/Abuse: Get ready for some negative, harmful side effects.
"As 'successful' drug use has no impact of competitive sailing, I see no reason to single out drug use as a forbidden behavior among competitive sailors."
Are you talking about all drugs, or just a certain category, like recreational drugs? If you're talking about all drugs, then I not only completely disagree with that statement, but believe it to be wholly incorrect.
Obviously my personal prejudices get in the way of a passion free opinion about drugs.
Over the last many years, I have watched the endless destruction of lives and reputations due to insane drug laws. People die every single day because someone somewhere managed to convince enough other people that certain drugs should be banned while others should be advertised on the television.
Pot is on the banned performance enhancing drugs list. I know pretty well what pot does to people. I couldn't care less who smokes or eats it and I totally object to the fact our government spends money making that which would otherwise be a weed by the side of the road into a cherished substance worth murdering to obtain.
I know full well the ONLY reason pot is illegal is there are literally millions of people who currently make a living in the businesses related to it's illegality.
I know pot is absolutely not going to help anybody win a sailboat race. it robs the mind of the ability to perform many valuble functions necessary for success on a racing sailboat.
But. because the people who make a living enforcing pot laws are so very very powerful, the sailing community is willing to test people for the presence of marijuana and ban those who use it from sailboat racing.
and as a result, people in blood labs, lawyers, judges, prison builders, prison managers. prison guards, bail bondsmen, pawn shop owners, house alarm installers, cops, gun manufacturers, gun store owners, and a myrad of others make more money.
Just as nobody will ever ban alcohol, caffiene, or nicotine because the industries selling those products are way too powerful. Nobody will legalize other drugs because those who make money on the "drug wars" are too powerful.
I am offended that the sport of sailing is participating in the grand nonsensical political crap that is "The War On Drugs"
It isn't about whether the drugs enhance performance. It is all about who pays the decision makers to side with them.
Stimulants don't help you calmly sit still while your boat ghosts along . I have sailed with people who were smoking pot, drinking beer, sipping whiskey, and even snorting lines of coke.
NONE of those people has found himself on the same boat with me for a second race.
I am well convinced most of the drugs mentioned on the lists are detrimental to sailboat racing performance or simply used to help sick sailors get well.
It isn't purely about performance enhancement. There is nothing wrong with ingesting things that help with your performance. Drinking water and chocolate milk are great performance enhancers.
It isn't about the expense. Coaches and gyms cost a fortune.
Nobody does Visene to win a sailboat race. Nobody shoots up some heroin to win a sailboat race. Nobody does steroids to win a sailboat race. Nobody saves up a bunch of blood and reinserts in in his veins to win a sailboat race.
That lack of usage has nothing to do with rules against using the stuff. Lots of sailors cheat and in a myriad of ways. .
They don't do it because It doesn't work!!
The entire drug issue is political and related not to the health of competitors or the survival of the game but to the health of bank accounts and the viability of political candidates. I would prefer our otherwise non impacted by drug use sport stay out of it.
I am sick and tired of the convenience and desire for control of the enforcement community taking higher position than the well being of the competitors and the game we play. Until somebody can set up a series of sailboat races and show us how the crackheads with bodies by HGH win time and again over those who only occasionally drink a margarita, I want the sailing community to refuse to participate in this absurd effort to blood test athletes for substances whose use and abuse is not related to our game.
I think you may still be missing the whole idea.
Interesting discussion. Not Laser Worlds to the best of my knowledge.
My overly simplistic understanding of anti-doping and sailing... ISAF, as the international governing body, specifies the rules regarding anti-doping in our sport which is, as I understand it, driven primarily by the Olympics. ISAF have dedicated quite a bit of space on their website to anti-doping and you can find a lot of interesting stuff there. Anyway, ISAF sets the regulations and then leaves compliance, and enforcement, to the MNA's (e.g. US Sailing and CYA). In the US, US Sailing defers anti-doping compliance to the US Anti-doping Agency, giving them the responsibility for testing. I believe the equivalent organization in Canada is the Canadian Center for Ethics in Sport (CCES), handling anti-doping for the Canadian Yachting Association. In both cases, these organizations are responsible for anti-doping compliance across all sports, so this ensures all athletes are treated consistently, within these two countries.
An interesting rundown of banned substances, and some limited reasoning behind why they are banned, can be found in this article on the CBC website. I would certainly agree that the reasoning for banning "Cannainoids" is a bit on the weak side:
Note from this article, however, that WADA gives MNA's the freedom to choose to ban Cannabinoids or not. My guess is that they follow the laws in their respective country.
I would agree that doping in sailing in North America has not shown itself to be a problem and anti-doping rules seem more hindrance than help (even I was once chosen for testing at a major Laser event!). On the other hand, I have been told that this IS a problem in sailing, in some other regions of the world. Given the high level of physical fitness required to sail at the Olympic level, and the financial rewards to be gained by some sailors in some countries, that is probably not surprising.
In the end I think this is another of the necessary inconveniences that we have to put up with as a double Olympic Class.
By the way, caffeine was on WADA's list but was removed. The reasoning:
Separate names with a comma.